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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #21  
Old 23-11-2017, 12:24 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
You will find people want to take positions and do so by agreeing and disagreeing, which isn't ever going to address the subject. It will only escalate into right and wrong, because the position relies completely on being right. At the bottom of this is a power game where the one who is right is the knower who wants to influence others with knowledge. That is at the heart of all the contention. You're just getting sucked into the game, and just need a quick shot of dgaf. teehee.

Agreed but if the TA trolls here abuse people like Tony Parsons by associating them with the often criminal activity of cults, that wll end discussion of NA here which is of course thier objective. I'm not taking them on single handed when there is no moderation here against such abuse. If others are concerned about ending such abuse then maybe the differences between TA and NA can be clarified for the benefit of seekers, but not if that concern is not present here.
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  #22  
Old 23-11-2017, 12:35 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
Hello Iamit,

I have to say once more that this now evident obsession with abuse seems a bit far fetched, and an unfortunate distraction from real discussion.
But ok...

I will concede that articles which associate Neo-Advaita proponents with cult behavior that is criminal as a matter of fact, may in some cases indicate poor reasoning, lame assumptions, confused thinking, intellectual dishonesty, or outright irresponsibility. However, by some of those very same criteria, Tony Parsons himself, by what I've read, could then be considered guilty of “abuse” of Traditional Advaita accordingly.

Therefore, I have now achieved “mutual understanding” with Tony Parsons (LOL).


~ J



Pleased to hear that Joytir. You will have difficulty finding quotes from Tony Parsons where he is abusive. He can be watched and read on line for anyone interested in finding that out. Lets hear the results of that exploration.
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  #23  
Old 23-11-2017, 05:18 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Yes there is a big deal about the limitations of mind. It gets such a bad press, but it is mind that does the seeking, gathering data from here and there in the attempt to end the search. Why it has to be so shocking that it might therefore be mind that resonates is lost somewhere in the predjudice against mind. Afterall it knows the ego (character) it has created and what may be acceptable to it as a solution to the search.

And of course it must be said from a nondual perspective, both TA and NA, that it is not mind that is regarded as dodgy, but Oneness manifesting as mind:)

Oneness has such a sense of humour. I wonder what 'it' makes of the issue mind good or bad when each is the other in the nondual story (Both TA and NA).

Hilarious:)
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  #24  
Old 23-11-2017, 11:37 AM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
I am glad you got drawn into this TA vs NA situation.
Not wanting to put you into a box or a mold or ice with my expectations, but the way you explain, clarify things as you go along is so valuable for me, a complete novice to many terms used on these threads.

Hello Sentient

Ha ha. Yes, I’m certainly drawn in enough to comment on the validity of the argument that I’m not keen to be drawn in on. Glad that this is of some help.
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  #25  
Old 23-11-2017, 06:36 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Yes there is a big deal about the limitations of mind. It gets such a bad press, but it is mind that does the seeking, gathering data from here and there in the attempt to end the search. Why it has to be so shocking that it might therefore be mind that resonates is lost somewhere in the predjudice against mind. Afterall it knows the ego (character) it has created and what may be acceptable to it as a solution to the search.

It is not the mind which resonates with Oneness, it is consciousness. Identification with Oneness is not a mental state because mental states continually change, whereas identification is a permanent state. The mind is simply the tool of consciousness, and it is consciousness which drives the search.

Peace.
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  #26  
Old 23-11-2017, 08:34 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Further, on the topic of Tony Parsons, then, some people with experience:

"Neo-Advaita:

The teaching style consists of a meeting where the “teacher” answers any random questions that the crowd comes up with. There is no structure nor any knowledge communicated in a logical manner, only specific slogans and insights given by reacting to the questions of the audience.

The teachers are good stand-up comedians and can entertain a crowd very well. It is really fun to spend time in those meetings. The apparent reality – such as the individual seeker and physical laws – is usually consistently denied and the focus is on the one and only message: “There is only Oneness”.

Here are some example statements from Tony Parsons from the many meetings I have attended:

“This is all there is”
“I do not see any people here. There are no people.”
“There is only Oneness”
“In this meetings there is a certain energy that creates an openness in which the Open Secret message can be heard”
“And do not worry about enlightenment, if you die from old age there will only be oneness”
“If I just repeat: All is oneness, all day long I would run out of a bloody audience, which is why I have to vary it …”


Conclusion

Neo-Advaita is a comfortable, spiritual, stand-up comedy. Seekers get high on positive group energy, have fun and usually enjoy themselves – and this may last up to a couple of days after the meeting. There is nothing to say against that. The chances, however, that this path will help a seeker to understand his true nature with confidence are as high as is finding a needle in a haystack. It is a gamble at the roulette table. There is nothing to say against some fun time in spiritual Las Vegas with Neo-Advaita.

Comparing “Neo-Advaita“ with Vedanta is like comparing a one-page cartoon with an Encyclopedia. The cartoon can be real fun and may help find some answers but it is very limited and has no depth. The Vedanta Encyclopedia has been tested for several thousand years and has set many thousands of people free. The only reason of existence (raison d’être) for the Vedanta teaching is to set people free. It is setting people free as we speak and will continue to do so successfully in the future. My conclusion is that if the student and the teacher are qualified; there is only one way out with Vedanta: Liberation.[/b].

https://www.advaita-vision.org/neo-a...ional-vedanta/
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  #27  
Old 23-11-2017, 08:38 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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"Neo Advaita is not Advaita Vedanta and it is not the teachings of Ramana Maharshi either. Ramana merely used the language of Vedanta to explain his experience of Truth and said Be As You Are. Vedanta stops at mentally affirming the existence of the Self whereas Ramana counselled to go beyond the mind for Self realisation.

Who are you? Well, you'll never find out if you listen to this bunch of morons! The Neo Advaita trademarks are: Anyone can be enlightened (Apparently!) ... The "I" is still there after enlightenment (You can say that again with this lot!) ... You don't need a guru, you can do it yourself (So why do we need any of these idiots then?) ... Nothing exists and there's no sadhana: Nothing To Do (Except attend all their satsangs and give them lots of adulation and cash for their multiple DVDs, books, photographs and meditation cushions!)

Just for the record, Ramana taught that realising the Self is predestined and a matter of Grace. He said the "I" is totally gone after enlightenment and that the presence of an enlightened being is essential, until the Self is attained. And Ramana endorsed all paths, stating that sadhana depends on the individual.

Neo Advaita has hijacked and emasculated Ramana's Self realisation, exploiting it for its own ends. It has taken his Do Nothing instruction, which Ramana said was only for the advanced and perverted it to mean that absolutely NO sadhana is necessary. Anyone can "have" enlightenment NOW! No hassle, no effort: realisation before you've even got there.

Tony Parsons is the ringmaster of this circus and its most cogent spokesman. He is the prime mover in the European New Wave along with Karl Renz - both with their respective brands of bull**** humour to flesh things out. Tony has made a career out of a mythical Walk in the Park, which he defines as his Awakening experience. This didn't stop him from hanging out for years with the original Rajneesh (not his counterfeit copy!) Tony's clique indulge in a game of partisan one-upmanship. They are all desperate to join the so-called Awakening Club and dissenting voices are condemned to the gulag of "You don't get it, you're so dualist!" In this world, everyone including Ramana is deemed guilty of dualist speech and action. The logic behind this resembles the Marxist mindset-gone-mad: paranoia and cries of revisionism are fine-tuned with asinine comments, in what amounts to a kangaroo-court of self-appointed Non Dual Word Police. Tony's mantra is: "Vasanas, what vasanas? There is only this!" A superfluous wave of the hands then illustrates this great mystery (NOT!) All we are left with is the vacuous nature of Tony's smug bonhomie and his tired old jokes ..."

Curse of Neo Advaita
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  #28  
Old 23-11-2017, 08:47 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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"On this point, the towering sage of nonduality, Ramana Mahārshi (1879-1950), has strongly critiqued this confused mixing of levels and "misplaced advaita" by saying that advaita should NOT be applied to action, in the sense of non-discrimination between proper and improper behavior. The great Advaita master Siddharāmeshvar Mahārāj (1888-1936) and his famous disciple, the sage Nisargadatta Mahārāj (1896-1981), always taught that one must realize the Self "and behave accordingly," staying clear of desires, selfish behavior and anything else that binds one to the dreamlike samsāra-cycle of egoic rebirths according to the law of karma.

Yet one Western neo-advaitin has written, in the type of remark echoed repeatedly by other neo-advaitins:

“Once awakening happens, it is seen that there is no such thing as right or wrong.... All concepts of good or bad, karma or debt of any kind are products of an unawakened mind that is locked into time and the maintenance and reinforcement of a sense of father, mother and self.
(Tony Parsons)

To this we can only reply: Oh really? Then the Buddha, Nāgārjuna, the Chan-Zen-Son masters, Śaṅkara, Ramana Mahārshi, Siddharāmeshvar Mahārāj, Nisargadatta Mahārāj and many, many other great advaitins were all by this neo-advaitin definition quite unenlightened, because all of them taught that, on the conventional level, we must still be able to distinguish between wholesome and unwholesome actions, and be well aware of karmic consequences.

The Buddha, for one, often defined the disbelief in karmic consequences as that dangerous heresy of nihilism (uccheda-ditthi). Much of what is taught by neo-advaita (and postmodernist versions of Buddhism, for that matter) is clearly a form of the nihilist heresy, as defined by the Buddha. Ramana Mahārshi said, "It is true that we are not bound and that the real Self has no bondage. It is true that you will eventually go back to your Source. But meanwhile, if you commit sins, as you call them, you will have to face the consequences of such sins...."

Neo-Advaita or Pseudo-Advaita
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  #29  
Old 23-11-2017, 08:48 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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"There seems to be a new form of advaita, a nihilistic form of advaita, which has nothing to do with the true advaita. It is called neo-advaita. There are even "teachers" ; they are merely liars repeating the same {!#%@} over and over (You don't exist, You are not a separated person, Separation is an illusion, You can't do nothing about it, you have no free-will, You are hopeless, You have no self, Your existence is meaningless, The world is meaningless, and that this is only a dream that happens to no one, and you're dreaming. But there is no "you" separated from the wave. It is all just "life happening", seeing happens, talking happens...etc , etc) , like a cult and a form of brainwashing. ("teachers" like Lisa Cairns, Tony Parsons, Rupert Spira, Paul Smith, and others) Are the ones behind this cult."

"There seems to be a new form of advaita, a nihilistic form of advaita, which has nothing to do with the true advaita. It is called neo-advaita. There are even "teachers" ; they are merely liars repeating the same {!#%@} over and over (You don't exist, You are not a separated person, Separation is an illusion, You can't do nothing about it, you have no free-will, You are hopeless, You have no self, Your existence is meaningless, The world is meaningless, and that this is only a dream that happens to no one, and you're dreaming. But there is no "you" separated from the wave. It is all just "life happening", seeing happens, talking happens...etc , etc) , like a cult and a form of brainwashing. ("teachers" like Lisa Cairns, Tony Parsons, Rupert Spira, Paul Smith, and others) Are the ones behind this cult.

Skeptic about Neo-Advaita
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  #30  
Old 23-11-2017, 08:55 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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"AWAKENING FROM AWAKENING

I used to believe people like the UK spiritual teacher Tony Parsons who said that after awakening (which is seen as some kind of mysterious and rare non-event or shift in perspective), the personality won't change, and there won't necessarily be any more joy, intimacy or compassion in life. In fact, after awakening, you could still be suicidally depressed, or violent, or even a serial killer, they said!

At first, it felt like such a relief to hear this radical and shocking message - it made awakening sound so simple, so down to earth, so accessible, so... ordinary. "Before awakening I'm a jerk, after awakening I'm a jerk. And I'm allowed to be a jerk now because I'm liberated and nobody can touch me. Oh and by the way, there is no me and no choice. Jerkness just happens. So what. Who cares. Get over it, sad seeker." The ego celebrated - it now had carte blanche. No responsibility! No punishment! Free reign! Nobody here! Yippee! The search was over!


I've come to see that this "neo-Advaita" message, as it's now known, is very one-sided. It's partially true, exquisitely simple, but it's not by any means the full picture (nothing is!) and can be so damaging if mis-spoken or mis-heard or mis-used.


....

Once again, I return to Nisargadatta Maharaj's stunningly balanced and integrated formulation:

“Wisdom is knowing that I am nothing.
Love is knowing that I am everything.
Between the two my life flows.""

Awakening from Awakening
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