Will science ever accept?

[jimmymc25]

We don't die. Our bodies die.

We are eternal. immortal, universal & infinite.

Simple really.

[Busby]

Originally Posted by EdmundJohnstone

Will science ever accept spirituality in terms of souls and afterlife?

Will science ever accept objective verified proof? It seems that science doesen't accept at all subjective proof like reincarnations, NDE, mediums communication, even if they are verified and confirmed

Why doesen't it accept reincarnation verified evidence, NDE, and mediums? Can there be a hidden reason behind not admitting this?

Well, let's face it, science requires proof that tests, experiments and results be based upon facts which are repeatable and with the same outcome. Water boils at 100°C at sea level all over the world, this is repeatable and any variations to this can be shown to have a reason. You can't do this with metaphysics, NDEs, OBEs, synchronicities and all the rest.
Remember Uri Geller - he was tested all over the world and gained a wide acceptance from scientists everywhere but as he wasn't constant in what he did this led to gaping holes in his demonstrations and so there were plenty of people who only laughed at bent spoons.

Here's another one who left the scientific/medicinal world astounded but as it was obviously impossible it went no further.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tdnsRod9Zk

[guthrio]

Weareunity,

It just occurred to me that the presence of the "pinky purple figure" at the top of your excellent post, is the perfect metaphor to answer the OP's excellent question. I am grateful to OP EdmundJohnstone posting a thread that pulled this strange answer from me:

The answer to not knowing how the figure "showed up" in your post is solved by gaining an understanding of how the Spiritual Forums' software causes your computer's operating system to add "smilies". (I've done this myself, BTW).

Similarly, the unexpected, and, as yet, unexplained, presence of the ultimate "non-smilie" in our collective experience, namely "death" would also be accepted by "science", if its practitioners understood the underlying "operating system" governing both the presence, and "seeming" absence of Life in our collective experience.

....with sufficient rigor that could withstand the verifiable, repeatable, and quantifiable requirements their paradigm requires.

The 1st reference describes an infinite operating environment in which these scientists would be testing and revising their knowledge, experientially....in the ONLY WAY that truly matters, with verifiable, repeatable, quantifiable EVIDENCE! The 2nd reference shows the miraculous nature of this evidence shown in its true light.

However, the 3rd reference, which comes with a warning, shows the limitations of scientists' "own" perceptual apparatus that they have not even begun to sufficiently understand in this "earthly" operating system....much less attempting exploration what is "perceived" in an infinite environment.

Now to apply the metaphor of the "pinky purple figure". If the time since you last opened your post has not exceeded 600 minutes (if I'm not mistaken), you can return to your post, click on "edit", then touch the cursor to the mysterious, unknown figure, and click "cut"....and then save the edit to your post (which will show the figure as removed). That is, in this earthly version of Spiritual Forums, operating its software.

The "Spiritual Realms" described in the 1st reference....has its own "operating environment" (so to speak), the exact science of which is scientifically demonstrated as verifiable, repeatable, and quantifiable by a spiritually adept Master practitioner, Sri Yukteswar, who obviously learned exactly how to do so in his earthly sojourn, from yet another Master versed in its use. See how in reference 1, Chapter 43, The Resurrection of Sri Yukteswar and in reference 2, Chapter 30, The Law of Miracles.

"As will we all"!...after learning how to do so for ourselves....just as operating this Spiritual Forum's software to "unknowingly" add, or "knowingly" remove any "pinky purple figures" awaiting our exploration.

If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.
Dr. Wayne Dyer

Certainly science can accept the evidence of that, right?

Reference: https://www.ananda.org/autobiography/#chap43 The Resurrection of Sri Yukteswar

Reference: https://www.ananda.org/autobiography/#chap30 The Law of Miracles

Reference:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqnEGu8VF8Y This comes with a warning!

[weareunity]

Hello guthrio.

First of all. Thanks for taking an interest in the thoughts which I attempted to describe/explain in response to the thread title. I find it difficult to find the words to convey what come to mind as powerful notions--no way thinking or suggesting that these notions are anything other than the result of personal pondering. Also I know the pondering often goes beyond my limited knowledge--hence the difficulty in finding the words to explain. (Im finding it difficult to even explain this !) . My reference in the post to a "moving/moveable interface between what is currently understood as objective and what is not". is an example of an attempt to describe in words something about what little I know regarding the "strangeness" of material/process behaviour in the exceedingly small. I conclude that perhaps perversely I prefer thinking to reading/learning.--this may come from a lifetime of practical DIY partly out of interest but also as a result of being--happily--quite poor and not able to afford much new or pay for others to repair.

Secondly, and possibly as a consequence of the same DIY lifestyle, I wasn't joking, I really do have big hands. Put together with relying on a small touch screen to post stuff, and seeing the proximity of the reply box to the icon illustrations, it seems more likely to me---with much emphasis that this is just my opinion---that a finger or thumb other than the one I use to prod with has inadvertently brushed across the pinky purply persons little circle and caused said pinky purply person to leap to the top of my post. Being almost entirely ignorant of the different meanings which each of these icons is designed to convey is also a bit of a setback, for goodness knows what message I have sent out.

All the best guthrio. petex

[NoOne]

Science and Spirituality have started to converge in the last century or so, they are not so different from each other any more. This is particularly true of physics, which has taken a lot of inspiration from Vedic thought and came up with ideas such as Quantum Mechanics and String Theory. Heisenberg and Von Weizsacker in particular are prime examples of this.

If you read someone like Michio Kaku for instance, who is one of the founders of string theory, many of his ideas confirm the existence of spiritual realms and experiences, rather than deny them.

The sort of mechanistic, rigid view of reality that imagines everything to be made of solid, unmovable blocks, is now a thing of the past in most scientific fields, with the notable exception of molecular biology, where people like Richard Dawkins come in.

These people apparently have never heard of the fact that there are no atoms or even particles, everything is basically just vibration in a fluidic medium that encompasses the whole universe. Their 18th century retarded way of thinking is holding biology and medicine in particular, back by centuries.

Despite all the evidence they will claim that acupuncture or energy healing doesn't work, even though it has been empirically proven time and time again that it does. These people continue to deny the existence of prana/chi, nadis/meridians because our current scientific instruments are too crude to directly detect these subtle energies, though there are indirect ways to detect their flow.

Once these scientists are dragged kicking and screaming out of the 18th century and into the 21st, massive advances will be made in the fields of medicine and biology in just a few short years. BTW, all of us have tremendous healing abilities, it's just that our rigid, materialistic brain programming prevents us from even seeing and detecting these energies, let alone use them to help ourselves and others.

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Hello guthrio.

First of all. Thanks for taking an interest in the thoughts which I attempted to describe/explain in response to the thread title. I find it difficult to find the words to convey what come to mind as powerful notions--no way thinking or suggesting that these notions are anything other than the result of personal pondering. Also I know the pondering often goes beyond my limited knowledge--hence the difficulty in finding the words to explain. (Im finding it difficult to even explain this !) . My reference in the post to a "moving/moveable interface between what is currently understood as objective and what is not". is an example of an attempt to describe in words something about what little I know regarding the "strangeness" of material/process behaviour in the exceedingly small. I conclude that perhaps perversely I prefer thinking to reading/learning.--this may come from a lifetime of practical DIY partly out of interest but also as a result of being--happily--quite poor and not able to afford much new or pay for others to repair.

Secondly, and possibly as a consequence of the same DIY lifestyle, I wasn't joking, I really do have big hands. Put together with relying on a small touch screen to post stuff, and seeing the proximity of the reply box to the icon illustrations, it seems more likely to me---with much emphasis that this is just my opinion---that a finger or thumb other than the one I use to prod with has inadvertently brushed across the pinky purply persons little circle and caused said pinky purply person to leap to the top of my post. Being almost entirely ignorant of the different meanings which each of these icons is designed to convey is also a bit of a setback, for goodness knows what message I have sent out.

All the best guthrio. petex

Thanks Weareunity,

Again, you've given me the perfect entrance to the answer that makes the most sense to the OP's question: Will science ever accept?

The answer is: DIY. That's how science has learned to accept evidence it can trust.

This is truly how we all learn, whether as correspondents on Spiritual Forums, or scientists in academic Symposiums, or gurus in infinite Realms....

...there is no substitute for Doing It Yourself (DIY), learning it yourself, realizing it yourself, overcoming it yourself, proving it yourself, or trusting in the infinite power of yourself.

"Big Hand" to you.

Again, Thanks! I needed that!

[FallingLeaves]

there is really no such thing as scientific 'proof'. At the end of the day it all boils down to what people will allow themselves to agree upon. Hm, wasn't that the most important thing about science as stated by the scientists anyway?

[Busby]

Each and every scientist no matter in which field he or she may be busy is in the end looking for an answer to the 'mystery' of life. Obviously no one is going to waste time on vague, fleeting, unrepeatable happenings or moments. Nor are they going to waste their time on peering into 'haunted houses' and all the other proffered proofs of life after death and so on.

The intelligence of people employed in scientific research is generally high, certainly higher than some of those incumbents I have seen who profess to be 'ambassadors' of the supernatural. We, that is those of us who like to include ourselves in the terminology 'spiritual' should maybe take a step back and try to be really objective.

Scientist (and non-scientists) have long been aware that the universe (or whatever you like to call it) has massive as yet not seen, experienced or described spaces or parts. We still know nothing as any scientist or researcher will admit. All philosophies have all achieved nothing, no 'truths' are visible, we have no idea.

What we do have is a personal empirical consciousness, one which we attempt to explain to our own satisfaction as not originating in the brain - and upon this we 'spiritual' people base our hopes. Those of us who have experienced OBEs or NDEs suggest that things aren't quite as they seem, this adds a little fuel to the fire burning inside.

Give science another say 20,000 years and maybe we'll have some sort of idea what life is all about.

[EdmundJohnstone]

Originally Posted by Busby

Each and every scientist no matter in which field he or she may be busy is in the end looking for an answer to the 'mystery' of life. Obviously no one is going to waste time on vague, fleeting, unrepeatable happenings or moments. Nor are they going to waste their time on peering into 'haunted houses' and all the other proffered proofs of life after death and so on.

The intelligence of people employed in scientific research is generally high, certainly higher than some of those incumbents I have seen who profess to be 'ambassadors' of the supernatural. We, that is those of us who like to include ourselves in the terminology 'spiritual' should maybe take a step back and try to be really objective.

Scientist (and non-scientists) have long been aware that the universe (or whatever you like to call it) has massive as yet not seen, experienced or described spaces or parts. We still know nothing as any scientist or researcher will admit. All philosophies have all achieved nothing, no 'truths' are visible, we have no idea.

What we do have is a personal empirical consciousness, one which we attempt to explain to our own satisfaction as not originating in the brain - and upon this we 'spiritual' people base our hopes. Those of us who have experienced OBEs or NDEs suggest that things aren't quite as they seem, this adds a little fuel to the fire burning inside.

Give science another say 20,000 years and maybe we'll have some sort of idea what life is all about.

Then you have physicists (scientists) like Sean Carroll stating "The fundamentals laws of Physics underlying daily life are well understood and there is no possibility for an afterlife regarding spirits to occur "

What do you have to say about this?

[Busby]

Originally Posted by EdmundJohnstone

Then you have physicists (scientists) like Sean Carroll stating "The fundamentals laws of Physics underlying daily life are well understood and there is no possibility for an afterlife regarding spirits to occur "

What do you have to say about this?

There are plenty of scientists out there who have all different kinds of views, one voice is simply one of many.
But yes, we have to assume, and to a good extent it has been shown that the fundamental laws of physics are universal. A litre of pure water on a planet millions of light years away will weigh one Kilogram if the planet has the same mass as ours. Nor would one be able to walk on water.

There are also a significant number of scientists who refute evolution, who accept the idea of spiritual dimensions, who believe even in the Biblical God. Scientists are human too. From wherever our fears, frustrations, passions, and further non-physical forms may stem we are surrounded by them. By these natural human mental constructs we live our lives, constantly being blown and maybe battered by them. It is these mental constructs which, in the end, separate us from the animal kingdom.

Scientific discoveries, proven by various appearances and measurements show us that the universe (that is what we call this place in which we are individually in a state of awareness) show us that we have not yet seen most of what is really out there. Maybe we perceive about 5% of what really exists but how should we even know that? We do however know sufficient to have a civilisation that is built of many scientific discoveries giving a basis on which more is learned and used every day. Which is more than can be said of those of us who like to call ourselves 'spiritual' with being in any agreement whatsoever about what that is.

There is it seems only one real truth or reality, this truth is called you. You call this truth, this reality, 'me'. You know nothing else. You awaken each morning to yourself. When you look out into the world what you see is atomic structures some formed by nature and some formed by man. In reality they are all just bundles of energy as you and I are - what more can we desire than having our beliefs turned into forms? There are two planes of existence, one is physical the other is mental. The physical world appears as a solid world - if you fall off your bike you'll notice it. The mental world is that hidden reality, the one of imagination, beauty, love, of the above mentioned fears, frustrations and passions and of everything else. You and I have our roots in this magnifient place and are experiencing the joys and fears of having adapted a physical form a n d all its diversities.