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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #21  
Old 27-11-2018, 01:03 AM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Convolution
I've read Michael Newton's books. A couple of case studies in one of them allude to a separation in both intent, personality and consciousness between the immortal being (soul, spirit, etc) and the mortal (you and I, our consciousness), which I thought was a bit odd.

One of the passages of which I speak are in reference to this girl whose spirit caused her to fall [from a carriage?] and become crippled for life, which in turn would presumably lead her to study more and teach her parents about love, or so the account said.
It spoke of how the spirit waited until the human consciousness was playing in a precarious spot to influence it enough to trip and cause the accident. It implied they had separate will from one another. The implications for this would be at best puzzling and at worst a bit terrifying.

I'm addition, in one of the books there is also talk of parallel lives. If "I" am the spirit/soul consciousness that has chosen to reincarnate and go through a "veil of forgetfulness", how can there be two copies of me in different bodies at the same time? Who gets to have more influence as the observer and decision maker with will? Neither? What are the mechanics of that? Again, it implies that you and I, our consciousness, is the mortal vessel simply used by the spirit, which has its own agenda and will, and is aware of its many lives, past and present, able to influence them to achieve its goal of learning.
It's a bit disturbing, if the books are taken as valid.

Has anyone else reasoned through the repercussions of those things and find them to be valid? What does that say about our true nature, and the nature of the relationship between you, the conscious observer, and the supposed spiritual immortal being learning at your expense?

I read Newton's books sometimes ago. I believe that his afterlife and reincarnation models have weaknesses, like those you highlighted.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #22  
Old 27-11-2018, 02:19 AM
Convolution Convolution is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
I read Newton's books sometimes ago. I believe that his afterlife and reincarnation models have weaknesses, like those you highlighted.
Makes sense. What do you think is the most accurate representation of the underlying mechanics of life we have? (I'd guess it would be something close to what NDErs report, since that seems like it's the closest source of potentially empirical evidence we've thus far discovered)

I also just read 'The Invisible Choir' by Tessa Lynne, which pushes the same idea of human consciousness existing separately from a somewhat parasitic spiritual conscious individual.
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  #23  
Old 27-11-2018, 02:40 AM
EmergingPath EmergingPath is offline
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Another interesting book that you might find interesting is “Many lives, many Masters” by Brian Weiss. I went to a seminar of his in 2009 in Seattle where he lead a large group of us through a past life regression. Very interesting.
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  #24  
Old 27-11-2018, 02:53 AM
Convolution Convolution is offline
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Thank you for the suggestion! I've read of Brian Weiss... but I've also read of some spiritual people discounting it. Do you think Brian would have the most accurate model, in your opinion, of what the afterlife mechanics are like?
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  #25  
Old 27-11-2018, 03:08 AM
EmergingPath EmergingPath is offline
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He may, but I resonate much more with Michale Newton’s books - Journey Of Souls and Destiny of Souls.

As others pointed out though, those that seek assistance from a Hypnotherapist are not the more advanced souls, so the cases in his book are from younger/less developed souls. So it’s kind of like reading the first couple of books in a series that ends in the middle
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  #26  
Old 27-11-2018, 03:24 AM
Convolution Convolution is offline
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Makes sense, though I can also see how even some older souls may need some guidance once in a while, if they have chosen a life challenge up to their level.
But as I pointed out, I think there are some parts in the book where the information provided alludes to this clear distinction between human consciousness and spiritual/soul consciousness as being two separate beings altogether, one mortal (presumably), the other immortal. Michael himself, in his understanding of the information he provided, overall, did not seem to ascribe to that. He seemed to believe that we, humans, are truly spirits having this conscious experience here, as humans. One and the same.
What do you think about that?
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  #27  
Old 27-11-2018, 04:46 AM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Convolution
Makes sense. What do you think is the most accurate representation of the underlying mechanics of life we have? (I'd guess it would be something close to what NDErs report, since that seems like it's the closest source of potentially empirical evidence we've thus far discovered)

I also just read 'The Invisible Choir' by Tessa Lynne, which pushes the same idea of human consciousness existing separately from a somewhat parasitic spiritual conscious individual.

In a few words ... I believe that we are dream characters in the dreams our higher selves dream. The important implication is that when we die it feels like we are waking up to the consciousness of our higher selves. It feels exactly how we feel about us in our dreams. In the afterlife we aren't anymore who we are now.

I believe that all anthropomorphic models of the afterlife are incorrect.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #28  
Old 27-11-2018, 04:55 AM
Convolution Convolution is offline
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But do you believe your 'higher self' is the same consciousness or a different one? Will your point of consciousness get lost and diluted in it?

If they are one and the same, then you maintain your self in the transition. Otherwise you simply get diluted back like an ink drop dispersing in the ocean, and lost your free will altogether. Which do you think?

Also, at what point do you think that transition is made? After the life review? NDErs report feeling like the same person/individual immediately after death, after the tunnel, and during the life review.
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  #29  
Old 27-11-2018, 05:13 AM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Convolution
But do you believe your 'higher self' is the same consciousness or a different one? Will your point of consciousness get lost and diluted in it?

If they are one and the same, then you maintain your self in the transition. Otherwise you simply get diluted back like an ink drop dispersing in the ocean, and lost your free will altogether. Which do you think?

Also, at what point do you think that transition is made? After the life review? NDErs report feeling like the same person/individual immediately after death, after the tunnel, and during the life review.

During regressions, I experienced dying and crossing into the afterlife. It felt exactly as I feel when I wake up: I leave behind my dream world, and I wake up to myself. No tunnel, no life review, no humanoid forms around, just a point of consciousness, an essence, that just remembered who it is, and cares little about the dream that woke up from. I could also compare that to the sensation of pulling your face out of water after snorkeling.

Those who have very strong attachments to the Earthly life, and / or strong beliefs, go through a transition period in which they either don't know they died, or believe to have reached the promised heaven or hell, until they eventually fully wake up. I haven't experienced that in my regressions.
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #30  
Old 27-11-2018, 05:27 AM
Convolution Convolution is offline
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I always find that so fascinating in NDE accounts. How can someone's body die, and they don't realize they are deceased, despite going straight through walls, not getting seen nor heard by others, and seeing themselves in bed. The only conclusion I got to is that it's a different consciousness that then imparts that memory back to the body, once it returns. Perhaps there is another obvious way to explain this clear disconnect with the human consciousness, but I'm not sure what it is. Any thoughts?
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