Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Science & Spirituality

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 30-04-2020, 01:40 PM
Lorelyen
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn_is_a_play
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it.

I can see that you really want to know about the workings of the human mind!

You have worked yourself with reading literature on a plethora of subjects from neuroscience, spirituality etc.. Thereby with this knowledge create a lens through which you try to understand what is going on with “you”.


Simply put, you want to know who you “are”!?

Books, people, give you explanations.
You could have experienced psychedelics(but it fades away like any dream).
You could have carefully thought out/or casually thought out explanations, perhaps tried meditation, contemplation, to understand who you “are”.

You feel that the simplistic mystical explanations are safe to hold on to and you rely on them. But deep down you are not satisfied. You feel that whatever you know is incomplete. Being incomplete you look to the future, hoping for completion, wholeness and an end to this uncertainty!
Until then, you go where the streams take you. And now it has brought you here, to this moment…
There is no need for one to say anything...
It’s your life. You will continue dreaming to be physical or spiritual , to be uncertain, to be seeking and to be knowing.
I'll put you in the picture as succinctly as I can. Although I took an interest in the nervous and endocrine systems though biology lessons at school I returned recently to "amateur" neuroscience in the hope of debunking a lot of what seemed to be fake spirituality - mainly from observing how many (clearly) vulnerable people here were conned by spiritual snake oil on the web...Twin flame matchmakers at $400 per throw. Purleeeze!
Through family influences I was also fascinated with "systems" (as a theoretical and practical subject) as it pertained to the ecology of which we're a part so some interest in neuroendocrinology seemed inevitable.

It isn't that "I want to know who I am," as much as (like most seekers) knowing I was the product of social conditioning, expectations, suppression and so on. In short I wasn't driving my own life, amplified by an education in semiotics and a brief pass through marketing, the tactics of which utterly depend on people not knowing themselves at all. That wasn't going to be me. No books entailed. It evolved more by doing than reading. On meeting certain people through my family I learned a few techniques, could be classed as spiritual (well tried, centuries old) to declutter myself of illusion and delusion. With progress I assumed command of my own life and felt far more at ease with the refinements. I could pay lip service to the system of things while being independent of it.

I think the spiritual aims of many are about finding out who one is supposed to be and achieving that as one reaches the end of ones days here.

But, like I say, my spirituality is my life and vice versa. I maintain an interest in the non-physical as being a part of that. A mix of Hermeticism and Vodou gnosticism; maybe touches of Shinto, that's where it's at.
  #12  
Old 01-05-2020, 02:03 AM
Rah nam Rah nam is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,348
  Rah nam's Avatar
Quote:
In my mind everything of the brain & bodily senses AND the spiritual body, are irrelevant in regards to consciousness. Because consciousness does not originate within the brain nor the spiritual body.




Very accurate, but either we know it or we don't.
__________________
Hallelujah to all my brethren.
Rah nam
  #13  
Old 01-05-2020, 05:51 AM
Dawn_is_a_play Dawn_is_a_play is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 52
  Dawn_is_a_play's Avatar
Thank you for playing :)))

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyen
I'll put you in the picture as succinctly as I can. Although I took an interest in the nervous and endocrine systems though biology lessons at school I returned recently to "amateur" neuroscience in the hope of debunking a lot of what seemed to be fake spirituality - mainly from observing how many (clearly) vulnerable people here were conned by spiritual snake oil on the web...Twin flame matchmakers at $400 per throw. Purleeeze!
Through family influences I was also fascinated with "systems" (as a theoretical and practical subject) as it pertained to the ecology of which we're a part so some interest in neuroendocrinology seemed inevitable.

It isn't that "I want to know who I am," as much as (like most seekers) knowing I was the product of social conditioning, expectations, suppression and so on. In short I wasn't driving my own life, amplified by an education in semiotics and a brief pass through marketing, the tactics of which utterly depend on people not knowing themselves at all. That wasn't going to be me. No books entailed. It evolved more by doing than reading. On meeting certain people through my family I learned a few techniques, could be classed as spiritual (well tried, centuries old) to declutter myself of illusion and delusion. With progress I assumed command of my own life and felt far more at ease with the refinements. I could pay lip service to the system of things while being independent of it.

I think the spiritual aims of many are about finding out who one is supposed to be and achieving that as one reaches the end of ones days here.

But, like I say, my spirituality is my life and vice versa. I maintain an interest in the non-physical as being a part of that. A mix of Hermeticism and Vodou gnosticism; maybe touches of Shinto, that's where it's at.

{One is aware of this static/psuedo spirituality that wriggles around with appauling vanity, it only chatters, postpones activity - "As processions passing in the road cannot achieve anything themselves yet still obstruct others, so these men merely process through the universe, led by the pleasures of the body"}.


A whisk of air carry the flame and brighten the skies; A droplet holding the earth safe in its dark!


I see you now!!! Ah. This is what you mean when you speak about yourself “being" spiritual(doing the spirit).

“O son, how many bodies have we to pass through, how many bands of demons, through how many series of repetitions and cycles of the stars, before we hasten to the One alone?”

Simply put - to uncover “the one” , by focussing energy unto, to balance(push away or pull into – churning) the Kami/Ioa. Removing illusion, allowing light, ascend in time towards the origin.

{It Certainly begins with the fall!
Hence double ,
Sing, dance, cry and laugh
Direct energies
Attain the lost
Rise to the heavens
Govern destiny
Experience the split &
Emerge beyond
Follow the will &
Uncover the One}.

I m glad that there is no need for reconciliation because there has been no separation. If it was, if it is, if it will be – it was, is and will be but a play to uncover that which is hidden from plain sight.
  #14  
Old 01-05-2020, 06:25 AM
neil neil is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ♡AUSTRALIA♡
Posts: 1,466
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah nam
Very accurate, but either we know it or we don't.

Smiles...
Rah nam, in saying this below that I have quoted, what is it that you are saying. It seems to me that you are suggesting that it is mostly not a known amongst Earthlings.

Quote..."But either we know it or we don't"..Unquote.
  #15  
Old 01-05-2020, 07:38 AM
neil neil is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ♡AUSTRALIA♡
Posts: 1,466
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyen
Label them as you like. In ecological terms (since they rely on the ecology for subsistence/sustenance) I call them "just other entities in the ecological culture dish" (unless of course you're saying that they don't eat physical food or dress in physical clothes, or don't have bodily coitus to reproduce, etc.).


Good luck with that one! (I had a recent discussion with someone elsewhere in the forum about just this subject and it brought the topic to a halt. So best not to elaborate here). Except to ask...where do you think individual consciousness comes from? And please show some tangible evidence.

Thanks.

As i said, individual consciousness comes "originates" from within the spiritual Soul'self ie:- US.

And Lorelyen, you want me to give you some tangible evidence.
Of course I can not give you any evidence. And yet no scientist of the Earth could give you evidence that it does not originate from within the spiritual Soul'self.
Though, i literally have had years of, & still do have, phenomenal moment by moment experiences that gives me good reason to understand that it originates from within the spiritual Soul'self.

A person could investigate what happens when a person effects an out of body experience.

In the instant that an OBE is effected, the brain literally becomes unconscious..."UNCONSCIOUS".
Because all consciousness is out of & away from the body.
because consciousness is of the spiritual Soul'self, & the spiritual Soul'self, is what is "out of body" during an OBE.

Oh & Ps..Go ahead & elaborate as much as you would like.
  #16  
Old 01-05-2020, 09:28 AM
Lorelyen
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil
As i said, individual consciousness comes "originates" from within the spiritual Soul'self ie:- US.

Oh & Ps..Go ahead & elaborate as much as you would like.

No need. However you like to label "things" the best evidence we have is that consciousness is a brain process. We know where things happen but not a lot about why they happen like they do. It doesn't stop people believing differently if they want as long as they know they'll have difficulty validating their notions. Not impossible always, just difficult.

Advances are made daily which is why I grumble about the price of keeping up to date even were time permitting.

It's how it is. If you want to dress it up in conventional "spiritual" terms, fine.
.
  #17  
Old 01-05-2020, 09:35 AM
Lorelyen
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn_is_a_play
{One is aware of this static/psuedo spirituality that wriggles around with appauling vanity, it only chatters, postpones activity - "As processions passing in the road cannot achieve anything themselves yet still obstruct others, so these men merely process through the universe, led by the pleasures of the body"}.
You'd make a poet, I'll give you that.
Lucky you have words to play with, aren't you?

Me? I'm perfect...apart from the conceit.

  #18  
Old 01-05-2020, 10:06 AM
Dawn_is_a_play Dawn_is_a_play is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 52
  Dawn_is_a_play's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyen
You'd make a poet, I'll give you that.
Lucky you have words to play with, aren't you?

Me? I'm perfect...apart from the conceit.


It's a reference from Hermetic literature, is all.
The English language befriended me when I was dreaming a boy.

"As processions passing in the road cannot achieve anything themselves yet still obstruct others, so these men merely process through the universe, led by the pleasures of the body." - The Way of Hermes p.32, 33

  #19  
Old 01-05-2020, 10:33 AM
neil neil is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ♡AUSTRALIA♡
Posts: 1,466
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyen
No need. However you like to label "things" the best evidence we have is that consciousness is a brain process. We know where things happen but not a lot about why they happen like they do. It doesn't stop people believing differently if they want as long as they know they'll have difficulty validating their notions. Not impossible always, just difficult.

Advances are made daily which is why I grumble about the price of keeping up to date even were time permitting.

It's how it is. If you want to dress it up in conventional "spiritual" terms, fine.
.

We live in a spiritual universe, not a physical universe. Galaxies & their contents Earthlings as well, all exist within the spiritual universe.

does a scientist understand that...no. do they understand that the earthly organic body/brain system is non sentient & non aware & non conscious...no.

Why, because they have not grasped, that there is more than the physical. Why, because they have not had experiences of the spiritual. Where as many untold spiritual & non spiritual minded persons have.

And i will trust my phenomenal spiritual experiences, over any beliefs of any scientist, that has not experienced anything of the spiritual.

In my first post, i was only giving anyone interested, another idea, an idea that conscious is not of the physical.
Though it did not seem to pique the interest of any enquiring minds...oh well not to worry.
  #20  
Old 01-05-2020, 12:35 PM
Lorelyen
Posts: n/a
 
Well, I won't get into another deep discussion as happened in another section recently and - as with these matters - ended inconclusively - two somewhat polar viewpoints entrenched. But some of what you say simply isn't "true" (using the word colloquially). Then this is my last call on this thread (unless you come up with false information!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil
does a scientist understand that...no. do they understand that the earthly organic body/brain system is non sentient & non aware & non conscious...no.
Of course they understand that the brain as a (dead) anatomical structure is non sentient and non aware! But we've moved on a bit since. As a living machine it's concerned with processing that leads to consciousness. Sure, we don't yet know the full story but we're getting there.
Hardly different from a computer switched off. It's dead, it isn't helping to run a business - but switch it on, apply inputs and the business comes alive.

We're well aware of the routes external stimuli take (the waves and particles impinging on our sense receptors) and how they're dealt with even before they becomes "conscious" but once it gets past the amygdala it becomes conscious and is stored in various ways.

Call that spiritual if you like (I'm inclined to anyway) but in practice, the act of you being what's commonly called "alive" and processing your way through your days, the processes are there in your brain. Otherwise, where else might they be? Ones hands? Ones stomach? What keeps you in homeostasis while you ponder these things? So unless you are truly a spirit with no material substance whatever (so you don't eat earthly food, sleep earthly sleep, communicate via voice, pen or keyboard in an established language etc) you have a body that will include a brain in terms of which science has observed - unless I'm a solipsist and imagining it all as the only consciousness in what's commonly called the universe.

Quote:
Why, because they have not grasped, that there is more than the physical. Why, because they have not had experiences of the spiritual. Where as many untold spiritual & non spiritual minded persons have.
Not at all. That's why it's still searching. It knows it hasn't all the answers. And the opposite is as valid: many untold spiritual and non spiritual minded persons have not made a meaningful enquiry into science and what it's about. They've simply denied it, shut it out because it might just kill a few sacred cows.

Quote:
And i will trust my phenomenal spiritual experiences, over any beliefs of any scientist, that has not experienced anything of the spiritual.
. Well, your spiritual experiences can't be classed as phenomena - noumena, maybe. Again you see scientists as static and unspiritual because they've been slowly debunking "spiritual" stuff. I compose music. I believe the channels through which that happens are spiritual because I see spirituality as a continuum of material life, hence talking about living being ones spirituality.

Quote:
In my first post, i was only giving anyone interested, another idea, an idea that conscious is not of the physical.
Though it did not seem to pique the interest of any enquiring minds...oh well not to worry.
But...on a forum, does that deny discussion? One enquiring mind has stepped forward.

By no means all but I believe (believe, note) a great deal of what's now classed as spiritual will one day be explained in material/atomic/subatomic terms. Just like 100 years ago a living cell was through to be a bag of chemicals bestowed with this mystical property called "life", we now know a lot more about cells and how they work.

So, thank you for the discussion.
pax luxque tecum
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums