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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #11  
Old 13-04-2019, 09:48 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair

There are usually two definitions of atheism, 1) a lack of belief in god(s), usually referring to personal deities, 2) a lack of belief in spirituality and the afterlife..

I think you'll find many people here who could be classified as atheists if we go by the first definition, but few people if we use the second definition..

Which one do you think is a taboo subject on these boards? Would love to hear your thoughts on it..

I think ''tolerance'' in our time usually means ''..allowing others to believe or do what they want provided they don't bother me with it..''
As a quick example, ''acceptance'' of homosexuality or transgenderism usually works on that premise. Of course it's just a refusal of conversation, which leads to a very narrow view on ''tolerance''. This attitude is more likely to bring more segregation and bottling things up..

The same could perhaps be said of atheism. People ''accept'' that others are atheist, but does that lead to an acceptance of potential conversation..?

.
For my own beliefs I don't have any about God/Gods/gods, I don't believe they exist but neither do I believe they don't; existence or not can't be proven. Atheism by any definition seems to be taboo although I think your second definition s bordering on nihilism rather than atheism but then that's just quibbling on semantics. I'm not sure nihilists would frequent these hallowed boards anyway.

In the past atheism has attracted some very bad press and being honest I've shied away from such conversations because people would rather stick with their misconceptions and throw stones rather than discuss atheism with an atheist. Being honest, much of it borders on veiled discrimination and often there's only dialogue between theists on atheism. So, no acceptance of conversation between the theists and the atheists - who do God's work I might add. However, things change but I'm not holding my breath while I await the pleasant surprise.

I can understand the difficulty with the conversation on homosexuality or transgenderism if there is no baseline of personal experience, because it's difficult to have an honest conversation based on what you've heard or read. It just becomes the conversation on opinion without any objectivity. I've had those conversations but I'll admit they were difficult for me to understand, not having gone through it myself. What it does so though is give at least some understanding of how the person might be the way they are, being discriminated because of being different can cross the barriers of differences.
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  #12  
Old 13-04-2019, 09:52 AM
Lorelyen Lorelyen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petey
I would predict that religion will always be around. Christianity is dying off in the West, but Islam is taking off in the East. It seems that religion takes hold wherever there is social inequality. Once a society reaches a certain point of general satisfaction with their material existence, religion becomes less useful.
Not so sure about that. It took off 1400 years ago and quickly became deeply embedded because (as says Ayatollah after Ayatollah) it's a system of government which means a system of control - with some heavy and cruel penalties for disobedience. For a western woman it's oppressive given than Christendom eventually gave women freedoms denied Islamic women who are effectively slaves: at every age they are owned by a man whose rules they must obey. It's a system that works in Islamic countries because those rules are basically formalised in scripture and the men must provide.

It's persisted for that reason, I suspect. The Koran should be read to understand what it expects of its followers. If you're a follower but decide to give it up, you're apostate - and the Koran spells out the punishment for that.
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  #13  
Old 13-04-2019, 10:58 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird
Leave the religious conflicts and war alone. People will always look for conflicts is in the human nature, look at the LGBTQ conflicts. Diversity in religion as well, seem to have a lot of gods but they converge and point out to the same creator (God, Allah, Shiva are all the same God with different interpretation). The religion is just a pretext to start these, aside from that conflicts I don't believe that religion did any harm, and as the others have commented it comes down to the POV of each person. Most conflicts were started by abrahamic religions. Take Cambodia for example, an undeveloped country with 97% Budhhists they seem to live peacefully with faith, same with Philippines but they are mostly Roman-Catholic. Now take France, developed country most without faith. Take In general seems to be outdated and fade away, I wonder what will happen in the future. I see religion keeps people united in communities unless they don't start conflicts and also helps with optimism, faith and passing of the dead
Just because a country or person doesn't believe in God/Gods it doesn't mean they don't have faith or anything else that is often deemed the sole domain of religion. Have you spoken to anyone from France lately? I can understand where Macron is coming from, because encouraging a country to become atheist actually has quite a few benefits over the country being theistic - and no it doesn't mean they have a lack of faith. Perhaps the idea is that there's one less volatile reason to cause conflict. It's not so long ago that I was having a very in-depth Spiritual conversation with someone from France.


As to whether or not Buddhism is a religion or philosophy is still very much under debate, but then Buddhism has a very different history and comes from very different roots. It's not until you start looking deeper into the history of the Abrahamic religions that they start coming into cultural and historical context. Over six million people alone in Syria are refugees, not to mention what's happening in a few African states and all in the name of religion. Modern-day Britain has gone straight back to the Middle Ages, where the rich lived well and off the backs of the poor people. This is supposedly a Christian country. According a to a few of my friends in the Philippines the culture there is far more towards community and helping each other out, and often not because of religion.


As an atheist I put my faith in myself and the people around me and not in some archetype of the collective unconsciousness. I don't start conflicts and understand the passing over of the dead, I was a working medium for quite a while and still do the occasional reading. Those are not the sole domain of the theists. Communities are formed by human nature as much as wars are so that sword cuts both ways and people have optimism, faith and help each other out with the passing of the dead because they're people.
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  #14  
Old 13-04-2019, 12:49 PM
Moonglow Moonglow is offline
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Hello,

At its foundation religion is Spiritual teachings.

The differences I view are that the major religions ( Christianity, Islam, Judism, Some Buhddist sects, some Hindu sects,, Yoga and others I may not know) seem to follow a designated Master/teacher/Holy person and have thier rituals/practices. As far as I can gather.

Religious practices are very specific.

There are tenants teachings that are established to follow.
The teachings follow scriptures of some kind.
There are rituals/practices to follow.
There are a set belief system to practice with a goal to bring protection and be in God's graces.
There is a God(s) of some kind.
These are just some very general traits with in religion, as I far as I can come up with.

Spirituality, in some circles, seem to be a mix bag a various teachings, philosophies, and practices.

It comes off to me generally used as a umbrella term. Meaning it can cover a vast range of practices and belief.

At its core spirituality is exploring and/or becoming in touch with ones divine/energetic nature and nature itself.

In general spirituality has its beliefs, faith in something, practices, and teachings passed down through the ages.

It does not have a set organization of its own, generally. It seems both individual and group oriented.
I don't think any wars have been fought over it, lol. Although the many branches that have sprung from some core beliefs seem to have and still have thier conflicts.

Spirituality, for me, is hard to peg down. For it is the core basis of many religions, philosophies, practices, and beliefs and the many branches of such. Thes can form into a way of living and what forms into organized followings and beliefs.

I don't think Religion/Spirituality are outdated at thier foundations. How they are used and blended seem to change a bit.

As long as there is need/desire to understand ourselves there will be Spiritual practices of some kind. May not be as we are accustomed to, but still seem to be exploring our origins in some form or another.

Went on a bit here, but just my thoughts on this.
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  #15  
Old 13-04-2019, 02:51 PM
ImthatIm ImthatIm is offline
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Love has no religion.
Love shall never die.
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  #16  
Old 13-04-2019, 04:41 PM
Lorelyen Lorelyen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonglow
Hello,

At its foundation religion is Spiritual teachings.

The differences I view are that the major religions ( Christianity, Islam, Judism, Some Buhddist sects, some Hindu sects,, Yoga and others I may not know) seem to follow a designated Master/teacher/Holy person and have thier rituals/practices. As far as I can gather.

Religious practices are very specific.
That's the problem as I see it. Someone has an illuminating idea. Claims it'll solve the problems of humanity and they're closer to their deity than their followers; then tell you what to believe and how to show you believe it. The scope for interpretation is usually limited.

It compares with the "teachings" I encountered which were: Your path is always your own. You must find it. I can show you some tools and ways you can use them to help. Then you can invent your own. It's up to you."

The hidden never stands still. It would stagnate if it did, become a set of routines.
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  #17  
Old 13-04-2019, 06:18 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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What is "dated" and what is "outdated" are moot concepts for anybody who believes in or lives in "the eternal present" or in "the NOW". I always love the backstepping that spiritual people do when one belief is in direct conflict with another.

Religion isn't all about war mongering in the name of a God...it's also amusing how people tend to overgeneralise towards the more fanatic and fringe element. If anything, religion is an institution created for those of similar faith to be in the company of like minded individuals..nothing more, nothing less.

However, society has a knack for discrediting a whole institution - believing that the ONLY religions which really "matter" are the Abrahamic ones (seeing as how they are the ones with the worst track record) and create a whole anti-religion campaign all wrapped up in a neat little package and marketed towards a gullible society...which doesn't include the 1.3 billion Hindus living on the Indian Subcontinent, nor the 0.5 billion Buddhists living there and elsewhere either...
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  #18  
Old 13-04-2019, 06:19 PM
Moonglow Moonglow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyen
That's the problem as I see it. Someone has an illuminating idea. Claims it'll solve the problems of humanity and they're closer to their deity than their followers; then tell you what to believe and how to show you believe it. The scope for interpretation is usually limited.

It compares with the "teachings" I encountered which were: Your path is always your own. You must find it. I can show you some tools and ways you can use them to help. Then you can invent your own. It's up to you."

The hidden never stands still. It would stagnate if it did, become a set of routines.


Hi Lorelyen,

What you present brings to mind there are those that may show how to live and those that may show the way to live. It is in what manner these get presented that may inspire or give me caution.

I think some place more faith in the messenger without really listening to the message.

The Universal ways are set in motion, but they are in motion, not stagnant.

Yes, one at times has to figure it for him/her self. It does take doing and practice. At times for me also to listen to my intuition. If it feels right, chances are it is, if not take heed.
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  #19  
Old 14-04-2019, 07:39 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonglow
At its foundation religion is Spiritual teachings.

The differences I view are that the major religions ( Christianity, Islam, Judism, Some Buhddist sects, some Hindu sects,, Yoga and others I may not know) seem to follow a designated Master/teacher/Holy person and have thier rituals/practices. As far as I can gather.
Here's what made sense of it all for me -

"The temple of the most high begins with the body which houses our life, the essence of our existence. Africans are in bondage today because they approach spirituality through religion provided by foreign invaders and conquerors. We must stop confusing religion and spirituality. Religion is a set of rules, regulations and rituals created by humans, which was suppose to help people grow spiritually. Due to human imperfection religion has become corrupt, political, divisive and a tool for power struggle. Spirituality is not theology or ideology. It is simply a way of life, pure and original as was given by the Most High of Creation. Spirituality is a network linking us to the Most High, the universe, and each other…”

Hailie Selassie


So while Selassie was talking about African religion/Spirituality it's just as applicable everywhere else. If you read through the forum posts many of them are ideology/theology based - and that's not a criticism but an observation. The problem as I see it is that people look out from their own perspective, which is where their feet are, and if their feet is standing on ideologies and theologies? Most 'go to church on Sundays' religions are on the wain because people's lifestyles don't allow for the same ritualistic practices of something that doesn't bring them much benefit - as they see it.

The other problem is that Spirituality is changing but Spiritual people aren't changing along with it because they're too focussed on their religions. Moire people are interested in the mind/body/spirit aspects of their Lives but as it fits in with their lifestyles. They'll buy a mice plate with glass beads and a couple of candles because it makes them feel better. Interestingly, people religiously practice their Spirituality for the same reasons. These 'back to nature' holidays and trips are becoming more prevalent, or just spending quiet time under a tree. That to them is quite Spiritual.

It's Spiritual people that are out-dated because they can't tell the differences between Spirituality and religion.
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  #20  
Old 14-04-2019, 08:52 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
What is "dated" and what is "outdated" are moot concepts for anybody who believes in or lives in "the eternal present" or in "the NOW". I always love the backstepping that spiritual people do when one belief is in direct conflict with another.

Religion isn't all about war mongering in the name of a God...it's also amusing how people tend to overgeneralise towards the more fanatic and fringe element. If anything, religion is an institution created for those of similar faith to be in the company of like minded individuals..nothing more, nothing less.

However, society has a knack for discrediting a whole institution - believing that the ONLY religions which really "matter" are the Abrahamic ones (seeing as how they are the ones with the worst track record) and create a whole anti-religion campaign all wrapped up in a neat little package and marketed towards a gullible society...which doesn't include the 1.3 billion Hindus living on the Indian Subcontinent, nor the 0.5 billion Buddhists living there and elsewhere either...
So where does Spiritual development sit in "the eternal present?" Tolle says that the Now is all there is, the past is memory and the future is expectation so is Spiritual development a contradiction to Spiritual Truth (because after all it comes from Eckhart Tolle) or is it ironic because you have to be Spiritually developed enough to Live in the Now? If there is no time and all of time affects all of time all of the time then... what? I never did like causality loops much. But this is another reason why Joe Public doesn't like Spirituality - frankly it's a contradictory mess sometimes and beliefs are only truths when they're in glass cases.

I walked away from Christianity because in my town the people that went to church on Sunday were hypocrites - they were the people that looked down on me the rest of the week. And I never felt that God was in the House of God, it always felt cold and empty. To me, religions represent mindsets and Spirituality is often no different.

Regardless of what religion was 'created' for, there's something very different happening today. Against all true Islamic tenets there are those that are trying to impose Sharia Law in the UK, and there are already no-go zones in large cities where ordinary people have barricaded themselves in. Yet they still take money from the government to buy food and clothes, pay their rent etc... This is the face of religion that most people see - not what goes on behind closed doors. What's been in the news is that the Saudis have decided that stoning people for homosexuality is the law. Religion has become just another excuse to cause conflict and murder - and even genocide - to many. I can't believe in a religion that does that, yet I'll happily sit and watch a YouTube of a woman who is telling of how the holy books had been re-written to suit the clerics of their religion, and how the doctrine is contradictory to historical facts. You can't blame people for not wanting to be associated with that, just the same way Spiritual people don't want to be associated with junkies.

The ones that want to find what they need badly enough will find it regardless, after their own fashion. Most people want an inner peace more than anything else, especially in this day and age and this is where religion and people can part company. Religion is often seen as being for those that want the rituals and the ideologies, and that has little place in modern society. You see, the wrong questions are being asked yet again and people are coming up with answers that don't make sense because of it. Maybe when people stop creating wars in the name of religion others might find their way to exploring something resembling a religious ideal.

There are some things that are just not meant to be institutionalised and people are asking different questions and looking for different answers.
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