Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-04-2019, 06:34 AM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 901
 
Is There a Relationship?

Is there a relationship between being here now without the "person" and the things this person says, writes, types, thinks, when one is in that space?

Here are some more ways of asking it so maybe somebody will get what my question is.

Is there a relationship between the "you" that exists when you are "deep in" meditation or mindfulness, and the "you" that exists when you writing a long post?

Is there a relationship between the "you" that is sitting in nature, connecting to the beauty and wonder that you are perceiving and the "you" that sits down at the computer to argue about religion or philosophy or whatever?

Now I'm not saying one can't sit down and look at posts while being mindful, or while meditating, or while being "empty" but seems to me words have no reality or meaning if I am in the empty of mind space.

For meaning to exist, one has to be in the mental world, if one is in the mental world, they are no longer in the other state I described. I'm starting to believe there is no relationship between the two different ways of being.

I wonder if on the path, one starts spending less and less time in the mental world until one is rarely there at all.

Maybe that's where Bodhidharma's short quotes, and Buddha's came out of... the reluctance of them to be in mind.

So like instead of some long post, like this one, one just says....

Take a vacation from yourself.... then it ends up on brainyquote page and people say it's fake or just a Cliche. Others see that and maybe it resonates as it reminds them in some way of just being, not "becoming."

Oh that's another way I can phrase the question.

Is there a relationship between what I am when I am just "being," (no mind) and what I am when I am in "becoming - mind" reality?

I think most people would answer yes, as mentally we see ourselves as becoming....but I'm thinking the actual answer is no. If I get into the space where I let go of the conceptual, then the meaning or "reality" of words tends to vanish.

Like get into a thoughtless mindful state, be in that for awhile, then while in this space, go back and look at some long post you made. Does it still make sense to you? Does it have any meaning or reality?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-04-2019, 07:40 AM
sky sky is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,530
  sky's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain95
Is there a relationship between being here now without the "person" and the things this person says, writes, types, thinks, when one is in that space?

Here are some more ways of asking it so maybe somebody will get what my question is.

Is there a relationship between the "you" that exists when you are "deep in" meditation or mindfulness, and the "you" that exists when you writing a long post?

Is there a relationship between the "you" that is sitting in nature, connecting to the beauty and wonder that you are perceiving and the "you" that sits down at the computer to argue about religion or philosophy or whatever?

Now I'm not saying one can't sit down and look at posts while being mindful, or while meditating, or while being "empty" but seems to me words have no reality or meaning if I am in the empty of mind space.

For meaning to exist, one has to be in the mental world, if one is in the mental world, they are no longer in the other state I described. I'm starting to believe there is no relationship between the two different ways of being.

I wonder if on the path, one starts spending less and less time in the mental world until one is rarely there at all.

Maybe that's where Bodhidharma's short quotes, and Buddha's came out of... the reluctance of them to be in mind.

So like instead of some long post, like this one, one just says....

Take a vacation from yourself.... then it ends up on brainyquote page and people say it's fake or just a Cliche. Others see that and maybe it resonates as it reminds them in some way of just being, not "becoming."

Oh that's another way I can phrase the question.

Is there a relationship between what I am when I am just "being," (no mind) and what I am when I am in "becoming - mind" reality?

I think most people would answer yes, as mentally we see ourselves as becoming....but I'm thinking the actual answer is no. If I get into the space where I let go of the conceptual, then the meaning or "reality" of words tends to vanish.

Like get into a thoughtless mindful state, be in that for awhile, then while in this space, go back and look at some long post you made. Does it still make sense to you? Does it have any meaning or reality?


How can there not be a relationship ? Everything is connected .
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-04-2019, 08:28 AM
JustBe JustBe is offline
Master
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 3,251
  JustBe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain95
Is there a relationship between being here now without the "person" and the things this person says, writes, types, thinks, when one is in that space?

Here are some more ways of asking it so maybe somebody will get what my question is.

Is there a relationship between the "you" that exists when you are "deep in" meditation or mindfulness, and the "you" that exists when you writing a long post?

Is there a relationship between the "you" that is sitting in nature, connecting to the beauty and wonder that you are perceiving and the "you" that sits down at the computer to argue about religion or philosophy or whatever?

Now I'm not saying one can't sit down and look at posts while being mindful, or while meditating, or while being "empty" but seems to me words have no reality or meaning if I am in the empty of mind space.

For meaning to exist, one has to be in the mental world, if one is in the mental world, they are no longer in the other state I described. I'm starting to believe there is no relationship between the two different ways of being.

I wonder if on the path, one starts spending less and less time in the mental world until one is rarely there at all.

Maybe that's where Bodhidharma's short quotes, and Buddha's came out of... the reluctance of them to be in mind.

So like instead of some long post, like this one, one just says....

Take a vacation from yourself.... then it ends up on brainyquote page and people say it's fake or just a Cliche. Others see that and maybe it resonates as it reminds them in some way of just being, not "becoming."

Oh that's another way I can phrase the question.

Is there a relationship between what I am when I am just "being," (no mind) and what I am when I am in "becoming - mind" reality?

I think most people would answer yes, as mentally we see ourselves as becoming....but I'm thinking the actual answer is no. If I get into the space where I let go of the conceptual, then the meaning or "reality" of words tends to vanish.

Like get into a thoughtless mindful state, be in that for awhile, then while in this space, go back and look at some long post you made. Does it still make sense to you? Does it have any meaning or reality?


There is you as the unchanging awareness and you as the changing awareness so it depends where your mind is centred all those things you mentioned and noticing from. The unchanging understands it’s not all those things the mind decides, experiences itself as something. The unchanging being is just aware and still experiencing, all that. You as you is still experiencing, just your aware your being is not that changing life creations. I noticed the shift when I reached that point. It wasn’t so much about less care, but not involved. Or if the you gets involved I remind myself to shift awareness fast. I guess you could say your more conscious of the you doing. Clarity in this way is not focused on what the mind is doing but how the mind is at play. In fact how the whole self is at play.





This is a nice read.


https://www.vedicawareness.com/writi...nging-Self.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-04-2019, 02:44 PM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 901
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
How can there not be a relationship ? Everything is connected .

I got woken up in the middle of the night and the question appeared in my mind a little different. I think it is more clear now.

Is there a relationship between "the finger pointing at the moon," Buddha's teachings, and "the moon," the realization or living of those teachings?

or

Is there a relationship between a teaching, which is a word based thing, and realizing, doing, or living them?

I think a big factor here is what are the teachings pointing at or describing?

Like say the teachings are describing how to make a pie. So you follow the instructions step by step and do what it says. So you read, put 2 cups of blueberries into a bowl.....then you look away from the words, the teaching, and do it......back and forth you go from the teaching to the doing....

So yea there is an obvious relationship between the two.

So in this context, the teaching can help one reach the goal faster and more accurately.

So Buddha's teachings are a word based thing, and what if the teaching is about living without a word based thing?

I think that describes the teaching I am interested in here.

Like when making a pie using a recipe or "teaching," one is constantly going back to it for the next step....but what if the goal is a wordless way of living?.... the recipe or instructions tell one how to be here now free of the conceptual or word based interpretation...so then one cannot go back to the words over and over to get to the "pie" that is described or pointed to. The "pie" being "enlightenment." Living in this new wordless or "liberated" way.

Thus, Buddha's raft parable, where Buddha taught his teachings were like a raft to carry one across a river, and on the other side, one should drop the raft to be able to walk forward.

#1. The teachings are a word based way to be.
#2. Buddha was pointing at a non-word based way to be.
#3. Holding onto the teachings prevents the realization or actualization, the living of, or "doing" the teachings.

That raft parable was not a suggestion. One cannot live the teachings if one still carries them or is referring to them.

So one gets to the point where there is no relationship between the two. At the point one has put their foot down across that river and felt that ground off the raft, then that ground is the guide....that wordless reality, the awareness centered way of being. In fact, the "teachings" or "raft" then become a hindrance..... remember they are word based living and one seeks the opposite... so one drops them.... leaves the raft behind.

The only relationship one has with that raft at that point is to offer it to others to get an idea where they are going. They themselves, have no relationship with it in the living now. I think the raft in fact is then a dangerous thing for them. The more one looks there, the greater the danger one is back on that raft, floating back across that river to a word centered way of living.

So in this context, the teaching can help one reach the goal, the other shore, but then one walks without word based teaching anymore. Awareness of the new shore itself, and an awareness and understanding of the different natures of the raft experience and the non-raft experience, or of the two different shores one can be on, is what one walks with. An understanding is carried, that has a relationship with current experience, no raft is carried. The raft did it's job and no longer has a relationship with experience.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-04-2019, 03:32 PM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 901
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBe
There is you as the unchanging awareness and you as the changing awareness so it depends where your mind is centered all those things you mentioned and noticing from. The unchanging understands it’s not all those things the mind decides, experiences itself as something. The unchanging being is just aware and still experiencing, all that. You as you is still experiencing, just your aware your being is not that changing life creations. I noticed the shift when I reached that point. It wasn’t so much about less care, but not involved. Or if the you gets involved I remind myself to shift awareness fast. I guess you could say your more conscious of the you doing. Clarity in this way is not focused on what the mind is doing but how the mind is at play. In fact how the whole self is at play.

That is perfectly described. The part in bold....

it depends where your mind is centered all those things you mentioned and noticing from.

That's it....what I focus on becomes what I experience and project and experience and project and experience and project lol on and on that goes.... living in the box of thought and thinking.....until one sees what is up and steps out of that into the real world. The world I experience but am not creating.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 13-04-2019, 03:37 AM
JustBe JustBe is offline
Master
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 3,251
  JustBe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain95
That is perfectly described. The part in bold....

it depends where your mind is centered all those things you mentioned and noticing from.

That's it....what I focus on becomes what I experience and project and experience and project and experience and project lol on and on that goes.... living in the box of thought and thinking.....until one sees what is up and steps out of that into the real world. The world I experience but am not creating.


If the mind is open moment to moment, it’s not about thinking but more about awareness through the whole mind/body connection. Your aware of where your coming from and through if your whole self is involved as one interconnected flow.

When I’m in flow, it’s clear and unabated by thoughts, it’s the clarity of seeing and feeling, the mind doesn’t need to influence in this way. It becomes like a room upstairs where everything flows through unimpeded by conditioning. The creation of thought is more spontaneous prompting to move from there. You can’t think flow. Flow flows through the whole self. And if your aware of your whole self involved, you can feel the clarity in the expression/creation.

Being a predominate feeler type, until I became clear in feelings, not contained, the creation was influenced by the me/self still involved. I am aware to know where I’m coming from in mysflf now. The mind is the same, until the mind is not the leading process impeding the rest of your being self, the mind will continue to be in charge of the rest of you. Same scenario, clear open mind allows for the rest of you to open.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 13-04-2019, 04:14 AM
winter light winter light is offline
Experiencer
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 305
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain95
Is there a relationship between being here now without the "person" and the things this person says, writes, types, thinks, when one is in that space?

Here are some more ways of asking it so maybe somebody will get what my question is.

Is there a relationship between the "you" that exists when you are "deep in" meditation or mindfulness, and the "you" that exists when you writing a long post?

Is there a relationship between the "you" that is sitting in nature, connecting to the beauty and wonder that you are perceiving and the "you" that sits down at the computer to argue about religion or philosophy or whatever?

...
These words occurred to me a couple days ago:

What is the difference between an experience and a relationship?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 13-04-2019, 04:10 PM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 901
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by winter light
These words occurred to me a couple days ago:

What is the difference between an experience and a relationship?

It's funny how interested we can get in the words that appear in our minds, and then we share them, and others go "meh" and then us as well lose interest in our words we projected and interpreted as important just moments before.... so we too look back and go "meh" ....then one can recognize these thoughts in my mind now, that I am deeming so important, and putting some value on, will be meaningless in just a few moments, so yea why put importance on them now? on any of them? this then leads to silence within.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 13-04-2019, 04:40 PM
winter light winter light is offline
Experiencer
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 305
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain95
It's funny how interested we can get in the words that appear in our minds, and then we share them, and others go "meh" and then us as well lose interest in our words we projected and interpreted as important just moments before.... so we too look back and go "meh" ....then one can recognize these thoughts in my mind now, that I am deeming so important, and putting some value on, will be meaningless in just a few moments, so yea why put importance on them now? on any of them? this then leads to silence within.
One is dharma. The other is not.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 13-04-2019, 08:39 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
Master
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,384
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain95

So in this context, the teaching can help one reach the goal, the other shore, but then one walks without word based teaching anymore. Awareness of the new shore itself, and an awareness and understanding of the different natures of the raft experience and the non-raft experience, or of the two different shores one can be on, is what one walks with. An understanding is carried, that has a relationship with current experience, no raft is carried. The raft did it's job and no longer has a relationship with experience.

for as long as it exists a map always bears a relationship to the terrain it describes. But whether you need to continue to look at the map or even acknowledge its existance once you've gotten to the place you wisth to be is another question entirely.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums