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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #21  
Old 12-04-2017, 05:46 AM
Busby Busby is offline
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All of these answers, suggestions, rebuttals, advice and all the rest don't really answer my question and are also full of assumptions.

It seems that 2000 or so years ago a 'thing' we call 'god' sent his son, as his/its/her representative, to Earth to get us (starting with a handful of uneducated, illiterate and probably unwashed camel drivers, sheep farmers and fishermen) to set us on a right 'path' and to, right at the end, promise us a 'Kingdom of Heaven'. This KoH depends apparently in the end to a thing called 'rightousness' and to the following generations of these desert dwellers to have faith in something invisible, (except that of course which surrounds us, as for instance the chair upon which I am sitting) and to be morally perfect - which also gets very complicated especially if taken seriously.

So, to keep it short I'll be continuing to ask myself this question and puzzle over the thought that if 'god' had been, was, is visible, the choice I have between moral predicaments would be clear and still wouldn't prevent me being morally abominable if I so wished, seeing quite clearly (presumably) the consequences.

I'm one of these people who prefer clarity to confusion.
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  #22  
Old 12-04-2017, 07:08 AM
Lorelyen Lorelyen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
Just imagine how the world would change if God would speak quite clearly to all of the 8 billion Earth inhabitants at the same time and say something like this: On the 2nd of May this year the sun will appear in the sky as always but it will be green. It will stay green for one complete turn of the planet so that everyone can see it and so know, following my words to you all, that I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
All of these answers, suggestions, rebuttals, advice and all the rest don't really answer my question and are also full of assumptions.

But "He" did speak - very loud and very clear - about 4,000 years ago. Remember according to the Psalms (I forget which one) "man's" time on earth is but a hand-breadth compared to God's rather larger timescale. So, to "him", "he" spoke to us.

And people took not a blind bit of notice. "He's" probably given up. But he does occasionally raise "his" voice and we still take no notice, putting stuff down to natural disasters and ecological failings. (Assuming you believe in a personified "God")

I think "he" told David that the meek will inherit the earth: probably right: the aggressive will fight and kill themselves off leaving a few meek behind - but whether what's left is worth inheriting remains to be seen.

We spend too much time trying to defeat god's work in wrecking the natural order. You could argue that "he" shouldn't have given humans excessive but limited brain power and limited perceptive powers if "he" didn't want us to work within their capacity to defy Nature.

But there it is. He did speak. His words are the basis of the world's most best selling book.

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  #23  
Old 12-04-2017, 07:25 AM
Busby Busby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyen
But "He" did speak - very loud and very clear - about 4,000 years ago. Remember according to the Psalms (I forget which one) "man's" time on earth is but a hand-breadth compared to God's rather larger timescale. So, to "him", "he" spoke to us.

And people took not a blind bit of notice. "He's" probably given up. But he does occasionally raise "his" voice and we still take no notice, putting stuff down to natural disasters and ecological failings. (Assuming you believe in a personified "God")

I think "he" told David that the meek will inherit the earth: probably right: the aggressive will fight and kill themselves off leaving a few meek behind - but whether what's left is worth inheriting remains to be seen.

We spend too much time trying to defeat god's work in wrecking the natural order. You could argue that "he" shouldn't have given humans excessive but limited brain power and limited perceptive powers if "he" didn't want us to work within their capacity to defy Nature.

But there it is. He did speak. His words are the basis of the world's most best selling book.



It's just a pity I didn't hear him/her/it speak. Although personally I'd prefer a sighting. Nevertheless if he/she/it is going to hold it against me that I don't want to live in a state of confusion then he/she/it will have to allow some sort of leeway if I don't belieive all that stuff which has been written in the World's bestseller.


A Mcdonald's hamburger is probably top of the list in its own world but it hardly means it's good for you.
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  #24  
Old 12-04-2017, 07:54 AM
H:O:R:A:C:E H:O:R:A:C:E is offline
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i agree with Ghost_Rider_1970. post #6:
I believe no matter what form or belief each of us adopts God speaks
through us all. As each of us is the whole Universe - is God.


if you've missed God's words, you've simply not been listening.
ALL voices are echoes of God's words.
God is the prime creator, and all things are derived from there.
look around, where is God NOT to be found?

i too prefer clarity to confusion Busby.
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  #25  
Old 12-04-2017, 10:02 AM
Ghost_Rider_1970 Ghost_Rider_1970 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creedence
We all see 'god'
We just don't realise it.

We all are 'god'
We just don't realise it
__________________

I am not an individual having a universal experience, but the universe having an individual experience. Where consciousness is the universe experiencing itself through each of us.


Destiny is not the path given to us - but the path we choose for ourselves.

Current resources:
Tom Campbell: Ultimate Reality www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhv-XCff4_I


Currently reading:
Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are: Alan Watts
A Brief History of Time: Stephen Hawking
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  #26  
Old 12-04-2017, 10:27 AM
Ghost_Rider_1970 Ghost_Rider_1970 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
All of these answers, suggestions, rebuttals, advice and all the rest don't really answer my question and are also full of assumptions.

It seems that 2000 or so years ago a 'thing' we call 'god' sent his son, as his/its/her representative, to Earth to get us (starting with a handful of uneducated, illiterate and probably unwashed camel drivers, sheep farmers and fishermen) to set us on a right 'path' and to, right at the end, promise us a 'Kingdom of Heaven'. This KoH depends apparently in the end to a thing called 'rightousness' and to the following generations of these desert dwellers to have faith in something invisible, (except that of course which surrounds us, as for instance the chair upon which I am sitting) and to be morally perfect - which also gets very complicated especially if taken seriously.

So, to keep it short I'll be continuing to ask myself this question and puzzle over the thought that if 'god' had been, was, is visible, the choice I have between moral predicaments would be clear and still wouldn't prevent me being morally abominable if I so wished, seeing quite clearly (presumably) the consequences.

I'm one of these people who prefer clarity to confusion.

To help a little more, please find a copy of another post I made that touches on your questions Busby:

I also simply offer this as a suggestion with me having complete appreciation should your own views and beliefs differ in nature to mine.

I would just like to start off by saying that my own truth has evolved to this point following my 'Spiritual Awakening' 4 years ago. Where prior to this I felt happy although somewhat disconnected with religion never truly sitting well with me. Therefore through my journey of self-discovery I came to learn and understand, where faith allowed me to believe and experience. So once I came to realise who I am at the very heart of me this enabled me to become fully connected with everyone and everything.

This also answered all my questions regarding life, death, reincarnation, duality and life purpose - as in all honesty nothing is hidden from us.

Typically there tends to be two distinct viewpoints. Either the Darwin Theory of Evolution (the Automatic View) or the Biblical View of Creation (the Ceramic View). I must admit, neither of these sit particularly well with me. The difficulty I find with the Automatic View is that everything is contrived destiny. Where we have no Free Will and in essence all our decisions and choices are predetermined. Conversely, the difficulty I find with the Ceramic View is that we are forever being judged on our actions. So by being 'God Fearing' ensures we walk the path of righteousness so by appeasing God will allow us into Heaven - or by displeasing God casts us into Hell. I have never understood why we should fear God if He truly loves us as a separate 'Being'. Indeed, I don't actually believe in a separate God or in Heaven or Hell. In my opinion there is only ever the present - which can be either Heaven or Hell depending on our life circumstances.

It was along my Spiritual Journey I came across a wonderful spiritual philosopher called Alan Watts. He put a third theory forward. That everyone and everything is the whole universe - is God (the Organic View). To explore this further the starting point always has to begin with each of us. As we first have to fully appreciate ourselves from within before we can appreciate anything else. So when we reach out of our bodies with all our senses, we then know what it actually means by being central to who we are. Consequently we only know our physical form through viewing our reflection. Where our perfect creation doesn't stop at our fingertips but extends into the infinity of the Universe that is also us. So rather than us each having a soul within our bodies, our bodies are each a fragment of the Soul of the Universe.

This supports the idea that with us all coming from the very same 'Source' then everyone and everything is consciousness. So we are each like a wave connected by the whole ocean. Where as one wave disappears another wave is created. So when each of us die another person is born, and with us all coming from the same Universal Consciousness they too are us - but simply viewing their 'I' experience from their perspective. In effect, each of us is an aperture of the Universe viewing itself from our individual viewpoint.

When we move beyond the logical reasoning - so we actually feel this at the very core of our 'Being' - this gives real meaning to life and dissolves our illusion that we are completely separate individuals. It also takes away our fear and doubt when it comes to death. As death is a beautiful cycle of life so the Universe can continue experiencing itself through renewed senses. So when I die I will in effect be reborn through someone else, as I already am through the entirety of ongoing Universal Creation. This is what I truly believe by reincarnation. That I as an individual do not reincarnate, but I as the Universe always reincarnate through everything that is created. For me, this is a truly magical realisation with me seeing everyone and everything the very same way. Without any prejudice or distinction. So when I look at the beautiful stars in the night sky, or the blue mountain lake, or the wind blowing through the trees I don't just see them as inanimate objects, I see them as I see myself. That they are also me.

Another way of looking at this is to imagine the most beautiful piece of music you have ever heard and multiply this by infinity. This then becomes the music of life, where each of us is a note that plays during our existence. Those closest to us play so perfectly - and at the same resonance as us. Where those that don't still play so perfectly too. So as one note fades out another begins. The importance in this analogy it to appreciate that the music plays all by itself, and not by a Deity or a Creator. This then gives us Free Will without any predetermined destiny or automation. So allows us to be who we are.

Looking into this further then helps with our understanding of duality and non-duality. Duality is how we experience life. So we know dark because of light, hot because of cold, hardness because of softness. Non-duality is appreciating that these are not separate to each other, but are intrinsically linked. Very similarly to the way there is a north and a south pole on a magnet - yet it is one magnet.

So this brings us to life purpose. Which in all honesty is very simple. That is simply to live, and to enjoy the beauty in everyone and everything around us in pure love and happiness. As the whole Universe is in balance and harmony. To my mind, this is enlightenment - ascension - as to be fully connected in this way literally takes your breath away. Not in a way of superiority, but in a way that is humble. This is therefore achievable by each and everyone of us - without having to do any 'inner work', or have any specialist knowledge. All we need to know is how to play the game of hide and seek of who we are - so we can truly see through spiritual eyes.

So we can discover that everyone and everything is Universal Energy - is God.

In simple terms, and if you are looking for an external signs, sights or sound from God - the best direction to look is from within. So when you are listening to your intuition, that is when you are listening to god\angels\guiides - in essence, the Universe
__________________

I am not an individual having a universal experience, but the universe having an individual experience. Where consciousness is the universe experiencing itself through each of us.


Destiny is not the path given to us - but the path we choose for ourselves.

Current resources:
Tom Campbell: Ultimate Reality www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhv-XCff4_I


Currently reading:
Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are: Alan Watts
A Brief History of Time: Stephen Hawking
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  #27  
Old 12-04-2017, 01:35 PM
Busby Busby is offline
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Ghost_Rider_1970

I just have to thank you for the trouble you took to reply so deeply and so passionately to my 'silly' question.

Ever since I was a child of eight - and that was 70 years ago - I have been delving into the problem of life. At that age, whilst playing in a London street I suddenly and overwhelmingly was confronted with the understanding of just how those physical (or seemingly physical) 'realities' around us only serve to dissuade us from seeing that the universe is one big single beingness. This phsyical universe is, as I understand it from my own kind/sort of mystical experiences is one of many ways of experiencing (I have to call it consciousness) one of the endless facets of perpetual change.

I see imagination as being the most powerful force that there is, absolutely. This force is not only the power that drives mankind (now, as we know now) but allows us - in our oneness - to create the worlds around us according to our understanding. This imagination has led us to where we are today, our knowledge even of the most banal things to those works of science and art which we today have and in their diversity and magnificence will never end. Everything which we imagine will come to be and the more that comes to be will lead to us imagining more. Everything is true.

A starving suffering child in Somalia is as important to this oneness as is the university education and words of Thomas Campbell, Alan Watts and Albert Einstein. Just to mention three. The only aim of the universe, I think, is to experience. To experience everything and that's going to take a long time!

What we lose on the roundabouts we gain on the swings. No one said this better than Ralph Emerson in his many essays and especially in his essay Compensation. Which I can recommend.

In 1958 I challenged God to show him/her/itself to me, amazingly it worked and I've been shown a number of times that I haven't been forgotten. What a wonderful world - or even better - what wonderful worlds.
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  #28  
Old 12-04-2017, 01:59 PM
SlayerOfLight SlayerOfLight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creedence
We all see 'god'
We just don't realise it.

And who is this 'god' you speak of, if I may ask?
__________________
People don't get what they deserve. They just get what they get. There's nothing any of us can do about it. - dr. Gregory House
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  #29  
Old 12-04-2017, 05:20 PM
Ghost_Rider_1970 Ghost_Rider_1970 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
Ghost_Rider_1970

I just have to thank you for the trouble you took to reply so deeply and so passionately to my 'silly' question.

Ever since I was a child of eight - and that was 70 years ago - I have been delving into the problem of life. At that age, whilst playing in a London street I suddenly and overwhelmingly was confronted with the understanding of just how those physical (or seemingly physical) 'realities' around us only serve to dissuade us from seeing that the universe is one big single beingness. This phsyical universe is, as I understand it from my own kind/sort of mystical experiences is one of many ways of experiencing (I have to call it consciousness) one of the endless facets of perpetual change.

I see imagination as being the most powerful force that there is, absolutely. This force is not only the power that drives mankind (now, as we know now) but allows us - in our oneness - to create the worlds around us according to our understanding. This imagination has led us to where we are today, our knowledge even of the most banal things to those works of science and art which we today have and in their diversity and magnificence will never end. Everything which we imagine will come to be and the more that comes to be will lead to us imagining more. Everything is true.

A starving suffering child in Somalia is as important to this oneness as is the university education and words of Thomas Campbell, Alan Watts and Albert Einstein. Just to mention three. The only aim of the universe, I think, is to experience. To experience everything and that's going to take a long time!

What we lose on the roundabouts we gain on the swings. No one said this better than Ralph Emerson in his many essays and especially in his essay Compensation. Which I can recommend.

In 1958 I challenged God to show him/her/itself to me, amazingly it worked and I've been shown a number of times that I haven't been forgotten. What a wonderful world - or even better - what wonderful worlds.

Oh wow Busby, what a beautiful post and I promise there is never a silly question as all questions forever help with our knowledge and understanding on our Life Path

I also completely agree that imagination and creation are such beautiful gifts that we possess. Where I feel so inspired by your breath-taking realisation of how you see the Universe experiencing itself through each of us.

I too challenged God to show himself to me, and said I would only believe when I saw 'Him' with my own two eyes. Little did I realise that the day would come that I would see God as I see myself - so I could see God in everyone and everything

I really do wish you so much love and happiness, as I loved reflecting through your life experiences and how you see yourself today.

Thank you will all my heart for sharing and also for your incredibly kind words
__________________

I am not an individual having a universal experience, but the universe having an individual experience. Where consciousness is the universe experiencing itself through each of us.


Destiny is not the path given to us - but the path we choose for ourselves.

Current resources:
Tom Campbell: Ultimate Reality www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhv-XCff4_I


Currently reading:
Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are: Alan Watts
A Brief History of Time: Stephen Hawking
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  #30  
Old 16-04-2017, 12:04 AM
creedence creedence is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
And who is this 'god' you speak of, if I may ask?

Well for me slayer, it's something beyond my comprehension. I see creation, I see love, loss, happiness, all of life's Emotions. In that, in some way I see something that I call God.
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