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  #21  
Old 23-05-2018, 05:52 AM
barrynu barrynu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Thanks and yeah, 4 days isn't like two weeks, but I realised that I have a lot to teach, whether people want to listen or not...because at least I am getting it out there...but I have also learned when certain individuals are just 'not ready' and to simply relate parables and stories instead of trying to bring out the real 'heavy stuff'. I am also one of the 144,000...so it's time I started acting like it.


Your thinking mind said "2 weeks will sort me out"...Your Essence didn't need so much time.
I'm am off to google "the 144,000" now
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  #22  
Old 23-05-2018, 06:05 AM
SaturninePluto SaturninePluto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
This is exactly what I was going to say.

I was taught that Lucifer was expelled from Heaven because he loved God so much, he refused to bow to Adam over God.

This is showing two things...

Firstly, that God loves us so much that He bows to us and expects His Angels to do likewise. We are the pinnacle of God's creation...His 'pride and joy' as it were, but when Lucifer took one look at how we treat each other, he basically said "why should I worship such imperfect beings as these over one who I believed was perfect, but who is now showing imperfection by creating and placing such faith in these pitiable creatures?"

Secondly, that one should not ignore worshiping the God IN man, and loving/serving their fellow beings over just loving and worshiping God Himself and even I am guilty of this and so, this story also carries with it a personal message.

Over time, the fallen angel Lucifer became associated with Satan or the Devil, but one would think the Christians would come up with a better title than the 'Bearer of Light' because that's God's job and Satan would be the "Bringer of Darkness" and so, I never felt comfortable with the whole Lucifer story.

Having said that, 'Satan' is just as much a personification as 'God' is, because to treat Satan as a metaphor for something, the same must also apply to God...and you would also think that God, being omnipotent and all, means that He also created Satan and is fully aware of what is going on, or else it's a case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing.

Thing with Lucifer being associated with Satan. Well in the Jewish Tanahk this being is referred to, from that wiki reference there I posted as "The Satan". According to what I've read Satan means "Adversary". It is not however descriptive of an adversary to what. Human beings like to put their spins on things. It does not appear to me to be specified as to what the Satan is the adversary to. Most like to say he is adversary to God, but personally when I read what I've read I am more inclined to feel he is adversary to humanity rather than to God.

What many fail to grasp about the entity of Satan, is that no Satan is not the beings name, and I have not read the tanahk where the being is originally mentioned, am not therefore even sure, that the entities original name was Lucifer.

Satan itself, is written as the Satan, and is no name but a title. Satan meaning adversary, which would read "The adversary". Many assume this mean the being opposes God. I am of the belief the being opposes humanity.

Where you mention bearer of light and Satan perhaps being better suited as bringer of darkness. I believe God very well both created, knows of, and had a purpose for Satan. I believe perhaps Satan does do God's work. Not in the way archangel Michael or Gabriel does. Satan as evidenced in the biblical Job tests man's faith. When men overcome I believe the will of God is done. Strengthening the faith of others, is work of the light, when man prevails. The duty of Satan would be then to test man's loyalty to God.

Personally I have had more experience with the demonic- including possession of myself and others, to question whether or not evil exists. I know it does.

However I am not inclined to believe people know too much about that which they call Satan.

Simply put as an entity itself- No Satan does not exist. Not as Satan.

It isn't the entities if indeed it exists name.

It is a title- which equates with an adversary.

I also am not entirely sure this being originally from the Jewish Tanahk was named there as like I stated I've not read it.

Therefore am not entirely sure it is called Lucifer either.

It is very very odd you know? Some of the same individuals stating they believe the being Satan to be a metaphor, believe in spirit guides, guardian angels, and archangels could exist.

But whenever it isn't something good it suddenly ceases existence in the minds of people. As if evil can not even be fathomed.

Like you said in another post in this thread that is the comic humor of it all.

If it is true what is said- The greatest trick Satan ever pulled, was to make the world believe he doesn't exist.

It is quite evident the great majority are well enough already deceived.

There isn't too much I find very comical about it as an individual whom has seen themselves that evil exists.

It only helps me to lose a big chunk of faith in human kind.

I find it all rather sad.
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  #23  
Old 23-05-2018, 06:13 AM
django django is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
This is exactly what I was going to say.

I was taught that Lucifer was expelled from Heaven because he loved God so much, he refused to bow to Adam over God.

This is showing two things...

Firstly, that God loves us so much that He bows to us and expects His Angels to do likewise. We are the pinnacle of God's creation...His 'pride and joy' as it were, but when Lucifer took one look at how we treat each other, he basically said "why should I worship such imperfect beings as these over one who I believed was perfect, but who is now showing imperfection by creating and placing such faith in these pitiable creatures?"

Secondly, that one should not ignore worshiping the God IN man, and loving/serving their fellow beings over just loving and worshiping God Himself and even I am guilty of this and so, this story also carries with it a personal message.

Over time, the fallen angel Lucifer became associated with Satan or the Devil, but one would think the Christians would come up with a better title than the 'Bearer of Light' because that's God's job and Satan would be the "Bringer of Darkness" and so, I never felt comfortable with the whole Lucifer story.

Having said that, 'Satan' is just as much a personification as 'God' is, because to treat Satan as a metaphor for something, the same must also apply to God...and you would also think that God, being omnipotent and all, means that He also created Satan and is fully aware of what is going on, or else it's a case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing.

Did you hear this version from Sufi's? It is very different to the Jewish/Christian idea.

Jesus is recorded in the bible as being actively against Satan a number of times, in his 3 temptations, and when Peter is telling him he doesn't have to die and rise again Jesus says "get thee behind me Satan," because going with Peter's idea is going against God's plan.

Quote:
Many Christians believe the Devil was once a beautiful angel named Lucifer who defied God and fell from grace. This assumption is often based the book of Isaiah in the Bible which says, “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations." Some biblical scholars, however, claim Lucifer isn’t a proper name but a descriptive phrase meaning “morning star.” Still, the name stuck and the Devil is often referred to as Lucifer.

I think Islam took quite a lot from Jewish texts and some from the new testament as well, though they mostly put their own spin on it.

With regard to God creating Satan, in Christianity the point is we are given free will to choose between God and Satan, Satan had this choice as well, God or self. God doesn't control people (or angels apparently), people are always free to choose, but Satan does want to control what people do, and perhaps he has the ability to make his followers do what he wants them to do. This last bit is debateable though.
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  #24  
Old 23-05-2018, 06:15 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrynu
Your thinking mind said "2 weeks will sort me out"...Your Essence didn't need so much time.
I'm am off to google "the 144,000" now
Yes, that is a very plausible explanation.

My knowledge on this subject was imparted to me by the Archangel Ashtaroth - who many Christians consider to be another name for Lucifer.

Ashtaroth is the deity associated with ascension.

This may be interesting to note, Barry.

What many call the 'Holy Spirit' can also be called the 'Baptism of Fire' by Christians and of course, we all know the one who is associated with the 'Baptism of Fire' as being the Serpent in the Garden of Eden who ascends the Tree of Life...sound familiar?

Now, when a few Christians feel touched by this 'Holy Spirit', they go into rapture...they feel the bliss of Shakti rising up Jacob's Ladder, which is in reference to the human Spinal column...

Jacob named the place Peniel (which means "face of God"), for he said, "I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been spared."

So yeah, Jacob activated his Pineal Gland (face of God) by climbing the ladder of 33 steps and awakening the Chrism or "Christ Consciousness" within.

Now, when Christians go into bliss, there is another faction of Christians who will say "being 'Slain in Spirit' is nothing more than possession by a demon/devil instigated by that bad dude Ashtaroth" and they frown upon people going into religious ecstatic trance due to their total love of the Divine, which has them totally losing control and convulsing on the floor, but this IS the whole "baptism of fire".

The whole message has been twisted and transformed for generations of re-writing and re-telling and so that the original meaning is lost...it's up to us to try and put it right and to stop the overwhelming and overarching fear of God into one of pure, unconditional love.
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  #25  
Old 23-05-2018, 06:15 AM
Imzadi Imzadi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
I am also one of the 144,000...so it's time I started acting like it.

That is so fascinating! I've never came across someone who openly identify as one of the 144,000. I am aware of what it says in the Biblical Scriptures pertaining to the 144,000, however there are so many different interpretations floating out there some more fantastical than others. I am curious as to how you would describe the 144,000 from your unique perspective and what is your Truth in the matter.
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  #26  
Old 23-05-2018, 06:18 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
Did you hear this version from Sufi's? It is very different to the Jewish/Christian idea.

Jesus is recorded in the bible as being actively against Satan a number of times, in his 3 temptations, and when Peter is telling him he doesn't have to die and rise again Jesus says "get thee behind me Satan," because going with Peter's idea is going against God's plan.



I think Islam took quite a lot from Jewish texts and some from the new testament as well, though they mostly put their own spin on it.

With regard to God creating Satan, in Christianity the point is we are given free will to choose between God and Satan, Satan had this choice as well, God or self. God doesn't control people (or angels apparently), people are always free to choose, but Satan does want to control what people do, and perhaps he has the ability to make his followers do what he wants them to do. This last bit is debateable though.
It is more a tale from the Essenes and the scriptures of that time, rather than being related to any modern denomination or the current thoughts therein...it's pretty much the whole 'gnostic version' of events.
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  #27  
Old 23-05-2018, 06:20 AM
django django is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrynu
If he is real and deception is his power then as I said,he is not very powerful.
Deception is simple.I can do it.You can do it.We all can do it.
Its a human thing and not a powerful force from a powerful Entity.
Hypnosis can devieve people.
Truth serum(not sure if they exist)is another human invention that can control us.
Fear of another Human can make people do things they don't want to.
A child can convince its parents to buy them a chocolate treat.
Fear,guilt and love can make us do things we don't want to and we can easily be deceived.....Human abilities and not the powerful magic of satan.

As I said earlier,God has shown us magic,,,Satan hasn't shown us anything on that scale

So what I am trying to say is that I don't see Satan's power of deception as anymore stronger than the power we as humans have.
He is no more a threat than the person you see everyday.

Do you think you are deluded/in illusion, or do you see reality clearly? To the extent that you are not clear about truth and reality, this is the extent of your delusion, or deception, which I am equating with darkness and disorder and chaos and overturned thinking and Satan and Maya.

Illusion and delusion is very powerful, unless you are enlightened.
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  #28  
Old 23-05-2018, 06:27 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imzadi
That is so fascinating! I've never came across someone who openly identify as one of the 144,000. I am aware of what it says in the Biblical Scriptures pertaining to the 144,000, however there are so many different interpretations floating out there some more fantastical than others. I am curious as to how you would describe the 144,000 from your unique perspective and what is your Truth in the matter.
In anticipation of your reply, I have outlined the reason in my lengthy post above.

I realise that openly admitting this was taking a huge personal risk, but not as much as anybody else on this forum who admits to being an "Earth Angel" because that is what we essentially are.

All I know is that I have a Divine purpose here, beyond realising my own Divinity and through the Grace of God, if it is His plan, that is going to happen....I also felt that my instructions through the Archangels must have meant that I was 'special' somehow; but no lesser or greater than anybody else.

Of course, I see myself as 'chosen' because with what has been going on with me, it's hard NOT to see it..and the only ones that God chooses, are those He has plans for, regardless of 'free will' or no 'free will' because all is God's will. Can you understand this? Human beings only think/believe they have free will because it was necessary for the plot of this whole story to unfold.
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  #29  
Old 23-05-2018, 06:28 AM
django django is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturninePluto
Thing with Lucifer being associated with Satan. Well in the Jewish Tanahk this being is referred to, from that wiki reference there I posted as "The Satan". According to what I've read Satan means "Adversary". It is not however descriptive of an adversary to what. Human beings like to put their spins on things. It does not appear to me to be specified as to what the Satan is the adversary to. Most like to say he is adversary to God, but personally when I read what I've read I am more inclined to feel he is adversary to humanity rather than to God.

What many fail to grasp about the entity of Satan, is that no Satan is not the beings name, and I have not read the tanahk where the being is originally mentioned, am not therefore even sure, that the entities original name was Lucifer.

Satan itself, is written as the Satan, and is no name but a title. Satan meaning adversary, which would read "The adversary". Many assume this mean the being opposes God. I am of the belief the being opposes humanity.

Where you mention bearer of light and Satan perhaps being better suited as bringer of darkness. I believe God very well both created, knows of, and had a purpose for Satan. I believe perhaps Satan does do God's work. Not in the way archangel Michael or Gabriel does. Satan as evidenced in the biblical Job tests man's faith. When men overcome I believe the will of God is done. Strengthening the faith of others, is work of the light, when man prevails. The duty of Satan would be then to test man's loyalty to God.

Personally I have had more experience with the demonic- including possession of myself and others, to question whether or not evil exists. I know it does.

However I am not inclined to believe people know too much about that which they call Satan.

Simply put as an entity itself- No Satan does not exist. Not as Satan.

It isn't the entities if indeed it exists name.

It is a title- which equates with an adversary.

I also am not entirely sure this being originally from the Jewish Tanahk was named there as like I stated I've not read it.

Therefore am not entirely sure it is called Lucifer either.

It is very very odd you know? Some of the same individuals stating they believe the being Satan to be a metaphor, believe in spirit guides, guardian angels, and archangels could exist.

But whenever it isn't something good it suddenly ceases existence in the minds of people. As if evil can not even be fathomed.

Like you said in another post in this thread that is the comic humor of it all.

If it is true what is said- The greatest trick Satan ever pulled, was to make the world believe he doesn't exist.

It is quite evident the great majority are well enough already deceived.

There isn't too much I find very comical about it as an individual whom has seen themselves that evil exists.

It only helps me to lose a big chunk of faith in human kind.

I find it all rather sad.

Yes I've come across some sort of demon stuff a couple of times, and it's not remotely funny. Very scary actually, and it can affect completely normal average people. Maybe that's why I'm wondering whether to write Satan off as metaphor, or whether there is some more active energy/consciousness that embodies this sort of dark disordered chaos that can be named Satan. It's a very big topic that I might never get to the bottom of, but it's sure interesting to hear a bit about how others understand it all.
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  #30  
Old 23-05-2018, 06:31 AM
Imzadi Imzadi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
In anticipation of your reply, I have outlined the reason in my lengthy post above.

I realise that openly admitting this was taking a huge personal risk, but not as much as anybody else on this forum who admits to being an "Earth Angel" because that is what we essentially are.

All I know is that I have a Divine purpose here, beyond realising my own Divinity and through the Grace of God, if it is His plan, that is going to happen....I also felt that my instructions through the Archangels must have meant that I was 'special' somehow; but no lesser or greater than anybody else.

Of course, I see myself as 'chosen' because with what has been going on with me, it's hard NOT to see it..and the only ones that God chooses, are those He has plans for, regardless of 'free will' or no 'free will' because all is God's will. Can you understand this? Human beings only think/believe they have free will because it was necessary for the plot of this whole story to unfold.

LOL, believe it or not, I understand you perfectly and completely. Thank you for your Service.
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