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04-11-2016, 02:59 PM
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Experiencer
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Chilliwack, BC
Posts: 387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karma-free-life
The only problem with the reincarnation theory is the fact we'd never break free of the cycle of 'eating a chicken' then 'being a chicken'! I have observed that a very wide range of people eat chickens, from a thug who wouldn't care if he killed the chicken by peeling it alive, right through to some very sophisticated spiritual beings, who know it's wrong, but haven't yet summoned up the discipline, or quite got it together, yet!
I've forgotten where I was going with that, great! Anyway, that creatures are born for us to mutilate in their best karmic interests does not quite stand up for me!
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I think the flaw is, believing that we reincarnate 'down' the ladder of evolution whether spiritually or physically. I think it is a continual process of growth/moving ahead/moving upward/becoming closer to our ideal image of ourselves. We are evolving, not devolving.
The beings that are incarnating as animals that are potential victims are doing so because it gives us a foil against which our goodness or badness is shown. Without their existence, how do we judge ourselves? There is no contrast or comparison against which we can measure what we have done. And I say this with the belief that we and they are all part of the same ALL. 'I' do that (incarnate as an abused animal) so that 'I' can experience the grace of growing towards the Truth of who I really am. To know Myself, to reunite with Myself in the Fullness of Who We all Are.
I once read a little story. A man with a disabled child asked his rabbi how his child's disability could be called God's 'perfect plan'. The rabbi said to him, 'it is not your child's disability that is perfect, but the actions of those around him who love him and care for him that are perfect. That is the perfection that God is seeking. (kind of a paraphrase, but hopefully you get the point). Disability's, cruelty, war....all there for us to learn from and grow through and away from.
For example, I used to think I was a 'real animal lover'. But now as I look back from the place that I'm at, and can see that my own misguided treatment of animals had no respect for their beingness, their suffering, their love of their own lives, I can see that I wasn't really an animal lover, so much as I liked having them around as opposed to people. Now I have something to measure myself against and in recognizing that harm, I recognize what true Love is and have something to adjust my treatment of them towards.
And that's also why some agree to take the role of the terrible people in our world. We need them to learn how not to live, how to be better, to give us something to grow away from in our own attitudes.
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05-11-2016, 12:46 AM
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Newbie ;)
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nature Grows
Why does a soul incarnate as a chicken? maybe it wants to serve humanity... what an absolutely beautiful soul... incarnating as a chicken just so it can become someones meal, God bless all chickens and animals who incarnate and give there lives for those who wish to eat them.
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Right! Cuz everything is about humans! The most self-centered, narcissistic thought process one could ever put up not to face the facts. No animal wants to get killed. No animal wants to be stuck in cage all his life and see the light of day only in slaughter day. No animal wants to be abused just to please a species who is too lazy and selfish to change their eating habbits.
"The Earth Doesn't Belong to Us, We Belong to the Earth." - Aldo Leopold.
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05-11-2016, 05:55 AM
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Experiencer
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 401
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If "God" wanted this to be a "perfect" planet it would've been. Only humans obsess with the thought of perfection.
__________________
If you're not paying attention to the small things in life you're missing out on the constant sprouting of creation. The birth of art at every breath
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05-11-2016, 06:17 AM
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Experiencer
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 401
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It doesn't mean we as humans can't try to change things, that's why we have free will but the other expressions of God are "perfect" as they are. Including humans who eat meat
__________________
If you're not paying attention to the small things in life you're missing out on the constant sprouting of creation. The birth of art at every breath
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18-11-2016, 10:39 PM
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Master
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 18,675
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A lovely chicken quote from Isaac Bashevis Singer:
"I didn't become a vegetarian for my health, I did it for the health of the chickens" ...
And you can't argue with that.
Still dreaming of a compassionate world.
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All this talk of religion, but it's how you live your life that is the all-important thing.
If you set out each day to do all the goodness and kindness that you can, and to do no harm to man or beast, then you are walking the highest path.
And when your time is up, if you can leave the earth a better place than you found it, then yours will have been a life well lived.
http://holy-lance.blogspot.com
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19-11-2016, 01:33 PM
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Experiencer
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Chilliwack, BC
Posts: 387
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One would have to ask the question, 'if God is love, and the act of taking a life is the ultimate unloving act, can meat consumption in a time where it is not required for health and is the cause of more planetary destruction than any other industry, is it practical to accept what is basically merely a habit and a tradition?'
People like to opine on the 'great sacrifice' of animals in 'giving up' their lives for us, but I would ask, 'when do we begin sacrificing for their benefit and for the benefit of the planet and all who live here'?
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19-11-2016, 01:59 PM
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Master
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 18,675
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Good questions and sound reasoning, dear Debrah.
God IS love, and attaining higher love is what earthly incarnation is fundamentally all about. And love does not involved harming or killing or the shedding of blood. That much is self-evident and one does not need to be a a saint or mystic to understand it.
Yes, it amuses me that some suggest the animals make a 'willing sacrifice' (nobody asked the animals to find out!) Which is nothing more than a sop to the conscience.
As I have said elsewhere, maybe if 'we' left all slaughterhouse and factory farm gates open the animals could show us in no uncertain terms how 'willing' they are .... We'd not see them for dust.
Life is dear to all.
__________________
All this talk of religion, but it's how you live your life that is the all-important thing.
If you set out each day to do all the goodness and kindness that you can, and to do no harm to man or beast, then you are walking the highest path.
And when your time is up, if you can leave the earth a better place than you found it, then yours will have been a life well lived.
http://holy-lance.blogspot.com
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05-11-2019, 10:06 AM
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Newbie ;)
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 19
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Chickens are bred in astranomical numbers (tens of billions killed worldwide every year) for food and surely at least 99% of them are in factory farms, not that the small numbers that are in so called 'free range' or get to go outside at all have decent or lengthy lives, they don't.
They have very short lives and all they know is only suffering and death at a very young age. It is like humans have created a hell for chickens and numerous other animals and I sincerely hope they DON'T REINCARNATE individually over and over again because surely 1 horrible life like that is more than enough. I would hope they would get to go to some much better existence in some other realm where they know something other than misery.
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05-11-2019, 12:12 PM
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Deactivated Account
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,546
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Chickens don't reincarnate, neither do we. After death, our atoms get scattered everywhere and ''live on'' while we cease to exist.
__________________
Shall I give you dis pear?
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05-11-2019, 05:02 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Everywhere... and Nowhere
Posts: 6,631
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I don't know if these kind of questions are fruitful because they may miss the mark. If we assume that bad things happen because of past life mistakes than we may be under the impression that we can just leave it at that, which leads to inaction and indifference. Central should be compassion, and chickens can feel pain and pleasure like us.
I've taken care of chickens, in a clutch of chickens you will notice they are all unique. They are funny and wonderful birds. It is a sad and sorry state of affairs that billions of these birds are slaughtered every year.
Video of a rooster and a girl :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM9KHQcn-pg
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