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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Lifestyle > Vegetarian & Vegan

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  #21  
Old 30-01-2017, 11:42 PM
merlin merlin is offline
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Hey!

I have a question. I've recently started with a vegan diet and bought some cacao without giving it any thought at first (I'm not sure how you call it in English... maybe 100% dark chocolate?). Anyway, is eating cacao a healthy thing to do? I'm a vatta type and it seems I don't really need astringe? taste that much. After my kundalini, however, it tastes sweeter than bitter.

Also, should sesame and chia seeds be soaked!? I think the answer for the latter is "yes," but I'm not sure about the former
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  #22  
Old 31-01-2017, 01:40 AM
Tobi Tobi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Girl
Hi Baile

My opinion will come across differently than the one previously given but yes, as you pointed out, a lot of my knowledge comes from Ayurvedic medicine which is different Fromm Western medicine (with the exception of Dr Robert Morse, a vegan doctor who has fought up to a hundred court cases against the American health allopathic system for misleading information given to the public.) i take seriously as I plan to study Allopathy / Integral medicine in the future as well.

If you eat a fruits and vegetables, mostly on a raw diet, you are on one of the healthiest diet possible. All body types are completely different which Western medicine rarely takes into account. The Western B12 levels that are "normal" are based on the dietary intake of people who eat animal products, so of course the standard is a lot higher. In terms of any other supplements, I would say you don't need them. However what's important for me to ask is how long have you been vegan?

If you are particularly concerned about not receiving enough dietary vitimins etc. it comes down to your choice to check it out but I will say To you confidently that you don't need anything at all.

For thousands of years many Indians lived complete vegan and vegetarian lives. This is a very unpopular opinion but unfortunately western medicine earns money from sick people, not healthy people, which is why it heals symptons not illness / disease. I'm not saying to disregard it, I'm saying keep this in mind, because as a vegan especially it will affect you. People will make you feel fear towards your own health when they understand very little about your lifestyle. Traditional Ayurvedics offer their service completely for free and they always say raw food is the healthiest food because it is live.

Another point is that the body has been known to turn nutrition into what it needs the most, such as protein into calcium, etc. (Another rather unknown and unpopular opinion yet is peer-based from a American GP Dr Morse [science is biased])

Apologies for the unstructured reply as I am writing on a phone.

I am genuinely fascinated by what you have said in this post, Nomad Girl.

It has made me wonder if I have just become over-conditioned by "things that I've read about nutrition".
And yes....I am a bit wary of getting it wrong, so supplement. I "read" (for example) that B12 deficiency can sometimes not manifest for 10 years or so. But it would be nice NOT to have to supplement, and a heck of a lot cheaper! I don't know -for myself anyway -yet.

It all seems so complex. I can hardly get my thoughts around it most of the time.

Usually I don't feel like eating a totally raw diet though. It is a cold place I live in and there is nothing nicer when it's cold than a hot lentil stew with lots of toasted wholewheat seed bread!
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  #23  
Old 31-01-2017, 11:01 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobi
I am genuinely fascinated by what you have said in this post, Nomad Girl.

It has made me wonder if I have just become over-conditioned by "things that I've read about nutrition".
And yes....I am a bit wary of getting it wrong, so supplement. I "read" (for example) that B12 deficiency can sometimes not manifest for 10 years or so. But it would be nice NOT to have to supplement, and a heck of a lot cheaper! I don't know -for myself anyway -yet.

It all seems so complex. I can hardly get my thoughts around it most of the time.

Usually I don't feel like eating a totally raw diet though. It is a cold place I live in and there is nothing nicer when it's cold than a hot lentil stew with lots of toasted wholewheat seed bread!

If you quit eating meat at a particular point, you have enough B12 stored in your liver to last at 'top' levels for about 6 years, but at about 20 the store is depleted. Unfortunately, by that time, the damage is done and dementia will have to become your friend. So don't quit supplementing B12. Go ahead and get everything else strictly from your diet, but B12 is non-negotiable. That is what I've been reading and I've also read in a number of instances, that researchers have found frequently, that veg'ns are deficient in B12.

As well, I can't help but wonder if it isn't possible that those Indian veg'n who never supplemented, didn't frequently lead agricultural lives or had food prepared for them by people who worked in the soil and if they didn't get their B12 needs met because hygiene was not what we live with today? Dirty, soiled hands that haven't been sanitized would have 'contaminated' the foods consumed and B12 is a bacteria that grows in the soil.
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  #24  
Old 15-03-2017, 04:37 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
I have a question: You vegetarians may pity all the poor cute little lambs being led to the slaughter, but have you ever wondered wether or not all the vegetables you eat have feelings and the pure terror they may have experienced while being devoured alive?


I've been away for a while but I came across your comment and I'll have a go at it.

Carrots, potatoes, broccoli's and every other plant didn't evolve a means to escape. Not a fin or a wing or legs among any of them, nor eyes so that they could see 'danger' coming while they still had time to escape, nor a nose so that they could smell predators before they arrived. Therefore, it is quite obvious that 'harvest' was not that much of an issue for them. On the other hand, the animals that you obviously don't care about and do eat, did evolve those mechanisms and they use them to get away from us and every other predator. They did evolve those protective systems so obviously to them, slaughter is an important issue.

What's more, plants do not have a nervous system that scientists have ever become aware of, nor a functional brain that would enable them to feel pain. Animals on the other hand are every bit as aware of pain as you are and they suffer every bit as much as you do. And by the way, that includes fish and lobsters and crabs as well. They all feel pain, they all suffer when we hurt them.

Now I know that you didn't ask that question out of any real concern for plants but more as a tongue in cheek kind of jab at people who have compassionate hearts that lead them to make great changes in our lives for the sake of someone else. I can only wonder why it is that you feel the need to do that. Some might suggest that it is a way of distracting yourself from the very real suffering and terror that is the result of your own participation in animal abuse. By making fun of us. Is that it?
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  #25  
Old 15-03-2017, 04:56 PM
Dargor Dargor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debrah
I've been away for a while but I came across your comment and I'll have a go at it.

Carrots, potatoes, broccoli's and every other plant didn't evolve a means to escape. Not a fin or a wing or legs among any of them, nor eyes so that they could see 'danger' coming while they still had time to escape, nor a nose so that they could smell predators before they arrived. Therefore, it is quite obvious that 'harvest' was not that much of an issue for them. On the other hand, the animals that you obviously don't care about and do eat, did evolve those mechanisms and they use them to get away from us and every other predator. They did evolve those protective systems so obviously to them, slaughter is an important issue.

What's more, plants do not have a nervous system that scientists have ever become aware of, nor a functional brain that would enable them to feel pain. Animals on the other hand are every bit as aware of pain as you are and they suffer every bit as much as you do. And by the way, that includes fish and lobsters and crabs as well. They all feel pain, they all suffer when we hurt them.

Now I know that you didn't ask that question out of any real concern for plants but more as a tongue in cheek kind of jab at people who have compassionate hearts that lead them to make great changes in our lives for the sake of someone else. I can only wonder why it is that you feel the need to do that. Some might suggest that it is a way of distracting yourself from the very real suffering and terror that is the result of your own participation in animal abuse. Is that it?

It was just a question, no need to get all defensive. Indeed, I care little about animals getting slaughtered because I like to eat meat and we are at the top of the food chain. However, if it makes your poor broken heart feel a little bit better, I think the slaughtering should be at least FAST and PAINLESS. There, can we be buddies now without getting suspected of having participated in animal cruelty? Or is this merely the beginning of the cross examination?

Oh and the reason I asked was simply because I lately stumbled upon some articles that indicated otherwise, and that plants MAY be able to feel pain after all.
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  #26  
Old 15-03-2017, 06:12 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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You know, when it comes to hurting small children or animals, I get 'protective' not defensive. And I admit, the snide comments like 'your poor broken heart', etc., says volumes SlayerOfLight (and isn't that descriptive?)

You like so many others, talk always about their deaths being painless and fast, but to be honest, I think you are speaking of something that is very far outside of your range of understanding. Pigs for example, can smell the blood and adrenalin and fear hormones of the others who went before them, from five miles away, so even as they are approaching a slaughterhouse, they are even more terrified than the trip itself has so far caused them to be. They are routinely beaten and shocked, whether sick or not and if they are lucky enough to die before they hit the scalding tank, it cannot be said that there is anything fast or painless about the entire experience. While you are wearing your warm jackets and sweaters and hat pulled down close over your head and thermal gloves, they freeze to the sides of the transport trailers and are pried off with box cutters and pry bars or if they are chickens, their feet freeze between the layers of cages and are ripped off before they even get unloaded from the trucks and those torn off feet are often a complement to the broken wings and legs that result from the catching and loading into the cages. Fast and painless is a myth that some of us have woken up to.

And that horror is preceded by the complete and totally misery and pain of their short lives from the moment they are born, not to mention the years of misery and pain that their poor mothers feel. And take note, I'm not using hyperbole to boost the 'tear jerker' effect of this story, but speaking only the absolute truth. From having their tiny scrotums sliced open and testicles ripped out (without anesthetic) to having their tiny teeth broken off with pliers, to the inability of their mothers being able to move at all for years at a time (can you imagine your own body if you were so confined for years) and all the other tortures that the other animals are born into and die after.... For a pig, six months of hell, for chickens six weeks of hell, dairy cows, six years of filth and misery, their calves........it's all misery. And it's supported by the consumer who propels it along by your dollars. If you support it by buying it, you are part of it and that's just the plain truth of the matter.

A cross examination implies that something in this issue is debatable, so I'm not cross examining you at all. I've 'debated' many times with people who eat meat and don't know what is involved or with people who eat meat and don't care that they are the cause of an ocean of suffering. And you are right, my heart is broken, but it's not broken for me, only for the ones who suffer and whom my change of eating choices cannot help. Because while approximately 100 animals per year won't be born to suffer because of me, there are billions who still have no hope and no future except to feel pain and misery. 'Top of the food chain', only because we have the imagination and lack of heart that makes all of this suffering possible. Take all our tools away and we would be the prey.

I know that I'm lecturing you here and I am sorry it's coming across like that, but animals are suffering in ways that our society excuses and it's just wrong. Nobody deserves what we dish out to them. And it doesn't matter which continent, which country, every last one is allowing and justifying the most horrible things being done to animals who feel pain and terror just like you and I do. I simply cannot stay silent, because if people like me don't speak up for them, no one else will.
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  #27  
Old 15-03-2017, 06:43 PM
Dargor Dargor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debrah
You know, when it comes to hurting small children or animals, I get 'protective' not defensive. And I admit, the snide comments like 'your poor broken heart', etc., says volumes SlayerOfLight (and isn't that descriptive?)

You like so many others, talk always about their deaths being painless and fast, but to be honest, I think you are speaking of something that is very far outside of your range of understanding. Pigs for example, can smell the blood and adrenalin and fear hormones of the others who went before them, from five miles away, so even as they are approaching a slaughterhouse, they are even more terrified than the trip itself has so far caused them to be. They are routinely beaten and shocked, whether sick or not and if they are lucky and die before they hit the scalding tank, it cannot be said that there is anything fast or painless about the entire experience. They freeze to the sides of the transport trailers and are pried off with box cutters and pry bars or if they are chickens, their feet freeze between the layers of cages and are ripped off before they even get unloaded from the trucks and those torn off feet are often a complement to the broken wings and legs that result from the catching and loading into the cages. Fast and painless is a myth that some of us have woken up to.

And that horror is preceded by the complete and totally misery and pain of their short lives from the moment they are born, not to mention the years of misery and pain that their poor mothers feel. And take note, I'm not using hyperbole to boost the 'tear jerker' effect of this story, but speaking only the absolute truth. From having their tiny scrotums sliced open and testicles ripped out (without anesthetic) to having their tiny teeth broken off with pliers, to the inability of their mothers being able to move at all for years at a time (can you imagine your own body if you were so confined for years) and all the other tortures that the other animals are born into and die after.... For a pig, six months of hell, for chickens six weeks of hell, dairy cows, six years of filth and misery, their calves........it's all misery. And it's supported by the consumer who propels it along by your dollars. If you support it by buying it, you are part of it and that's just the plain truth of the matter.

A cross examination implies that something in this issue is debatable, so I'm not cross examining you at all. I've 'debated' many times with people who eat meat and don't know what is involved or with people who eat meat and don't care that they are the cause of an ocean of suffering. And you are right, my heart is broken, but it's not broken for me, only for the ones who suffer and whom my change of eating choices cannot help. Because while approximately 100 animals per year won't be born to suffer because of me, there are billions who still have no hope and no future except to feel pain and misery. 'Top of the food chain', only because we have the imagination and lack of heart that makes all of this suffering possible. Take all our tools away and we would be the prey.

FYI I am a dog owner myself, or at least was because he died almost 7 years ago and here and then I still have a hard time getting over his death. You don't have to believe it if you don't want to, but I don't have to prove myself to the likes of you because I know better. I give not a single care in the world if you still suspect me to be an animal torturer or some sadistic staff member in an animal slaughterhouse.

So what? The slaughter of animals for food happens for thousands of years already dating back to prehistoric times, and is not likely to stop anytime soon. So what are you going to do about it? Animals get slaughtered and eaten, wether by other animals or by humans. That's life, and life ISN'T fair. And trust me when I say so, I can write an entire book about why life isn't fair. If you insist on blaming all the world problems on us meat eaters be my guest, but know that I will NOT stop eating meat because of some hardcore vegans crying their eyes out of their sockets. I respect your food of choice, but in return I ask you to do the same.

And for Christ's sake let me repeat it again once more before this escalates even further; even though I eat meat, I am still AGAINST animal cruelty and unncecessary suffering in slaughterhouses.
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  #28  
Old 16-03-2017, 01:29 AM
Tobi Tobi is offline
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Your dog will be okay Slayer. My own dog showed me that, when little else could. And...might even be beside you at times. Because animals have Souls.
Yeah I know, it doesn't stop us really missing them. Missed my girlie today so I did, while walking on a perfect Spring day on Earth which we would have shared once. But she showed me how happy she is where she's gone. It took me absolutely by surprise too when that happened years ago!
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  #29  
Old 16-03-2017, 01:33 AM
Lucky 1 Lucky 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debrah
If you quit eating meat at a particular point, you have enough B12 stored in your liver to last at 'top' levels for about 6 years, but at about 20 the store is depleted. Unfortunately, by that time, the damage is done and dementia will have to become your friend. So don't quit supplementing B12. Go ahead and get everything else strictly from your diet, but B12 is non-negotiable. That is what I've been reading and I've also read in a number of instances, that researchers have found frequently, that veg'ns are deficient in B12.

As well, I can't help but wonder if it isn't possible that those Indian veg'n who never supplemented, didn't frequently lead agricultural lives or had food prepared for them by people who worked in the soil and if they didn't get their B12 needs met because hygiene was not what we live with today? Dirty, soiled hands that haven't been sanitized would have 'contaminated' the foods consumed and B12 is a bacteria that grows in the soil.


I find myself thinking that any diet that requires mandatory supplementation to stay healthy on doesn't sound like a diet anyone should be eating.
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  #30  
Old 16-03-2017, 12:58 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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You supplement your diet too. It's just that you use the broken tortured bodies of helpless animals to do it.
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