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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Astral Projection

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  #1  
Old 14-12-2018, 05:47 PM
Untersberg56 Untersberg56 is offline
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The Strange First Apparition of the Virgin Mary

The Apostle James the Greater left Jerusalem after the crucifixion to preach the gospels far and wide.

By the year 39 he had reached Caesar-Augustus (nowadays Zaragoza) in Spain and was finding his mission unfruitful. By tradition on 12 October of the year 40, at the river Ebro believing that his mission was destined to fail, he saw the first-ever apparition of the Virgin Mary atop a nearby 6-foot tall standing stone and surrounded by two or more angels.

Giving him a pillar of jasper and statue of Herself with child, She commanded him to build a temple in her honour at that place(**). It is today the Basilica of Our Lady of the Pillar and the original jasper pillar and statue are still kept there.

The interesting thing about this Apparition is that Mary the Virgin Mother of Jesus was still alive in the year 40 and never went to Spain.

There have been hundreds of authenticated apparitions of the Virgin Mary in the almost 2000 years since Zaragoza. So, was the first apparition an Astral Projection of the living Mary? Or a female Archangel posing as the Virgin Mary?

(**) See details of this Apparition for example by Googling "Zaragoza Spain Apparition, Cathetel".)
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  #2  
Old 14-12-2018, 10:32 PM
OmDaath OmDaath is offline
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Some people see visions/ apparitions without having to Astral Project.
Causes can be various. Praying, meditating, fasting, extreme physical exertion, chemical substance use, mental illness.

I personally would think Virgin Mary was and is known in a symbolic way.
I would even assume the whole story has allegorical explanation, not a literal one.
But who knows, even if it would make less sense to take it literally, it could be a possibility that he Astral Projected.
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  #3  
Old 15-12-2018, 03:54 AM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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There are similar such stories about other spiritual beings.

Once Neem Karoli Baba was in Allahabad. Some of his devotees built a temple in Panki so they asked Maharajji to come to the opening ceremony but he refused. But on the day of the ceremony, Baba locked himself in the room in Allahabad, saying he doesn’t feel well and asked for the doors to be opened again for visitors only at 12 o’clock. It was 7 in the morning. Everything went on as established and, at 12 o’clock, Neem Karoli Baba opened the door of his room. Next morning, the devotees from Panki showed up in Allahabad with a basket of offerings. They said that the previous day, Maharajji was together with them the whole morning, but in 12 o’clock he suddenly disappeared, without tasting the offerings, so they came to bring them to him.

And Nancy Cooke de Herrera tells of a devotee of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who was dying of cancer in hospital. The devotee had been told by Maharishi that he would be with her when she died. One night a group of devotees were with Maharishi elsewhere at about 2.00am talking when he suddenly excused himself and went upstairs for about ten minutes. The next day they heard that the devotee in hospital had died during the night. The nurses on duty at the hospital reported that a bearded man in robes had appeared at the hospital with a bunch of roses at about 2.00am and had gone into the devotee's room where he stayed for some minutes.

So bilocation (being in two places at the same time) is not limited to the Virgin Mary.

Peace.
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  #4  
Old 15-12-2018, 02:12 PM
Untersberg56 Untersberg56 is offline
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OmDaath thinks that the apparitions of the Virgin Mary are "symbolic" or "allegorical" and make little sense to him if taken literally.

It was so that this apparition should be taken literally that at Zaragoza She presented to James the Greater a pillar of jasper and a statuette of Herself and child, a tangible gift which still exists to this day.

A similar and even better example involving tangible evidence still in existence resulted from the apparition of the Virgin known as Our Lady of Guadelupe at Tepeyac Hill, near Mexico City, on 12 December 1531 to Juan Diego. He wore a jacket of cactus fibre which should have rotted away naturally after twenty years at most but remains in the same condition as the day when She imprinted into the fabric a living image of Herself and the heavenly constellations on that day.

Apparition + tangible physical evidence=to be taken literally.
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  #5  
Old 15-12-2018, 10:50 PM
OmDaath OmDaath is offline
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From an original post, it wasn't clear that she gave him those items and they still exist. Now with that info my answer would be:

Usually Astral Projection experiences happen in ''Astral planes'', where it's located, is speculated. Different density, dimension, whatever.
So far I haven't experienced, or heard of a case where you bring physical, tangible items out of such an experience.
So then I would guess, that no it wasn't an Astral Projection that happened to the Apostle James the Greater.

Still I wonder, why would an apparition hand someone a statuette. I hope you are aware of made up stories for the purpose of maintaining control and such, back in those times. Rewritten bibles and so on.
Is the story translated correctly, word-for-word exactly? There are a lot of stories made to be understood symbolically and allegorically, and then supported by literal physical artifacts. Which are not to be taken literally, nor were they made to confuse people. Like any form of art, paintings and such, sculptures and statuettes - a ''synopsis'' of a story/message/parable, made into a work of art.

It could be that the story was lost in translation, or interpretation. Some parts are literal others are not.
Would be hard to argue with laws of physics. Even though there probably are realms and beings, worlds which we don't see, science is expanding and begin to explain more and more of such phenomena. However I'd love to see an apparition being able to manifest into a dense, physical reality something like a statuette.
Not saying that story isn't true.
Perhaps Apostle James the Greater was tired of walking deserts.

Note the many hoaxes like weeping statue, created by people hungry for money, fame or whatever it is they want. ''These events are generally reported by some Christians, and initially attract some pilgrims, but are in most cases disallowed by the Church as proven hoaxes.''
Be aware, don't be deluded into believing in every single thing that is related to your belief system. It wouldn't take away from your faith or intelligence to be discriminating.
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  #6  
Old 16-12-2018, 01:41 PM
Untersberg56 Untersberg56 is offline
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OmDaath, many thanks for your reply, and of course there is much truth in what you say. The online site "Miracle Hunter" for example lists all known claimed apparitions of the Virgin Mary since the year 40 and indicates the degree of credence awarded, from the Holy See down to mere "traditional" and below that "no credence".

Although the first apparition occurred in the year 40, written records of the event were apparently kept in Spain. After James the Greater was executed upon his return to Jerusalem, his body was then conveyed back to Spain and interred at Compostela at the request of the local authorities.

Since my conversion to Mariolatry twenty years ago I have taken the greatest interest in the apparitions since finding the numerological structure which underlies them. Certain statements made by apparitions are also very striking, for example when She states that She wants this or that done (Amsterdam, 1945-1959) or points to a biblical error (rectified in 1854 by agreeing that Mary the mother of Jesus had herself been born of a Virgin): and in other cases when She appears to be going too far and the Church will not agree to intervene.

I am surprised at the honesty of the Church in publishing the text of these conversations at all: I wonder at times if the Church acts under duress in being forced to report exactly what She says (if you understand what I am implying by that).

The cases in which the corpses of visionaries (e.g. the 1830 and 1917 apparitions) who had conversations with the apparition are found to be incorrupt when re-interred after many years in the ground are in my opinion always a fairly strong pointer to the veracity of the report of that apparition.

The desire for certain political reactions to occur on Earth are rarely expressed by the apparition, and always when the event intended to be corrected is one currently affecting Christian religious belief adversely but the action is then always taken by a human agency. I noticed this through numerology. This kind of thing may then go awry and not be carried through as hoped, have the most awful result and be quite misunderstood by the rest of us.

I hope this has covered the points you have made.
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  #7  
Old 16-12-2018, 02:24 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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For me ...bi-locating is nothing new...my ex-guru did it too...saved a life
by appearing....
oh and for a 'non-devotee', ha....and she she still did not believe
it was 'not him'...cuz he was out of the country at the time, our devotee friend told her.

My ques would be why would a female Archangel pose as Mary to anyone?
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Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
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  #8  
Old 16-12-2018, 04:35 PM
Untersberg56 Untersberg56 is offline
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The Church of Rome at Ephesus, Turkey declared the Virgin Mary to be Theotokos or "Mother of God" in the 5th century.

Ephesus was home to the magnificent Temple to Artemis Diana, one of whose titles was "Queen of Heaven". So the Church called Her, "Mary, Queen of Heaven" and "Queen of the Angels."

They must have had their reasons.

Since Her declaration made at Amsterdam in the 1950s, there is reason to think that all the the apparitions of the Virgin Mary including the first, were performed by the Queen of the Angels who is Mary, or acts in the name of the Virgin Mary on Her behalf.
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  #9  
Old 16-12-2018, 07:28 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Untersberg56
The Church of Rome at Ephesus, Turkey declared the Virgin Mary to be Theotokos or "Mother of God" in the 5th century.

Ephesus was home to the magnificent Temple to Artemis Diana, one of whose titles was "Queen of Heaven". So the Church called Her, "Mary, Queen of Heaven" and "Queen of the Angels."

They must have had their reasons.

But were these reasons based on spiritual knowledge or the desire to promote a particular agenda? The Church of Rome has come up with many declarations over the centuries, usually to support their own belief system.

There are other stories of bilocation, for example Apollonius of Tyana, St. Anthony of Padua and the 20th century monk Padre Pio.

Re Anthony of Padua:

One early account comes from the early 13th century, with St. Anthony of Padua, who was a Portuguese Franciscan friar and qualified medical doctor, and who was widely considered to be one of the finest physicians of the church. St. Anthony was known as a prolific worker of miracles, especially when it came to miraculous healings, and this earned him many nicknames, such as “The Wonder-Worker of Padua” and the “Evangelical Doctor.” Just as impressive was his apparent ability to be in two places at the same time. One of the most well-known and well-documented of these strange displays allegedly occurred during a service on Easter Sunday at the Cathedral of Montpellier. At the time there was a great congregation of both worshippers and other clergymen who had come to watch his sermon, but at one point Anthony realized that he had forgotten that he was to be singing on a choir at a nearby monastery at that very moment. In full view of everyone, he then calmly withdrew into the shadows of the pulpit and pulled his cowl around his face before proceeding to stand there silently and immobile. At that very instant he appeared among the choir at the other monastery singing. When the choir was finished, the still, silent body at the Easter service suddenly sprang back into action again and he continued as if nothing had happened, speaking with “incomparable eloquence.”

Re Padre Pio:

Ellie Hunt’s family came from Padre Pio’s hometown of Pietrelcina and had known Padre Pio from his childhood. They eventually emigrated from Italy to New York. In 1960, when Ellie was 31 years old her grandfather, Jack Crafa became gravely ill. Ellie and her parents lived close to his home in Flushing, New York and during his grave illness, the family stayed by his side. When Jack eventually fell into a coma, they all knew that his life was soon passing.

One day while Ellie and her parents were at her grandfather’s bedside, a stranger knocked at the door. They were all surprised to see a Capuchin monk dressed in a dark brown habit, because there were no Capuchin monks in their Parish or in any other parish in the area for that matter. They were also surprised to see that he was wearing sandals without any socks, because it was a particularly cold day and snow covered the ground. The monk said that he had come to pray for her grandfather. Ellie was also a bit upset, because she thought that the parish priest should have come to pray for her grandfather, and not a complete stranger. However, she was soon impressed by the kindness and compassion of the young monk.

He then went straight into her grandfathers bedroom and blessed Jack Crafa. Then told the family to pray the Rosary suggesting that they sit at Jack’s side, praying the Hail Mary close to his ear, for he seemed to have the opinion that Jack was still able to hear. After the monk said that, Ellie was surprised to find that when she took her grandfather’s hand in hers, she felt a response from a very slight squeeze from his hand.

The young Capuchin then gave Ellie’s grandfather the Last Sacraments, then he blessed the family and bid them goodbye. As he walked out the front door, Ellie’s father, James noticed that there was no car waiting for him outside. James watched him as he walked up the street until he disappeared in the darkness. Jack Crafa died that very night. He had been in a coma for nine days.

After the unknown monk had left, Ellie’s father James became pale and appeared quite shaken. Ellie’s mother Lucy, asked him for the reason.”Don’t you know who that was?” James replied, “It was Padre Pio. He came to give the Last Rites to your father and he looked exactly like I remember him when I used to deliver eggs to him in Pietrelcina.”


Peace.
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