What is of the spirit is spirit; science is about matter

Originally Posted by Rawnrr

I think you greatly underestimate human potential.

So there is scientific evidence for spirit? That's wonderful. Can you show me please?

Originally Posted by Shabda

i fully agree with you, if this were not so, then there wouldn't be any famous mystics in history at all...

Mystics aren't scientists though. Belief in a mystic requires faith.

Originally Posted by Ecthalion

So there is scientific evidence for spirit?

I think they use different words. Like for example "the zero point field". Imo, some parts of modern science are very close to some parts of religion and spirituality. Science is often talked about as the old mainstream science that worship Darwin and Newton. But a lot of stuff is going on and has been going on.

Zero point energy is an interesting phenomenon. I don't fully understand it but I don't think it is evidence of spirit. It has been known of for some time, but spirit is still undetected by science.

There may be other means of detecting spirit - our brains are still a mystery to us - but I think science can only understand this material universe.

[Rawnrr]

Originally Posted by Ecthalion

So there is scientific evidence for spirit? That's wonderful. Can you show me please?

I said there is "Potential"...never said it is done yet.
Who knows what mysteries will be uncovered as we explore deeper into the quantum and beyond.

IMO, the mind has a tendency to "thing" processes. Science and Spirituality are both processes or verbs that have becomed thinged. Science is just a doing like running or walking and in the end, imo if one believes there is a difference between running and walking, that difference is a difference in the mind only.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Ecthalion

Zero point energy is an interesting phenomenon. I don't fully understand it but I don't think it is evidence of spirit. It has been known of for some time, but spirit is still undetected by science.

Originally Posted by Ecthalion

There may be other means of detecting spirit - our brains are still a mystery to us - but I think science can only understand this material universe.

"Consciousness is not only a subtler form of matter, but also a more fundamental (basic)form.(From the book The Holographic Universe, by Michael Talbot.)"

Regarding effects in the world...
IN RESPECT TO PRAYER; out of the Quantum realm of probabilities, and multiple outcomes for every event, you order and accept what you are praying for, as if it has already occurred. Which involves the elimination of the concept of time, no?

"Mark 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them."

However? For the atheist, there never will be enough proof... until it is too late.
Who also eschews something called, "Faith".

Quantum Physics supports the teaching that reality is "Maya", an illusion, and what is out there is a symphony of wave forms, a "frequency domain" transformed into the world as we know it only after it enters into our senses.

True?

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Posted by a self described "Believer". (Not the atheist, of course.) Right Ecth?

That's right Morph

Originally Posted by Morpheus

However? For the atheist, there never will be enough proof, until it is too late.

I don't need scientific proof. I have my faith.

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Who eschews something called, "Faith".

To eschew:- deliberately avoid using; abstain from.
Do I avoid faith? No. I have it in abundance. But it doesn't come from science.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Ecthalion

I don't need scientific proof. I have my faith.

Yes, I was referring to the atheist.

Good to know, Ecth!

Originally Posted by Morpheus

For the atheist, there never will be enough proof... until it is too late.

What does this mean?

[r6r6]

Spirit-2 = phyiscal / energy.

Many people do not understand, that, fermionic matter is form of physical / energy.

Bosonic forces are another form of physical / energy.

This goes back to most people not having a basic understanding of a cosmic herirachy and various definitions of spirit.

1) Metaphysical-1 = mind/intellect and any concepts thereof and exists beyond occupied space and non-occupied space.
------------------------------------------------------
2) Metaphysical-2 is beyond occupied space and exsts as macro-micro finite non-occupied space.

3) our finite occupied space Universe composed of three and only three primary types of occupied space;

fermionic matter,
bosonic forces other than gravity, and,
gravity

This is such a simple heirarchy yet so few can grasp, much less accept the rational logica and common sense conclusion that it is.

Spirit-2 is metaphysical-1 of intention.

Our highest spiritual intent, is the integral support of our self, then our family, then our local community, then our global community and all of these include the integral support of the enviromental ecology that sustains all biological life on Earth.

Spirit-2 = physical / energy. imho but please check into a few dictionaries and see for yourself.

Ex a young colt or calf in the field kicking its heels high, is said to have a lot of spirit or a lot of energy, and that is because, spirit-2 = physical / energy.

Simple not complex concept to grasp. imho

r6