Our Spiritual Existence

Hi, I am confident that like a good deal of other members and guests of this forum I am saddend by the anti-spiritual element in our world today. I fully accept the rights of others and their belief systems, but so many atheists base their arguments against a spiritual aspect of life on religion and its all too true negative elements. We are told that science has taught us so much that we can no longer accept the "childish" need for a creative force outside of what we can see in the physical world. I want share with you all some of my views as well as some compelling arguments which point to a life based in the Spirit.

Firstly, the subject of evolution. We have a great wealth of evidence which would lead to the conclusion that life on earth has evolved and that natural selection has helped to shape the species on this planet. But there is no answer to the single most important question: what started it all off in the first place? If life on this planet is unique (and what a waste of space that would suggest) then there is only one planet with life and one single creation of life. Many atheist scientists argue that there are billions of planets in the universe that can potentially sustain life, so that indicates that creation of life is not unique, that is has happened billions of times all over the universe. But I would argue that no matter how many billions of times a creation happened it started somewhere and that creative force is what we know as God.

Secondly, there is a very compelling agrument for the existence of God, or a creative energy. This I quote from a very learned religious Cardinal Basil Hume. Everything depends on something to survive. Plants need soil and water, animals need food and water. All livings things need energy from the sun. All living things need oxygen. We depend on our orbit around the sun and it is the unique position of the planets in the solar system that prevent the earth from being destroyed by asteroids and the like from deep space. Logically it follows that the universe must depend on something "outside" to exist. That "outside" energy is what we call God or the creator.

Thirdly, we do not need to see, hear or feel something in the physical sense in order to believe it exists. We cannot see love but we know that it is the single most powerful force in the world. If we cannot see, hear or feel God in a physical sense, it doesn't follow that God doesn't exist.

So that's just a small part of the argument to go along with.

Love and Light

Jeremy

[Westleigh]

Yes, I think most people here will understand your thoughts. Human beings do seem to have a massively inflated ego over our scientific achievements - not to belittle the great amount of knowledge we have gathered, but most of us behave as if every question is answered by our scientific knowledge when the little pool of answered questions is only slightly less dwarfed by the pool of unanswered ones than it used to be. Every human era has been the same - the most advanced civilisation in every age seemed to think it had all the answers and was resistant to changing them.

It is unfortunate that in the minds of many people the concept of God is tied to religion (in the west, usually Christianity) and they cannot concieve of one without the other. Many atheists are highly intelligent men and women but they when asked about the existence of God they usually begin arguing science vs. the Bible as if the Bible is the only source of spiritual belief that exists. Sadly, religion has put many people off God and also, just as frustratingly, off the idea that science and God are compatible with one another.

I don't think belief in God is unscientific in the least. On the contrary, I think science and spirituality are the perfect compliment to one another and we will never achieve real understanding until we can reconcile them. Quantum physics is slowly bringing them into alignment with one another (fringe science, of course, but it cannot be so forever) and it is an interesting process to watch.

You just can't argue with those "I refuse to believe it until I see it" folks, though. Problem is that the only proof of spiritality is in personal experience and that doesn't fit the scientific definition.

[Emmalevine]

Originally Posted by Westleigh

It is unfortunate that in the minds of many people the concept of God is tied to religion (in the west, usually Christianity) and they cannot concieve of one without the other. Many atheists are highly intelligent men and women but they when asked about the existence of God they usually begin arguing science vs. the Bible as if the Bible is the only source of spiritual belief that exists. Sadly, religion has put many people off God and also, just as frustratingly, off the idea that science and God are compatible with one another.

.

I agree with this point. Many people (not all) have a very black and white view; religion or nothing. That isn't their fault but the product of this very Christian society. I was a Christian until I stumbled upon a spiritual path very accidently. Some time ago I was having a discussion about Jesus with an atheist friend of mine and told him my view that he was a human being like us who was very enlightened, but his truths had been misconstrued by people who wanted to make him a God, or forced to portray a certain view by the church. My friend's mouth dropped open...I could see it was a revelaton to even consider the fact that Jesus existed at all. In his view it was son of God or nothing.

Jeremy I agree wholeheartedly with your post; it is sad that spirituality has been forgotten in society. I do think we're entering a period of change though. Many people are getting in touch with their spiritual sides. There is a much greater awareness of it because people are looking for something more in their lives. Scientific developments such as quantum physics are contributing to this new awareness too, so I foresee a society where science and spirituality do meet and compliment each other.

Originally Posted by JeremyMM

Hi, I am confident that like a good deal of other members and guests of this forum I am saddend by the anti-spiritual element in our world today. I fully accept the rights of others and their belief systems, but so many atheists base their arguments against a spiritual aspect of life on religion and its all too true negative elements. We are told that science has taught us so much that we can no longer accept the "childish" need for a creative force outside of what we can see in the physical world. I want share with you all some of my views as well as some compelling arguments which point to a life based in the Spirit.

Firstly, the subject of evolution. We have a great wealth of evidence which would lead to the conclusion that life on earth has evolved and that natural selection has helped to shape the species on this planet. But there is no answer to the single most important question: what started it all off in the first place? If life on this planet is unique (and what a waste of space that would suggest) then there is only one planet with life and one single creation of life. Many atheist scientists argue that there are billions of planets in the universe that can potentially sustain life, so that indicates that creation of life is not unique, that is has happened billions of times all over the universe. But I would argue that no matter how many billions of times a creation happened it started somewhere and that creative force is what we know as God.

Secondly, there is a very compelling agrument for the existence of God, or a creative energy. This I quote from a very learned religious Cardinal Basil Hume. Everything depends on something to survive. Plants need soil and water, animals need food and water. All livings things need energy from the sun. All living things need oxygen. We depend on our orbit around the sun and it is the unique position of the planets in the solar system that prevent the earth from being destroyed by asteroids and the like from deep space. Logically it follows that the universe must depend on something "outside" to exist. That "outside" energy is what we call God or the creator.

Thirdly, we do not need to see, hear or feel something in the physical sense in order to believe it exists. We cannot see love but we know that it is the single most powerful force in the world. If we cannot see, hear or feel God in a physical sense, it doesn't follow that God doesn't exist.

So that's just a small part of the argument to go along with.

Love and Light

Jeremy

Whilst I agree with what you have written it is important to remember that, whilst everthing depends on something to survive (that's called Mother Nature) life on Earth is very short, no matter how hard she works. All of us are only here for on average 70 years (3 score years and ten) if we're lucky. It sounds a long time but it goes in a flash.


Life on Earth is a learning experience (not the answer to all questions) and "God" or the eternal energy does not have to be discovered by every individual in our lifetime. There is plenty of time afterwards to find Him/it.

I honestly believe that we are here to experience whatever is given to us in the here and now - either good or bad and we should stop dwelling on the "whys", "hows" and "whatevers". They all come later and everyone sees everything from their own point of view anyway.

Everyone here on Earth is at a different stage in their own spiritual development and it is foolish to think otherwise.

We will all experience enlightenment in one way or another, probably after death for some. Life on Earth is not about knowing everything but dealing with all the good and rough stuff (including differences in opinion and different spiritual levels) that is thrown at us.

We were all "born" at different times into different circumstances, at different levels (we agreed to all this stuff before we jumped down the shute into planet Earth) to challenge our individual learning needs.

To think that we should all sing from the same song sheet here is just folly. That stuff all comes later when we are qualified to enter that Kingdom called "Heaven".

Just my opinion of course.

Best wishes