Eckhart's greatest quote

Originally Posted by din

ideas or thoughts about how to make your life better, or what direction your life should take... are just that... just ideas...

who would you be without all those ideas???

My higher self descended to this level of experience, free from the game, going with the flow, LOL!

You're meant to be who you already are. God. The impersonal, formless, one consciousness.

Why have I got a physical body then ? What is the point of having a physical body?

I am a Spirit having a human experience but there is no need for that process. But then there is not much in the way of alternative unless we throw ourselves whole heartedly into Mr Tolles philosophy, then we can be both spectators and spectres in this life.
So some live life in the first person and others accept that this is not what it all is.

I think both apply. Why transcend the experience now when ultimately through no ammount of resistance that transcendation is assured anyway.

Mr Tolle advocates or rather suggests that bliss is attainable once you switch to observing your thoughts and shut your mind up, I assume it get's paranoid when it thinks it's being watched, I do not disagree with or challenge Mr Tolles work as andrew quiet rightly observes it is but one of many paths.

Originally Posted by Lisa
The fact that she came on HIS stage to try it says it all.

My mother LOVES Katie.

I rest my case.

The force runs strong in your family doesnt it?! Out of interest, does your mother have an opinion on Tolle?

Oh, she likes him. She even had a group to understand The Power of Now book- TWICE. (Naturally, she was the leader.) She even saw him with my sister and I, because she couldn't stand being left out. As a result she brought a big drama after the seminar- instead of peace that my sister and I were feeling- after such an awesome event!

Oh yeah, she likes Tolle, and falls asleep every time she tried to watch a Tolle video.

She likes Tolle and the Power of Now, and even teaches it, but doesn't get it at all.

But Oh Boy She LOVES and GETS Byron Katie!

As I said, I rest my case.


All Tolle has to do is smile a wee smile- and that sheguru is dust.

Kinda like me smiling at you.

Hehe kind of like Medusa.

Medisa!

Fortunately, with my 360 degree panoramic awareness I would see your deadly smile coming, use my shield of presence to protect myself and then smite you with joy.

I'll take the joy, now turn to stone, boy.

Originally Posted by meta_synthesis

OK you say it is awareness that watches thought. Thought occurs by itself, yes? And awareness is there and aware of the act of thought occurring.

Or, thoughts are occurring but you're not aware of them. Would you say the thoughts are occurring in reality, if you're not aware of them (for whatever reason?)

Question - are thoughts and awareness in anyway separate? If you say they are, can the distinction be made outside of thought itself? If the distinction is thought, and we agree that awareness watches thought, then how can that be a reliable and trustworthy description of a reality? Isn't it true that we cannot know weather awareness and thought are separate or not, without both awareness being present and thought forming an answer to my question? As such, we can't really know weather they are separate or not. Because the very idea of separation lies within thought. It's not pointing to thought and saying "we can't know because it's all thought" -- thereby using thought to make a distinction of what reality is. But merely recognizing this fact, rather than relying and pointing to thought. Big difference there.

I don't understand this. You're making a statement that "me" -- who I think I am and feel I am -- a person, a body, living in the world -- AM thoughts. A very clear statement. But then you really complicate it by saying that "I" am identified with MY thoughts. But dear, if I AM my thoughts, who is there to be identified with "my" thoughts?

Who/what is one's thoughts? Whose thoughts? What is identification with thoughts? Is that just more thought? Doesn't awareness just view this? Can awareness do anything else but be aware? Isn't any attempt to watch thoughts just a mind-movement that awareness is aware of? What is the difference between thoughts and thoughts that are "identified" with?

You seem to be indicating or outright admitting awareness can do something ELSE besides observe/watch whatever is occurring.

Saying "observe thought" is telling awareness to DO something. "Look over here at this!"

Speaking of it from the standpoint of BEING thought, how could I ever observe myself when I can only be myself? (the eye cannot see itself.)

You using thought to say that's what I think I am, and then after you set me up as this 'thought-entity' you knock me down by saying that is NOT who I am.

Get it straight. Am I or am I not thought?

And who are YOU to presume to tell ME who/what I am? How would you know?

That is your perspective (thought-based) point of view. It says nothing about me. It in fact has nothing to do with what/who I am.

Again flatly telling me what I am.

And the watcher is a product of thought.

To me there is no present moment. Well, there is, but it's only though thinking it comes into existence. So you're telling me thought is all there is, lol.

Um actually yeah there is. I'm living it. (I speak from experience rather than assumptions) *coughs*

It is your opinion that anyone who says "there is no person" is a true spiritual master. It is my opinion your opinion is worthless.

To me, weather there is, or is not a person, weather it has absolute reality, or seemingly reality, ALL has to do with what PERSPECTIVE is taken.

*rolls eyes*

If I already am God, the impersonal, formless, why do you even bother? Why bother with bringing up "person" at all, ever? If it has no existence, does not exist, ("as all true masters say" *gags*) then why talk about it? Why talk and bring up something that simply does not exist? How does it make someone a master to offer a perspective? To point to something that doesn't exist and say "that doesn't exist." I mean, ok?

So are you God, lisa? Or are you still a person? If you're still a person, how can you feel qualified to tell others what YOU yourself only suspect might be true of yourself?

Power that could devour me on sight, eh? *smirks*

That's a lot of questions, Meta.
If you want the answers-
Die.

Die before you die.

You still won't get the answers.
But the questions will disappear.
And there will be a great sigh of relief.

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by Lisa

Hehe kind of like Medusa.

Medisa!

Fortunately, with my 360 degree panoramic awareness I would see your deadly smile coming, use my shield of presence to protect myself and then smite you with joy.

I'll take the joy, now turn to stone, boy.

That was interesting what you said about your Mum. Im going to comment but Im aware obviously that Im only going on what you said there so I might be talking nonsense when I mention her.

I think there are many different kinds of spiritual seeker, all with slightly different interests. Im going to generalize a bit here and say that what Katie offers is a way of being engaged fully with the drama of life yet without being involved IN the drama itself. Its almost as if its a very sociable route to take, there is a lot of play involved. I can imagine your Mum likes people and likes stories a lot.

Whereas Tolle's way doesnt really enable us to engage fully with the drama of life. Its for people who like nature and stillness and a deep sense of Peace. To Tolle fans, Katie's route looks like it is very mind orientated. And it is compared to Tolle's route. Tolle is basically telling us to still thoughts or observe them from a distance, and Katie is saying there is nothing wrong with thought itself, its the attachment TO the thought as being true thats a problem.

As I said, I liked Tolle for a few years and during this period spent a hell of a long time walking the dog during that period. And then at about the time I read Katie I was being moved to re-engage more fully with the drama of life again.

Two different approaches. Im not saying one is better than the other, I think they both have their place, it just depends on what our interest is.

Neville-Why have I got a physical body then ? What is the point of having a physical body?

Better than this question, is being still and putting your attention in the inner energy field of the body, being in the body. Feeling your body from within.
Keep doing this, and the answer to your questions will come.

I am a Spirit having a human experience but there is no need for that process. But then there is not much in the way of alternative unless we throw ourselves whole heartedly into Mr Tolles philosophy, then we can be both spectators and spectres in this life.
So some live life in the first person and others accept that this is not what it all is.

Tolle is a spiritual master, teaching a spiritual way called the Power of Now.
It is not a philosophy. And unless one whole heartedly embraces this teaching, how can they really know anything about it?

Why transcend the experience now when ultimately through no ammount of resistance that transcendation is assured anyway.

It isn't assured. In fact, it rarely happens, though it is happening more now.
Most people go to their graves unaware of who they really are.
Lights out.

I do not disagree with or challenge Mr Tolles work as andrew quiet rightly observes it is but one of many paths.

Yes.

Originally Posted by andrew g

That was interesting what you said about your Mum. Im going to comment but Im aware obviously that Im only going on what you said there so I might be talking nonsense when I mention her.

I think there are many different kinds of spiritual seeker, all with slightly different interests. Im going to generalize a bit here and say that what Katie offers is a way of being engaged fully with the drama of life yet without being involved IN the drama itself. Its almost as if its a very sociable route to take, there is a lot of play involved. I can imagine your Mum likes people and likes stories a lot.

Whereas Tolle's way doesnt really enable us to engage fully with the drama of life. Its for people who like nature and stillness and a deep sense of Peace. To Tolle fans, Katie's route looks like it is very mind orientated. And it is compared to Tolle's route. Tolle is basically telling us to still thoughts or observe them from a distance, and Katie is saying there is nothing wrong with thought itself, its the attachment TO the thought as being true thats a problem.

As I said, I liked Tolle for a few years and during this period spent a hell of a long time walking the dog during that period. And then at about the time I read Katie I was being moved to re-engage more fully with the drama of life again.

Two different approaches. Im not saying one is better than the other, I think they both have their place, it just depends on what our interest is.

I can go with that.

I will say that Tolle says the same thing-

"there is nothing wrong with thought itself, its the attachment TO the thought as being true thats a problem."

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by Lisa

I can go with that.

I will say that Tolle says the same thing-

"there is nothing wrong with thought itself, its the attachment TO the thought as being true thats a problem."

Cool :) :)

[Emmalevine]

Sorry posted twice and wrong name! Please delete mods..

[Emmalevine]

Originally Posted by Neville

Why have I got a physical body then ? What is the point of having a physical body?

I am a Spirit having a human experience but there is no need for that process. But then there is not much in the way of alternative unless we throw ourselves whole heartedly into Mr Tolles philosophy, then we can be both spectators and spectres in this life.
So some live life in the first person and others accept that this is not what it all is.

I think both apply. Why transcend the experience now when ultimately through no ammount of resistance that transcendation is assured anyway.

Mr Tolle advocates or rather suggests that bliss is attainable once you switch to observing your thoughts and shut your mind up, I assume it get's paranoid when it thinks it's being watched, I do not disagree with or challenge Mr Tolles work as andrew quiet rightly observes it is but one of many paths.

I agree with you Neville. I do enjoy and get a lot out of Tolle's work but it isn't necessarily going to be the path for all. It took me a good few years before I could get anything out of his teachings because they just weren't right for where I was at. These days I understand and apply them where I want to. I struggle with remaining ever present as I like my mind, I like my thoughts and as long as I don't attach myself to them I don't have to watch them all the time to achieve bliss.