Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spirituality

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old 13-09-2019, 09:58 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: अनुगृहितोऽस्म
Posts: 16,003
  BigJohn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by r6r6r
1} Let me try this again, fro 20 years or more on various forums and on this one for two or more Ive stated what you have regarding multipe { many differrent } definitions ergo old news. Check my past reply to you ifor confirmation of such,


2} over those 20 years or more, my readings of dictionary definitions is not 'ignorance' or "ignoring" so please adjust your claims of me accordingly,


3} based on my dictionary informed definitions --not recent-- Ive long ago came to my conclusion, that, for whatever reason, you do not understand, even tho your state is "only one of the defintions of sou",


ergo you see a direct dictionary definition ---correlation between-- soul and biologic yet you claim you dont understand.


I think you 'do follow my drift' but apparrently disagree with my conclusion, without having the conscious ability to state your disagreement with my conclusion.


Nor do you offer what your conclusion is for explaining and/ or defining what soul is. Please share when you do and especially so if you have one that is based on;


.....1a} observed evidence, I observe humans, I observe at least one dictionary correlation between soul and biologics, and as already mentioned, often many times over the years Ive heard news commentators refer to those people who died as 'souls',


...1b} any rational, logical common sense and simple explanation.



Please share --if you so choose-- when you can address the issues I mention above, specifically as stated. Thank you.

And my guess is I can find more definitions for soul correlated to biologics other than just the one you found. Maybe I'm incorrect. I dunno. How bad do you want to find out what I may not have any idea what I'm talking about, and that it is you cannot understand how I came to me conclusion.
Please share if you so choose.

I have previously stated on this thread what I think about the soul. There are so many definitions for soul that it is debatable what is a soul and even if a soul exist. As a side thought, if you look at the history of the word "soul", it is as varied as it is today.
__________________


 
   ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜

        Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
   ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜



Last edited by BigJohn : 14-09-2019 at 10:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 14-09-2019, 01:00 AM
r6r6 r6r6 is offline
Newbie ;)
Master
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,071
  r6r6's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
"Zero" is a number ... Like in your case.




Zero is a non-counting number.
__________________
"Dare to be naive"... R. B. Fuller

"My education has been of my biggest impediments to my learning"...A. Einstein

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."...R Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 14-09-2019, 01:12 AM
r6r6 r6r6 is offline
Newbie ;)
Master
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,071
  r6r6's Avatar
Talking Soul = Biologic

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
I have previously stated on this thread what I think about the soul. There are so many definitions for soul that it is debatable what is a soul and even if a soul exist. As a side thought, if you look at the history of the word "soul", it is as varied as it is today.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
Soul has so many definitions I would say it is undefinable or possibly does not exist..


Soul = biological. Simple not complex.

Biological/soul

Intention { * ? * } and ego { i } > > arrow-of-time > > is forward and outward

Love ( ( oo ) ) and integrity { /\Y/\ } past < now < future is wholistically inward as one

"Unity is plural and at a minimum two"...Bucky Fuller
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Depends on how we define spirit. Some definitions of spirit, as energy is a form of matter.

Spirit-2, fermions, bosons and any aggregate collection thereof is physical/energy and occupy space.

Spirit-1 is metaphyiscal, mind/intellect/concepts and do not occupy space.

Spirit-3 gravity ( ) occupies space but is not physical/energy

Spirit-4 dark energy )( occupies space but is not physical/energy.
__________________
"Dare to be naive"... R. B. Fuller

"My education has been of my biggest impediments to my learning"...A. Einstein

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."...R Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 14-09-2019, 05:22 AM
neil neil is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ♡AUSTRALIA♡
Posts: 1,466
 
Soul = spiritual..if we choose to refer to it all as spiritual.

The entire organic physical = spiritual as well, because it is all made up of & from the invisible spiritual matter of the almighty one.

Persons who have not had experiences of a phenomenal kind can not understand or accept the above.
The above is what we are, we are soul entities living a spiritual existence of an organic kind. Via a non sentient, non intelligent & non aware finite body.
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 14-09-2019, 09:35 AM
Busby Busby is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,741
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil

Persons who have not had experiences of a phenomenal kind can not understand or accept the above.

.

Well I have had experiences of a phenomenal kind and I can't see why a soul (as said, whatever that may be) is needed - especially as we don't know what we are talking about.

Indeed I don't see why this universe needs any sort of supernatural additive, it is capable in itself of creating all manner of experiences.
__________________


The constantly promoted belief (induced by religions) that we are born to be good and obey (in order to enter heaven) is a tragic error in the concept of the universe's plan and an insult to mankind's intellect.

'A clear conscience is the sure sign of a bad memory'
- Mark Twain.
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 14-09-2019, 11:23 AM
neil neil is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ♡AUSTRALIA♡
Posts: 1,466
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
Well I have had experiences of a phenomenal kind and I can't see why a soul (as said, whatever that may be) is needed - especially as we don't know what we are talking about.

Indeed I don't see why this universe needs any sort of supernatural additive, it is capable in itself of creating all manner of experiences.

"In regards to this last paragraph of yours"....
.......Of course the universe does not need any supernatural additive. Because the universe that most people relate to, "is" the spiritual universe. And nothing in the "one & only spiritual universe" is of the supernatural....everthing of the magical spiritual universe is completely "natural"...& definately not supernatural.

I have many very very spot on reasons for knowing that we are not only an Earthly physical biological entity, living in a universe of only stars & planets etc, in galaxies. & that we just die out, when the physical biological body can no longer pump blood, oxygen, nutrition throughout itself etc.

One of those reasons is that i have had & seen phenomenal unexplainable experiences that not anyone on this site has yet spoken about...as i have said numerous times in the past.
& from those phenomena, I have seen beings without the flesh body, & of whom get around this planet and absolutely 100% disgustingly & unlovingly run amuck.

And I am able to see that these beings, have spiritual bodies that have deteriorated so badly that some of them are without arms & legs & or just withered completely back to the torso. facial features & heads that are caved twisted & just so disgustingly grose, & what is left of their torso, is buckled twisted deformed & so short.
& the texture & their complexion looks as though it has been bashed for the last month by Mike Tyson...not black & blue...But a combined blended mixture of bloody red dark blacks, blue etc.

& this is why they do not show themselves yet they allow themselves to be heard. & why they project different personalities through visions via our third eye...."deceptions that Earthlings have absolutely no concept of".
Because these beings prefer not to be seen as the beings that they have become, if the general public saw through their dark & discrete deception, & could see them for what they truely are, well, the general public would change their ways of being instantly.

& the reason these beings look so grose, is because they are the invisible Soul beings of which emanate a spiritual body..(emanate), & all Soul beings are all subject to the great one & only law of "reap as one sows", that has brought these beings into such a poor state of being.

This law does not work upon the emanated spiritual body, because the spiritual body is only an emanation of the quality of the "Soul'self"... "Of which we are".

Has anyone seen people of the Earth have their physical body growing so disgustingly ugly with every unloving thought....NO....& that is because we are not the Earthly biological body.

And secondly, i also know that any spiritual being can appear unseen. So how can they simply disappear, yet still be heard, as though they are still in the same location, as before being unseen. & yet still some Earthlings still hear their thoughts, but they are invisible to sight.

Well, that is because they are still there, because they are "more" than the spiritual body, they are the invisible Soul'self...they are not the spiritual body, as the spiritual body is just a non intelligent, non aware & a non conscious part of them & ourselves, just as the organic biological Earthly physical body is non conscious, non aware & non intelligent & not who we are.
Every part of us, that is not the invisible Soul, is subject to mind of Soul'self.

And, a person who has not had phenomenal experiences as such, can not fully grasp the concept of Soul, & or the severity & importance of steering well clear of unlovingness, because that great law wreaks absolute havoc on all Souls/Selves, of which we are...(& not what we have).

Believe it or not, as i TRUELY do not worry if anyone believes or not...
Also all of the above is for anyones considerations.

And ps..before you say it "Sky"...I already know that you do not believe it....And that I am also not concerned about.
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 14-09-2019, 05:42 PM
Siemens Siemens is offline
Knower
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 202
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
”Darwin's theory can't be proven'' is a nonsense statement. We can observe species adapt and change from DNA and existing species, be it micro-organisms or birds. There are many examples, from flightless birds to city birds,... .
When I say “Darwin's theory isn't proven” I mean that it is not proven that natural selection is the only force that leads to evolution. Even if there were natural selection this wouldn’t be the proof that natural selection alone caused the evolution of animals, plants and humans. There could also be a supernatural power that guides natural selection into the right direction.

Darwin’s theory therefore is not proven, since it claims that natural selection is the ONLY driving force of evolution. Atheists positively believe that natural selection is the only driving force of evolution – an unproven statement. So Atheism has its doctrine.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
However, when it comes to a magical creator or creationism there's nothing sensible about an agnostic position as nothing in nature suggests creation. We can explain nature without invoking a creator.
One common fallacy is the thought: “If we can explain something with theory A, theory A is proven”. It is actually clear that if we can explain evolution without supernatural power, this does not logically imply (or prove) that there is no higher power that guides evolution.
To say “there is no supernatural power that guides evolution because we already know that natural selection causes evolution” is about as naive as to say “no further factors cause cancer, since we know that smoking causes cancer.”



Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Atheists, the ones we are talking about, simply observe this world in a rational way, so any statement that consciousness derives from the brain is an observation, not a belief. A belief would be something additional such as saying.. ''there's an additional layer, the spirit, that 'uses' the brain as the primary organism for consciousness''. This extra layer, of which there is no scientific evidence, is either subjectively experienced or based on belief.
The fallacy in this statement is the assumption that a belief can only exist in form of a postulation of an additional layer or thing. That’s wrong because a belief can also exist in form of the insistence that one cause exclusively leads to a given phenomenon and the assertion that there are definitely no other causes. You could take the position that all causes for cancer that are known today are the ONLY causes for cancer that exist. This would be an atheist’s perspective which obviously is irrational. Only the agnostic view – in this regard the position that there can or can not be further causes for cancer – is rational. With this in mind, your supposition that atheists observe the world in a rational way isn’t true. Atheist's way of thinking is highly irrational.

The textbook we use in Clinical and Cognitive Psychology “Cognitive Psychology” (Sternberg, 2015) says it as follows:
“...A related error occurs when we fail to recognize that many phenomena have multiple causes. For example, a car accident often involves several causes. It may have originated with the negligence of several drivers, rather than just one. Once we have identified one of the suspected causes of a phenomenon, we may commit what is known as a discounting error. We stop searching for additional alternative or contributing causes. (p. 471)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
In any case, the atheist making a materialist statement is still most parsimonious.
There are other non-materialist theories that are more parsimonious than atheism. But first: How do you define parsimonious?
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 14-09-2019, 06:15 PM
Altair Altair is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Everywhere... and Nowhere
Posts: 6,631
  Altair's Avatar
Your reasoning that ''it isn't proven'' because it does not incorporate some 'supernatural power' is flawed. To put it simply, with the principle of parsimony we go with the simplest explanations that requires the least assumptions, and avoid unnecessary concepts. When we observe how life evolves on earth we do not require any supernatural power or god to explain how it evolves. In this case, god or supernatural power is an unnecessary concept.

That indeed does not mean there isn't a ''possibility'' that your god is guiding every single event in nature (which would lead to all sorts of contradicting issues, and a huge philosophical mess), however we simply do not need your god to explain it. You may entertain the ideas, just like you may entertain the idea that in a few minutes time you will come in as a sub in the current Norwich City vs Manchester City match.
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 14-09-2019, 06:57 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: अनुगृहितोऽस्म
Posts: 16,003
  BigJohn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Your reasoning that ''it isn't proven'' because it does not incorporate some 'supernatural power' is flawed. To put it simply, with the principle of parsimony we go with the simplest explanations that requires the least assumptions, and avoid unnecessary concepts. When we observe how life evolves on earth we do not require any supernatural power or god to explain how it evolves. In this case, god or supernatural power is an unnecessary concept.

That indeed does not mean there isn't a ''possibility'' that your god is guiding every single event in nature (which would lead to all sorts of contradicting issues, and a huge philosophical mess), however we simply do not need your god to explain it. You may entertain the ideas, just like you may entertain the idea that in a few minutes time you will come in as a sub in the current Norwich City vs Manchester City match.

You made some valid points in your argument.

But then, there are some people now, who are Christians, that believe it was God(s)/god(s) that created evolution.
__________________


 
   ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜

        Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
   ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜


Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 14-09-2019, 06:59 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: अनुगृहितोऽस्म
Posts: 16,003
  BigJohn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
Well I have had experiences of a phenomenal kind and I can't see why a soul (as said, whatever that may be) is needed - especially as we don't know what we are talking about.

Indeed I don't see why this universe needs any sort of supernatural additive, it is capable in itself of creating all manner of experiences.

Interesting observation.

Remove one variable (soul) and we seem to come up with the same answer: intriguing.
__________________


 
   ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜

        Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
   ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜


Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums