A Little About Science and Spirituality

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

Just a thought regarding your last paragraph. Yes I really do think most folks do turn their gaze high. I contend that since the first homowhatever looked up at the night sky the allure of the unknown became fixed in our group psyche. Or something like that. I also believe that we have innate knowledge of our spiritual natures. If not why all the interest in things spiritual at all? Why do there always seem to be temples and magicians and shamans in ancient lore? If we tended to find truth in places even with our gaze none of these other things would have held so much interest for so long.

Read the forum comments and find that so many speak of their guides as though they were extraordinary beings from far away. My reality is that, yes, most of us do have one guide, sometimes two, but these are human souls just like us except that they are a little more advanced than we are. In this I see many reaching to high places where the element of mystery better captures the imagination.

On a side note it is common for folks to practice spirituality in terms of their personalities. This practice makes detachment and thus high contact much harder to achieve. So the tie in is this.... To really have a solid spiritual connection one must look at least higher than the Earthly self.

Since beginning to channel Bartholomew some years ago I have come to realize that advanced souls are still people just like the rest of us. So I speak in plainer terms avoiding titles when possible and so on. Bartholomew? Who is he? He never told me. If I were to assume I might try to claim he was the Bartholomew of the twelve apostles. I don't because I don't know that. Is he my own soul? Maybe. When connected it sure feels familiar. To be successful as a channel though a little discipline is needed so I try not to carry on too much about the matter. I'll find out for sure in a couple of years when it's my turn to return to spirit.

James/Bart

Bart (do you prefer James?) hello there.

I suppose I myself never really turned my gaze up high looking for Source, but I did self-reflect. I agree with that bit...there is an innate compass within us all.

Abt guides -- interestingly ...I think that most folks may not realise that what they think of as their "guide" or the voice they hear or converse with, etc., is often their own "higher self" which at some point becomes completely integrated within their own perspective as simply who they are, or, their core self. But it may take a good while, many years, perhaps. Depending.

Some do seek human or once-human guides, perhaps many.
Currently, some find guides from earth, even the good ones, still overlaid with residual filters of consciousness...though clearly much less so than your average joe.

So some seek out human guides from elsewhere, where the wisdom is increased and the love/consciousness has fewer filters. And/or some may seek transcendental guidance, for the same reasons.

The bit about looking beyond just the earthly self is spot on, for certain
Completely agree.

Peace & blessings
7L

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Bart (do you prefer James?) hello there.

I suppose I myself never really turned my gaze up high looking for Source, but I did self-reflect. I agree with that bit...there is an innate compass within us all.

Abt guides -- interestingly ...I think that most folks may not realise that what they think of as their "guide" or the voice they hear or converse with, etc., is often their own "higher self" which at some point becomes completely integrated within their own perspective as simply who they are, or, their core self. But it may take a good while, many years, perhaps. Depending.

Some do seek human or once-human guides, perhaps many.
Currently, some find guides from earth, even the good ones, still overlaid with residual filters of consciousness...though clearly much less so than your average joe.

So some seek out human guides from elsewhere, where the wisdom is increased and the love/consciousness has fewer filters. And/or some may seek transcendental guidance, for the same reasons.

The bit about looking beyond just the earthly self is spot on, for certain
Completely agree.

Peace & blessings
7L

I believe that the introspective work that you suggest is a good way to free ourselves to soar to new heights. Remembering that when we leave this Earth we take only memories and wisdom gained. We leave our personalities behind. They are of the Earth and they die with temporal death. So... If we can manage to set the "self" aside we sort of emulate the release afforded by death. Kind of like getting a preview. This is the way I see it.

My position is that "higher self" is the soul. Nothing more or less.

I have firm belief regarding guides which do not include lofty spiritual figures of special nature. I ask: How can it be that an ordinary person would be able to withstand the energies of such a contact? Such ideas serve only to fuel the lower desire mind's imagination. No... Although it not my place to tell anyone they are beguiled I believe that a guide is just another soul who is known to us. But expanding this I will say that we too (our souls) become guides to others. This can happen without the personality knowing anything about it. No... I believe the business of guides is quite mundane and nothing to do with mysticism or flights of fancy. I say this for the sake of discussion only. It is certain that very advanced souls may have work to do which requires such contacts. I have a cautious attitude about the whole business. High spiritual beings are kept busy with concerns which are nothing to do with humanity. Why would such a soul (really a group of soul at those levels) be concerned with the doings of one human being on Earth? It is also my belief based on experience that very often a soul guide will appear to the personality in the form desired by the man or woman. So.... if one of us would be happier or feel good knowing they were contacted by an angel or some high spirit from afar the soul guide will use this appearance when in contact. I read a story once about a man who, on his death bed, was fearful of going to hell. After he passed his guide appeared to him as Satan just to shock him and teach him a lesson. Guides will also use other humans or even animals sometimes to communicate with a person. For instance in a society where having animal spirits as companions is a common belief it is really the soul guide appearing as an animal that is apparent. And... it is possible for a guide to call upon the soul of an animal to behave in a certain way towards a human resulting in the man or woman believing that the animal spirit is guiding them not realizing that it is a human soul guide using the animal soul instead. This is where the work of shamans is so very interesting. It is also known that should a man be in contact with an angel or some master guide it is really his own regular guide posing as the other. Guides are human beings just like us. But they work from the plane of souls so they have certain options in communication. These ideas result from much study and personal experience over the decades.

James (without Bart)

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

I believe that the introspective work that you suggest is a good way to free ourselves to soar to new heights. Remembering that when we leave this Earth we take only memories and wisdom gained. We leave our personalities behind. They are of the Earth and they die with temporal death. So... If we can manage to set the "self" aside we sort of emulate the release afforded by death. Kind of like getting a preview. This is the way I see it.

My position is that "higher self" is the soul. Nothing more or less.

Hello James!
So it sounds like we are agreed on that last, more or less.

However, it is also factual that many experience their higher self as separate from who they are in some way. The higher self may -- as we require -- appear to us as other than who we are at present, with a different name if that is important, and so forth. In this way we can be literally guided by ourselves when we have not yet come to a more fully integrated perspective and/or if folks are more comfortable in this way. And this is a fairly common occurrence...you hear folks speak of this all the time on SF over the years, and many more will refer to a guide that is such, even without realising.

I have firm belief regarding guides which do not include lofty spiritual figures of special nature. I ask: How can it be that an ordinary person would be able to withstand the energies of such a contact? Such ideas serve only to fuel the lower desire mind's imagination. No... Although it not my place to tell anyone they are beguiled I believe that a guide is just another soul who is known to us.

James...hahaha -- IMO this is borderline patronising, LOL. Surely you can do a bit better, eh?

First of all, let's all step back and realise no one of us knows all, even Bart. So it's important IMO to be kind and tolerant of others' beliefs and/or experiences...as we are no judge of either, frankly.

Secondly, it's important to realise that the concept that any being is "lofty" or somehow superior to us is a human concept, specifically your own in this case and probably shared by many, due to the conditioning of traditional religion and our traditions of our past.

There is no hierarchy, there is only difference. And any being at higher vibrations/energy levels/however we want to describe this will of course adapt to our human limitations for any communication. Your limits in spirit, as with all of ours, are truly your own and are yours to explore and penetrate and render permeable or null, as you see fit.

But expanding this I will say that we too (our souls) become guides to others. This can happen without the personality knowing anything about it. No... I believe the business of guides is quite mundane and nothing to do with mysticism or flights of fancy.

Again, you put your biases and judgments onto the perspective of others which have nothing at all to do with these terms you apply rather pejoratively. I would also say communication with any other sentient beings who are able to communicate with us is as normal and as mundane as any other, given that it is all "in spirit".

If you insist on the normality of your concepts of spiritual hierarchies and designations of some beings as loftier than humanity (a Gaian human concept almost meaningless elsewhere, including in our own near future IMO, though I respect your right to your opinions), that's fine but IMO it is hardly fair to label an only slightly more expansive and flatter view of guides and communications (no hierarchy of being in the sense of more or less lofty or removed in any intrinsic sense) as "flights of fancy".

Do you see how you disparage others (or attempt to do so) when you do this, and how unnecessary it is? You might simply say these are my beliefs and I stop here, and those are yours and I appreciate that your experiences may be different to mine.

I say this for the sake of discussion only. It is certain that very advanced souls may have work to do which requires such contacts. I have a cautious attitude about the whole business.

High spiritual beings are kept busy with concerns which are nothing to do with humanity. Why would such a soul (really a group of soul at those levels) be concerned with the doings of one human being on Earth?

James, this statement is based on a notion of superiority and hierarchy that exists only within humanity on earth at this time (or in similar places) because we are still entrenched in hierarchy and it is how many apprehend the notion of growth and of being. IMO and in my experience, this is in fact not the reality in spirit and has no meaning other than those constructs of hierarchy that we put upon it. Food for thought and with the greatest of respect. I am in no way saying your beliefs are "mysticism" or "flights of fancy".

It is also my belief based on experience that very often a soul guide will appear to the personality in the form desired by the man or woman. So.... if one of us would be happier or feel good knowing they were contacted by an angel or some high spirit from afar the soul guide will use this appearance when in contact. I read a story once about a man who, on his death bed, was fearful of going to hell. After he passed his guide appeared to him as Satan just to shock him and teach him a lesson. Guides will also use other humans or even animals sometimes to communicate with a person. For instance in a society where having animal spirits as companions is a common belief it is really the soul guide appearing as an animal that is apparent. And... it is possible for a guide to call upon the soul of an animal to behave in a certain way towards a human resulting in the man or woman believing that the animal spirit is guiding them not realizing that it is a human soul guide using the animal soul instead. This is where the work of shamans is so very interesting. It is also known that should a man be in contact with an angel or some master guide it is really his own regular guide posing as the other. Guides are human beings just like us. But they work from the plane of souls so they have certain options in communication. These ideas result from much study and personal experience over the decades.

James (without Bart)

I think all you say can and does apply to one's own higher self, but too it could apply to guides of ALL kinds, for certain. I apply no set limitations on guides when I say this...my experience is that the desire and the ability (both) to communicate with us in ways that we can apprehend and accept are common to all guides.

Peace & blessings James
7L

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hello James!
So it sounds like we are agreed on that last, more or less.

However, it is also factual that many experience their higher self as separate from who they are in some way. The higher self may -- as we require -- appear to us as other than who we are at present, with a different name if that is important, and so forth. In this way we can be literally guided by ourselves when we have not yet come to a more fully integrated perspective and/or if folks are more comfortable in this way. And this is a fairly common occurrence...you hear folks speak of this all the time on SF over the years, and many more will refer to a guide that is such, even without realising.


James...hahaha -- IMO this is borderline patronising, LOL. Surely you can do a bit better, eh?

First of all, let's all step back and realise no one of us knows all, even Bart. So it's important IMO to be kind and tolerant of others' beliefs and/or experiences...as we are no judge of either, frankly.

Secondly, it's important to realise that the concept that any being is "lofty" or somehow superior to us is a human concept, specifically your own in this case and probably shared by many, due to the conditioning of traditional religion and our traditions of our past.

There is no hierarchy, there is only difference. And any being at higher vibrations/energy levels/however we want to describe this will of course adapt to our human limitations for any communication. Your limits in spirit, as with all of ours, are truly your own and are yours to explore and penetrate and render permeable or null, as you see fit.


Again, you put your biases and judgments onto the perspective of others which have nothing at all to do with these terms you apply rather pejoratively. I would also say communication with any other sentient beings who are able to communicate with us is as normal and as mundane as any other, given that it is all "in spirit".

If you insist on the normality of your concepts of spiritual hierarchies and designations of some beings as loftier than humanity (a Gaian human concept almost meaningless elsewhere, including in our own near future IMO, though I respect your right to your opinions), that's fine but IMO it is hardly fair to label an only slightly more expansive and flatter view of guides and communications (no hierarchy of being in the sense of more or less lofty or removed in any intrinsic sense) as "flights of fancy".

Do you see how you disparage others (or attempt to do so) when you do this, and how unnecessary it is? You might simply say these are my beliefs and I stop here, and those are yours and I appreciate that your experiences may be different to mine.

James, this statement is based on a notion of superiority and hierarchy that exists only within humanity on earth at this time (or in similar places) because we are still entrenched in hierarchy and it is how many apprehend the notion of growth and of being. IMO and in my experience, this is in fact not the reality in spirit and has no meaning other than those constructs of hierarchy that we put upon it. Food for thought and with the greatest of respect. I am in no way saying your beliefs are "mysticism" or "flights of fancy".


I think all you say can and does apply to one's own higher self, but too it could apply to guides of ALL kinds, for certain. I apply no set limitations on guides when I say this...my experience is that the desire and the ability (both) to communicate with us in ways that we can apprehend and accept are common to all guides.

Peace & blessings James
7L

All of this reminds me of the fluidity of truth and the way it seems to move this way or that to accommodate the observer. Because you are not a neophyte I was more direct than usual considering such cautions unnecessary. In our discussion we have compared opinions based on each of two platforms of vision, modified by experience. There is great value in that.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

All of this reminds me of the fluidity of truth and the way it seems to move this way or that to accommodate the observer. Because you are not a neophyte I was more direct than usual considering such cautions unnecessary. In our discussion we have compared opinions based on each of two platforms of vision, modified by experience. There is great value in that.

Hello there James and thanks for your response. I agree with the fluidity of truth as we can only apprehend and process what we are able to do at any given moment. Also there are the individual differences in the observer as you noted. Hierarchies in general do little for me, though a more level and fluid task differentiation can make sense in context.

I am all for direct speech as long as we're generally courteous and respectful of one another. Direct speech in no way precludes courtesy and respect, unless we additionally choose to preclude those things. In other words, courtesy and respect for others equally to ourselves are not unnecessary cautions. They are fundamental to both sustainable social discourse and collective human development -- and equally fundamental also to our individual spiritual development, as I see it. As voices come to the fore that were not historically heard -- as folks come forward who were not historically seen (on a par) -- we as a human collective have to stretch ourselves to grow and to relate to an ever-increasing pool of humanity with parity, as equals, rather than from a rung on the hierarchy. It is a stretch and a challenge for huge portions of humanity, and so we can view this as a time of great expansion, learning and growth.

Exception being, IMO sterner speech might be warranted if I were frivolously or irresponsibly advocating drug use, unprotected or uncommitted sex, any violence or abuse, and/or other activities that egregiously harm you or others, or otherwise pandering to your vulnerabilities, your violent or destructive appetites, and/or any addictive tendencies you might have. In that case, do call me out as that would be rather heinous, amoral, and narcissistic of me

And I do very much agree with the importance of sharing different perspectives and learning more about how others see the world.
I look forward to discussing other fascinating aspects of life and of spirit with you and others here . Where else can we do this so easily with so many?

Peace & blessings
7L

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hello there James and thanks for your response. I agree with the fluidity of truth as we can only apprehend and process what we are able to do at any given moment. Also there are the individual differences in the observer as you noted. Hierarchies in general do little for me, though a more level and fluid task differentiation can make sense in context.

I am all for direct speech as long as we're generally courteous and respectful of one another. Direct speech in no way precludes courtesy and respect, unless we additionally choose to preclude those things. In other words, courtesy and respect for others equally to ourselves are not unnecessary cautions. They are fundamental to both sustainable social discourse and collective human development -- and equally fundamental also to our individual spiritual development, as I see it. As voices come to the fore that were not historically heard -- as folks come forward who were not historically seen (on a par) -- we as a human collective have to stretch ourselves to grow and to relate to an ever-increasing pool of humanity with parity, as equals, rather than from a rung on the hierarchy. It is a stretch and a challenge for huge portions of humanity, and so we can view this as a time of great expansion, learning and growth.

Exception being, IMO sterner speech might be warranted if I were frivolously or irresponsibly advocating drug use, unprotected or uncommitted sex, any violence or abuse, and/or other activities that egregiously harm you or others, or otherwise pandering to your vulnerabilities, your violent or destructive appetites, and/or any addictive tendencies you might have. In that case, do call me out as that would be rather heinous, amoral, and narcissistic of me

And I do very much agree with the importance of sharing different perspectives and learning more about how others see the world.
I look forward to discussing other fascinating aspects of life and of spirit with you and others here . Where else can we do this so easily with so many?

Peace & blessings
7L

You have been using the term "hierarchy". Usually that word refers to some organized (group) authority but What, exactly do you mean?




James

[linen53]

I only read your original post so apologize if this has already been discussed further in the thread (please point me to the corresponding post, if so). When you spoke on everything being a part of Source (please fill in your preferred title, if you wish), I see it as a signature of what has created everything we have/are. And what comes to mind is music/sound/notes/tones (I could take a little of each one of those descriptive words to culminate what I am trying to say) maybe even with that electrical charge you spoke of! A synchronizing sound/energy between the Creator and Created (including us!). Can you elaborate on this in detail if you can if you know of such?

Yes an assemblage of great spiritual beings who are so advanced our human mind and our spiritual mind (after we die) cannot comprehend just how advanced they are. This excites me! I still pinch myself occasionally to have been created into such an environment that is based on love.

Have you done a talk on the dark forces James/Bartholomew? I hear of spiritual wars but it's information "out there" with no rhyme or reason for me. How are we being protected from this war zone front?

In explanation of what I am trying to get at, I do know we have dark forces here on this Earth at this time. I had much exposure to them when I was a child (not by my choice). But to me they were disembodied young souls who were Earth bound for the most part. There were a few that I was forced to encounter that might not have been as such, but I can't be sure, I was so young and I have been protected from such forces since that childhood experience by my Guides/Protectors/Angels whatever you want to call them. But I'd like to understand where is where and what is what. Both the wars and what is allowed here on Planet Earth 3D.

I am careful to not listen to fear talk (I don't think I've ever read any of your teachings that were fear based) so I don't read much on the subject.

I remember once reading in a book about when we die we have to get through this realm and that realm with bogey men everywhere ready to 'nab' us and hold us captive. I closed that book right there. I figure as many times as I've been through incarnations I will know where I need to go when I die and my 'people' who have been assigned to me on the spiritual side, will make sure I get where I need/want to be.

I so appreciate your contributions to knowledge from the other side.

Originally Posted by linen53

I only read your original post so apologize if this has already been discussed further in the thread (please point me to the corresponding post, if so). When you spoke on everything being a part of Source (please fill in your preferred title, if you wish), I see it as a signature of what has created everything we have/are. And what comes to mind is music/sound/notes/tones (I could take a little of each one of those descriptive words to culminate what I am trying to say) maybe even with that electrical charge you spoke of! A synchronizing sound/energy between the Creator and Created (including us!). Can you elaborate on this in detail if you can if you know of such?

L53 this thread has gotten so complex that I wonder if I could find any specific thing in it to answer your question but let me just try to recap what I meant by "part of soruce". That phrase "part of" implies separation. Let's not use it please. Consider the great assemblage which expresses. Do not think here of humans or master souls or angels or anything else that we might know a little about. This entity which is in no way a singular being is far beyond any knowable thing not just for us but for the highest master soul associated with our planet too. At this apex which is indescribable is consciousness and a mighty will expressing livingness. It has a body which was caused by and which expresses that will. That body is the field of consciousness in which creation is. So... Every bit of matter on any plane of existence from the highest to the lowest constitutes the body of the "creator"; shares in that consciousness, is conscious. All created material manifests the consciousness of the creator. This is the explanation of why all is conscious. From a subatomic particle to the lesser gods that serve the "plan", all are a part of the field of awareness which is the ultimate creative source. Mind you it is not correct to say that created matter has consciousness. Such a statement would imply that there might be some matter which is not conscious. Much better to say that created matter is conscious. And that this is the case because all of it constitutes the body of manifestation of the source. There is no separation in any of this. No duality.

All of creation, spiritual and physical is not part of the source.... it IS the source. This is sort of a mystery that is sometimes referred to by mystics when they declare "oneness with the creator". Jesus was one such. He spoke of this very thing when He was on trial. We misunderstand His words though. We take Him to be saying that He and Father are "one" meaning He was God. Not true. Jesus meant that everything in creation, all of us and Himself too, actually was God (God's body). The idea is far beyond easy description and is, for most of us, a bit too much to swallow.

Consider the correspondences here and look again at the "source" and it's ongoing activity. Can we know of this? Not directly but we can find correlations in every day living. As God creates so do we. When we think we create on both the mental and the astral planes. On those planes the resulting forms are tangible and will endure. When we create on the physical those things are tangible but less enduring because of the nature of lower physical matter. But they are literally "of us" because we sourced them. Our personal vibes are present in them. If we write a song or whistle a tune we are engaging in creation too. In the first case the new musical arrangement will also be identified with us and will tend to endure. In the case of the whistled tune this effect is also true but it is manifested on the astral and will only endure until it is removed. But nothing is lost. The energy correspondence of anything we may make returns to the source... eventually. This is because we, using our minds, have the ability to both create and sustain. In this we are emulating the creator through the lower assemblage we call the hierarchy of the planet whose activities include the maintenance of the planet for the lives it hosts. Consider this: Every time something additional is created the source expands and encompasses it. All is one with (a part of) the creator. No exceptions.

There is occasional talk of the way that sound precipitates creativity through the agency of manipulated matter be it on the physical or some other plane. There is truth in this. The law of correspondence applies. There is a hidden aspect to this though. We sometimes have this ability on the physical plane but advanced souls have a greater range of practice.

I'm going to stop here. I hope I covered the correct things.

Originally Posted by linen53

Yes an assemblage of great spiritual beings who are so advanced our human mind and our spiritual mind (after we die) cannot comprehend just how advanced they are. This excites me! I still pinch myself occasionally to have been created into such an environment that is based on love.

When we return to our REAL existences as souls we will remember more about all of this because our souls have been busy learning for as long as they have existed. On the plane of souls there are limits to what is understood regarding the creative being. Like we here on Earth even the highest master soul can only convey hints. Human minds, be they master or neophyte, are simply not equipped to know of such high concepts. And again it is high but not far away. We are within the source right now. All of creation, spiritual or physical, including us, exists only because the source maintains the whole through continuing exertion of will.

One last thing here is the idea of love. We all know what it is on our level of awareness. Go up a notch or two the where we find those greater souls who work to maintain the Earth and we also find love. Here though love is different. The esoteric (from our standpoint) meaning of love is "obedience/cooperation to that plan which is set for us by the creator (as we know it)".

Originally Posted by linen53

Have you done a talk on the dark forces James/Bartholomew? I hear of spiritual wars but it's information "out there" with no rhyme or reason for me. How are we being protected from this war zone front? In explanation of what I am trying to get at, I do know we have dark forces here on this Earth at this time. I had much exposure to them when I was a child (not by my choice). But to me they were disembodied young souls who were Earth bound for the most part. There were a few that I was forced to encounter that might not have been as such, but I can't be sure, I was so young and I have been protected from such forces since that childhood experience by my Guides/Protectors/Angels whatever you want to call them. But I'd like to understand where is where and what is what. Both the wars and what is allowed here on Planet Earth 3D.

I am careful to not listen to fear talk (I don't think I've ever read any of your teachings that were fear based) so I don't read much on the subject.

This area of interest is more historical than esoteric. It is very complex or seems so because the stage on which these players act is not one which is ever talked about. There are no references to it here on this forum. It is a topic which is apparent in both the life of our planet and the higher sub plane of the ethereal, coupled with astral and mental as well. If you really want to know more I would have to meditate and see what might be revealed. You know me though. I tend to get long winded. Suffice to say that these references are real enough and they are also found in the Bible. They involve the races of human beings who were originally responsible for the pre life conditioning of the Earth... I would like to have the opportunity to learn more about this kind of history before I begin to say more.


Any teachings that I write about are not mine but Bartholomew's and where he learned them is another question. It would be nice to know. After I pass over at the end of this lifetime I intend to ask him man to man, face to face.

"Fear" is a consequence of separation from the source (God). Nothing more. It is a word we devised to describe the unsettling feelings we sometimes have. Kind of like a child being separated from it's mother in unfamiliar surroundings. I will say two things about fear though. First it exists only on the astral plane and not anywhere near the high end. It is mostly the emotional types that experience it. Any of us can be fearful though if we are provoked sufficiently. Haven't we all heard of the way a master soul can sit quietly in the midst of a storm? Perhaps we know of another who will sit at the bottom of a lake for a couple of months suffering no harm? This is also fearlessness. During combat a man or woman might act heroically while later stating I didn't have time to be afraid. All of these indicate the illusivness and insubstantial aspect of the idea. Fear only exists in the lower mind of ordinary beings on a planet as expressed through the coupling of the lower mind and the solar plexus.

Originally Posted by linen53

I remember once reading in a book about when we die we have to get through this realm and that realm with bogey men everywhere ready to 'nab' us and hold us captive. I closed that book right there. I figure as many times as I've been through incarnations I will know where I need to go when I die and my 'people' who have been assigned to me on the spiritual side, will make sure I get where I need/want to be.

When we die we are met by our guides who assist us in making the transition back home. All fear based talk results from yet more fear which exists in abundance here on Earth. In the recent movie Ghost we saw scary devils coming to collect the bad guy when he died. A fun movie but false. Even Adolph Hitler was met by his guide and helped when he passed. Our guides never turn their backs on us no matter what we've done in our lives. When we pass we should compose ourselves for a journey in wonder which will end by being reunited with many others who we have known for a long time. After that a review of the life just past takes place. With the assistance of our guides we then judge ourselves. Then we rest.

Originally Posted by linen53

I so appreciate your contributions to knowledge from the other side.

Please allow me to stress that one must always retain the ability to accept or reject what is given. Neither I nor Bartholomew is all knowing. Each one of us has the same ability in this regard. We all have the same power of access.

[linen53]

Thank you for responding so swiftly. I was not able to respond because I was exposed to something I am allergic to and it's taken me a few days to recover. Not looking for sympathy, just explaining why.

Yes, I can see stating "a part of source" could be interpreted as a separation. I don't interpret it that way; I will just move on.

I do know that my knowledge is a drop in the bucket compared to what is awaiting me once I have completed this lifetime. I do believe many new doors will be opened to me because many new doors have been opened to me in this lifetime, breaking barriers previously out of reach to me.

Thank you for your concern; I am careful and always check the 'within' part of me before taking on new knowings. It it doesn't feel right it gets dumped; if there is a possibility of sustenance (a maybe), it goes on a shelf until more maturity or knowledge is acquired.

I do know we go through stages of learning. You have to learn the alphabet before you can learn to read. Some things I read about I chalk up to that theory.

I've heard before that our thoughts and imagination creates in reality on another plane before so that's twice I've heard that (one of those things on a shelf).

I lived my earlier years in fear. Fear of everything. If there wasn't something to fear, I would create something. A lot of that fear has been addressed by a whole list of questions that have been answered in my life about my life. I remember the first time I was able to sit through a scary movie without having to turn it off due to fear. It was exhilarating! I still watch that movie from time to time to re-create that joyful feeling.

Those fears were placed in me by others to keep me in a helpless state. Thankfully it didn't last my entire life and I was able to get past it. But I see other people who are stuck in a cycle of fears. I can only feel compassion for them.

I am aware of the talk of spiritual wars have been mentioned in the bible. I do not read the bible anymore because it has been watered down to the point that most of the original text has been altered. It's like reading a interpretation of an interpretation of an interpretation. Nuggets here and there but long deserts of text in between.

As far as spiritual wars, maybe we are not to dwell on those things at this time. We are in no position to influence those wars and are merely being protected to continue our growing up process. I just can't imagine that much evil once the physical living is over and the superior knowledge that we have access on the Other Side of incarnation will reveal. Why fight unconditional love? Why fight cooperation? Why fight kindness? Why fight abundance?

Oh how wonderful. I am sure you and Bartholomew will have a very long conversation. I smile when I imagine in my mind, the two of you sitting together.

I have always felt the same about Adolph Hitler. Though in other threads others debase the man and think he needs to be put into the darkest corner of the universe, I just see him as a very broken person, just like we all are or have been at one time or another.

[Busby]

Having read quickly through the above discussions and philosophies Allan Kardec's 'The Book of Spirits' came constantly to mind. It may not offer the same framework for discussions about the 'details' of 'spirituality' but basically the background is similar. A sort of progressive Theosophy. All is possible.
However on my part I did search in vain for the word Imagination in the very lively discussions. Indeed I did find it, once, but in a very minor placing. For me, suiting my present personal needs, this word is the most important of all words. I think we just don't understand it and don't realise how we are missing out on the importance of the role it plays in life - in each life.

We are in this world. Actually it is a very odd place - actually it - our world - just cannot be - nor can it be that we are in a universe of such size and complexity for a few decades and then just disappear without any explanation while residing in what we call the present.

What do we know? Well if we do away with all the stuff we can find every day about religion, beliefs, philosophies, and all the rest we are left with nothing but us, each of us being made of more or less the same stuffs on the same planet. Some of us are rich, handsome, beautiful, intelligent whilst some of us are ugly, poor, of low intellect and low intelligence. Then there are a host of other variances too. Nationality, race, culture, desires, achievements, talents, preferences, hates, etc., all of which are valid and all of which have their place in 'the scheme of things'. What we all have is a body and a mind. It's here that many people will say 'yes, but we have a soul too'. If you ask 8 billion people what a soul is they'll all give you a different answer - just as they will if you ask them what god is. My assumption is that we don't have a soul. But we imagine we do - according to what we imagine.

So the one common factor is that we each have a body made of matter and a mind made of - made of what...?

Let me get to my point. Here in this room where I am sitting everything has been made by man. London and Berlin have been made by man. The A380 aeroplane which flies having a weight of 100 tons has been made by man and his/her imagination. When I look through the window I see trees and grass. Not made by man. So we live in two sorts of worlds. That world outside, the one which gave us life, exists without us having to do anything, we simply partake of it. The world in which we live corresponds to the room I'm in and it is necessary to be constantly busy in this world. Busy by using my imagination. A world somewhat separate from that which 'nature' has created.

So, to keep it short and in my opinion, we do not realise the immense role that our imaginations play in our existences. If we exchange the word 'illusion' for 'imagination' perhaps we get nearer to this thing we call 'truth'. If we are mind and matter and can do away with 'spiritual realms' by replacing the 'realms' with 'imagination' we may understand that we have everything we need now and we don't need either a macro or a micro cosmos. We do, so to speak, nestle in the lap of the creator taking part in one super dream-