Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 14-03-2018, 07:05 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Arizona, U.S.A
Posts: 3,453
  davidsun's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mc
... So perhaps the idea of 'Wholeness' in this respect which I am using as a pointer, shows to me a bigger picture. That there is no lack or limitation in the ideas of wholeness. Whole poverty is coming to those who believe ...

Aye to that, Joe! Because of the immensely creative power of thought and emotion (i.e. ideas and corollary expectations), people end up encountering and experiencing what(ever) they believe is the case. [This is what "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap," actually means, I think.]

Speaking of peeps who manage to disengage from the mind-and-feeling entrapping aspects of ‘dualistic’ 'vision', in chapter six of my book I wrote:
Comprehending the fact that the power and vitality of Creativity [d/b/a Life ] are ubiquitous and eternally ongoing, and that they, others and everything that happens are integral features of Its glorious expression, they recognize their idealization and corresponding awfulization fantasies to be the delusional constructs that they really are, and [so] choose to psychospiritually disengage from any judgment or ‘sense’ that any attribute or circumstance of Life is ‘not good enough’ or ‘too bad’ to accept and creatively deal with. With a transcendentally positive attitude, they embrace and dedicate themselves to augmenting the value and potential inherent in their and others’ being and circumstance, regardless of its form or state, past or present. In due course, this results in their breaking free of the deadly downward drag of Negativity and finding their way ‘back’—no longer naive as Adam and Eve were, but appreciatively aware of what they and those around them are and are part of—into blissful Life-communion. (If not so already, depending on how you ‘view’ Life and, consequently, choose to proceed, you might, become an illumined and, consequently, illuminating one of their number in relatively short order.)
And speaking of peeps who remain enmeshed in the ‘nightmare’ of ‘dualism’, I went on to say:
The rest become so convinced of and dismayed by what, in comparison with the ideals they conceive of and desire, appear to be ‘bad’ or ‘not good enough’ aspects of being that, even when informed and advised otherwise, they persist in regarding Divinity and Divine Life as either non-existent or exceptional, something ‘above’ and ‘beyond’ the ken of ‘ordinary’ earthly existence. They consequently cannot help but think, feel and act as though they and others are, to one degree or another, existentially vulnerable, insignificant and lacking. The fragility, paltriness and poverty such individuals mistakenly believe is their and others’ real condition causes them to either despair or constantly want and try to gain more than they have and become more secure, impressive and powerful than they are, as well as to compensate themselves or those they care for as much as they can for not being sufficiently so (hence the incessant control-, comfort-, pleasure- and excitement-seeking activity of so many of our fellow beings).

But, because their underlying attitude regarding Life is one of inadequacy and insufficiency, experience of inadequacy and insufficiency is what they ultimately actualize. In due course, their ‘world’ becomes a living nightmare. Never perceiving what they have, what they get, what they are, or what they are able to do ever to really be ‘good enough’, no matter how much they or those they care for have or how great they are, they compulsively continue to yearn and strive for what they think would be better, becoming more deliriously enveloped in delusion of lack as they go along, in the course of their interactions, infecting others susceptible to the same kinds of disease with their terrible bias. We now live at the pre-peak point of another major epidemic of resulting illnesses.

Just look at what is happening in the arena of attainment and consumption, for example. Aside from the consensually recognized crazed and criminal extremes many have gone to in these respects, look at the number who think, feel and act as if their personal and social platforms are ‘not good enough’ if they don’t provide for and secure an ever-increasing stream of idealization-fantasy gratifying titillation and phantasmagoria! And look at the number of people and other aspects of Life that are getting trampled on and mangled or shunted aside and abandoned as the consequent race for more degenerates into a mad stampede of selfishness!

If it weren’t for the fact that those who succumb to such insanity provide essential educational case-illustration which will both motivate and enable those who are able and willing to learn to make the kinds of choices that will result in people living more wholesome (and therefore more joyous and fulfilled) lives in the future, their fate would be altogether lamentable. For, at most, their insatiable craving and distress associated with non-fulfillment may be momentarily assuaged by one or another kind of desire-satisfaction. That not being available, it may be temporarily ameliorated by a comparison-generated ‘sense’ that they or their loved ones in some way ‘have more’ and so are ‘better off’ than in the past, or ‘not as badly off’ as others in the present—that is, if such happens to be the case, which it clearly isn’t for a great and growing number.

Eventually, however, as those who imagine they can be ‘winners’ in such quest ever more competitively struggle to achieve and exploit every possible advantage, disregarding the well-being of and, therefore, alienating and becoming alienated from more and more others, in an attempt to pursue, preserve and perpetuate what they conceive to be ‘gains’, and as those who think and feel they are ‘losers’ experience greater and greater erosion of faith and hope, and therefore become more and more desperate and demoralized and opt for whatever provides them with immediate relief and gratification even when such choice is patently destructive and wasteful, all who, because of pejorative judgmentalism, fail to positively appreciate and lovingly make the best of what’s going on in themselves and others around them end up suffering great pain and privation as the weave of their existence unravels and falls apart as a result of unwholesome practices and gross abuse. Ultimately, if they don’t wake up to what’s really going on and consequently develop and maintain salutary orientation of personal and interpersonal attitude and intent, thereby reversing their trajectory at some point along the way, they lose their ‘place’ in the evolutionary progression of Life.

Fortunately, the very severity of the crises those who are errant bring upon themselves and subject others around them to also serves as a catalyst for positive change in those who have as yet underutilized capacity to acknowledge and constructively relate to the [real!] truth. …
__________________
David
http://davidsundom.weebly.com/
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 15-03-2018, 11:55 AM
Joe Mc Joe Mc is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,734
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
There is much going on in the manifestation of duality. It depends which of that you include as wholeness/Oneness manifest and which you exclude because you find some of it unacceptable, suffering for instance, your own and the suffering of others.

Oneness is fully all of it without exception. When this process of including all, and I really mean all, is completed, the feeling of disconnection from Oneness ends. It also needs to be said that Oneness is so completely all, that it is already you feeling disconnected so that feeling itself is not disconnected!!! If you manage to get rid of that feeling, you will be no more or less totally connected to Oneness than you are right now!

Yes we have powers of discrimination and free will to be good or bad in the overall Oneness or Wholeness, is there anything different or usual about that ? So I make a moral choice, what does that mean that I am not conscious or aware or am somehow disconnected from Wholeness ? Obviously no is the answer. I prefer to see more unity, more world peace, more equality does that mean i am somehow deluded ?
__________________
Too much intellectual pride and not enough intellectual beauty

To Thine own Self be True

The Frost performs its secret ministry,Unhelped by any wind. Samuel Taylor Coleridge
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 15-03-2018, 02:48 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Arizona, U.S.A
Posts: 3,453
  davidsun's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mc
Yes we have powers of discrimination and free will to be good or bad in the overall Oneness or Wholeness, is there anything different or usual about that ? So I make a moral choice, what does that mean that I am not conscious or aware or am somehow disconnected from Wholeness ? Obviously no is the answer. I prefer to see more unity, more world peace, more equality does that mean i am somehow deluded ?
A plant or tree is always, in any given present, 'Whole-ly' at-One with whatever It is that ex-press-es Itself as said plant or tree. But that doesn't mean that it has to stay as it is (in said present). It can grow ('evolve') so as to ex-press (and experience!) more (fully!) what it truly is.

Of course, I would say the 'creativity' (in terms of what will result in the 'greater' ex-press-ion and ex-peer-ience of LIFE) is the best criterion for making such choices, not some human-social-value setup 'morality'. In regards this assertion, contemplate the implications of this passage from the Book of Ecclesiastes:
"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; a time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; a time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; a time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace."
__________________
David
http://davidsundom.weebly.com/
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 16-03-2018, 01:22 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mc
Yes we have powers of discrimination and free will to be good or bad in the overall Oneness or Wholeness, is there anything different or usual about that ? So I make a moral choice, what does that mean that I am not conscious or aware or am somehow disconnected from Wholeness ? Obviously no is the answer. I prefer to see more unity, more world peace, more equality does that mean i am somehow deluded ?

No it does not mean that you are deluded for wanting those things. What it does mean is that it is not you wanting, but rather Oneness looking like you wanting !!!

From the perspective of some non duality, the manifestation has an inbuilt mechanism that always automatically maintains the manifestation in perfect balance on the infinate scale or it would not appear at all. From that perspective if those things are required for that balance to be maintained, nothing can stop them happening. If they are not required for such a balance, nothing can make them happen.

If that resonates and all is included as Oneness manifest, including the idea that there are separate persons wanting or doing anything, the feeling of disconnection ends.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 16-03-2018, 02:54 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Arizona, U.S.A
Posts: 3,453
  davidsun's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
No it does not mean that you are deluded for wanting those things. What it does mean is that it is not you wanting, but rather Oneness looking like you wanting !!!

From the perspective of some non duality, the manifestation has an inbuilt mechanism that always automatically maintains the manifestation in perfect balance on the infinate scale or it would not appear at all. From that perspective if those things are required for that balance to be maintained, nothing can stop them happening. If they are not required for such a balance, nothing can make them happen.

If that resonates and all is included as Oneness manifest, including the idea that there are separate persons wanting or doing anything, the feeling of disconnection ends.
Hello Iamit,

Your way of conceptualizing and splaining 'manifestation' (i.e. 'act'ualization) reminded me of David Hawkins wrote about the subject of 'causality' in one of his books. No longer having these (I have culled my personal 'library' many times in the interests of 'traveling light'), I did an internet search for "David Hawkins causality" which yielded links to various videos and well as the following interview transcript snippet:

https://sureshemre.wordpress.com/201...-on-causality/

I thought you (and possibly others) might enjoy reading it as what he says dovetails quite nicely with your conceptualizing and splaining (I think).
__________________
David
http://davidsundom.weebly.com/
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 17-03-2018, 12:00 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Hello Iamit,

Your way of conceptualizing and splaining 'manifestation' (i.e. 'act'ualization) reminded me of David Hawkins wrote about the subject of 'causality' in one of his books. No longer having these (I have culled my personal 'library' many times in the interests of 'traveling light'), I did an internet search for "David Hawkins causality" which yielded links to various videos and well as the following interview transcript snippet:

https://sureshemre.wordpress.com/201...-on-causality/

I thought you (and possibly others) might enjoy reading it as what he says dovetails quite nicely with your conceptualizing and splaining (I think).

Thanks for that link David. I had not heard of him before and found it interesting.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums