The Mother or the Father? Laozi or Jesus?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

From a Mystical Christianity point of view..

The Father is Emptiness the Tao.

The Father and Jesus being One is a perfect description of Non Duality, of realizing emptiness, of being a Realized Immortal.

Hinduism doesn't have the same concept of emptiness as Taoism or Buddhism or Mystical Christianity. There is Shiva and we are all within Shiva.

Mystical Christianity from a Hindu perspective....here we go..ready Tom?

Although the personage of Jesus was, in no doubt, a historical figure of great importance and significance, the title of being "the Christ" refers to the "Annointed One" blessed by the Lord's Grace which is through the whole "Baptism of Fire" and by now, you can probably tell where I am going to go with this..

The "Father" is that which descends, while the "Mother" is that which arises, both meeting within the heart..within the sacred fire pit of Bhairava.

The energy of the Father, of Shiva comes in through the Crown Chakra and is instilled as Krystos..as ambrosia within the sacred Pineal gland..and like Jacob, we need to climb the ladder of 33 steps (the vertebrae in the human spinal column and the years that Lord Jesus walked the earth) to access the key to immortality.

Who does this "climbing"? It is not the mind, ego nor personal will, but the Goddess within....pretty much the only Goddess there is.. Kundalini Shakti. Every other external manifestation of the Goddess is merely a symbolic representation OF Her.

So when the Shakti ascends to meet the Grace of Shiva, they both descend from the Crown, down into the Heart Chakra where the third force is awakened which transcends both...known as Sadashiva..Brahman..that aspect of God which is absolute and not relative.

I could go into this in a lot more depth, but then I will lose everyone more than I have already done. lol

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Mystical Christianity from a Hindu perspective....here we go..ready Tom?

Although the personage of Jesus was, in no doubt, a historical figure of great importance and significance, the title of being "the Christ" refers to the "Annointed One" blessed by the Lord's Grace which is through the whole "Baptism of Fire" and by now, you can probably tell where I am going to go with this..

The "Father" is that which descends, while the "Mother" is that which arises, both meeting within the heart..within the sacred fire pit of Bhairava.

The energy of the Father, of Shiva comes in through the Crown Chakra and is instilled as Krystos..as ambrosia within the sacred Pineal gland..and like Jacob, we need to climb the ladder of 33 steps (the vertebrae in the human spinal column and the years that Lord Jesus walked the earth) to access the key to immortality.

Who does this "climbing"? It is not the mind, ego nor personal will, but the Goddess within....pretty much the only Goddess there is.. Kundalini Shakti. Every other external manifestation of the Goddess is merely a symbolic representation OF Her.

So when the Shakti ascends to meet the Grace of Shiva, they both descend from the Crown, down into the Heart Chakra where the third force is awakened which transcends both...known as Sadashiva..Brahman..that aspect of God which is absolute and not relative.

I could go into this in a lot more depth, but then I will lose everyone more than I have already done. lol

Again, you are describing the Hindu perspective.

Here are some teachings from Mystical Christianity.

Defining The Holy Grail...

Regarding the concept of the "Holy Grail", in gnostic Christian traditions it represent the "Shekinah of the Messiah" (or Holy Spirit). The completion (or consort) of a Man (or Woman) as the primordial Adam. In the concept of Christian enlightenment, primordial Adam is beyond male and female separation (or contains both sexes). It is very similar to other traditions where gods are alway seen as having a consort or sometimes having both male and female sexual organs. The Gospel of Thomas describes it as follows...


22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom." They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?" Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

Communion - A Mystical Perspective...

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.” 27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the[a] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” 30 When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.


The words are describing in symbolic terms the meaning of true communion. Jesus is describing an advanced form of light transmission (or shared oneness/presence), similar to guru/divinity yoga. Historically, there have been two main different types of transmission. First, earth or Mother energy often called Shakipat (leading to Kundalini). And second, sharing of presence (or knowledge) which momentarily create a state of "clarity of mind".


In communion, the "body" represent body/mother energy or "Kundalini". The "blood" represents spirit energy or "state of knowledge". In Christian terms, the state of knowledge is often also called "the peace that passes all human understanding". Bringing together both components greatly accelerates overall human development because you have the "kundalini" force pushing ongoing "clarity" rapidly forward, while the guru/master provides an ongoing "sharing" of peace (mental clarity) to help protect from the normal issues that can come from kundalini. This shared clarity or peace is also why many Christian's will describe a "top down" rather than a "bottom up" feeling to energy/kundalini.


In more esoteric gnostic christian texts, it is often call things like the "bridal or marriage chamber". As in the Gospel of Thomas...

75. Jesus said, "There are many standing at the door, but those who are alone will enter the bridal suite."

Also, from the Secret Gospel of Mary...

12. Disciples of Mary said to her, “We are going on a pilgrimage to the holy land so we might see where you and the Lord lived.” Mary said to them, “The holy land is wherever a child of Light goes, and it is where the child of Light abides. The holy land is where the Anointed and the soul are joined, it is the bridal chamber.”

23. Mary spoke, and said, “There is baptism, chrism and wedding feast, and there is the ransom and bridal chamber. Baptism is water, chrism is fire and the ransom is earth. The wedding feast is the air, for in the Spirit we shall meet the Anointed on the Day of Joy, and then the element of the bridal chamber shall be fully revealed. Everything the Lord accomplished he accomplished in a mystery, and the Anointed Bride is the mystery.”

48. Mary taught her disciples, saying, “The Aeons of Light are the handmaids of the Bride at the wedding feast, and the best man is the Son of Adam at the wedding; in the bridal chamber the soul acquires intimate acquaintance with the Anointed and becomes the Anointed. Until that time, sing and dance and rejoice, for it is to those who abide in joy that the Shekinah comes, and it is through her that you will enter the bridal chamber.”

[django]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Mystical Christianity from a Hindu perspective....here we go..ready Tom?

Although the personage of Jesus was, in no doubt, a historical figure of great importance and significance, the title of being "the Christ" refers to the "Annointed One" blessed by the Lord's Grace which is through the whole "Baptism of Fire" and by now, you can probably tell where I am going to go with this..

The "Father" is that which descends, while the "Mother" is that which arises, both meeting within the heart..within the sacred fire pit of Bhairava.

The energy of the Father, of Shiva comes in through the Crown Chakra and is instilled as Krystos..as ambrosia within the sacred Pineal gland..and like Jacob, we need to climb the ladder of 33 steps (the vertebrae in the human spinal column and the years that Lord Jesus walked the earth) to access the key to immortality.

Who does this "climbing"? It is not the mind, ego nor personal will, but the Goddess within....pretty much the only Goddess there is.. Kundalini Shakti. Every other external manifestation of the Goddess is merely a symbolic representation OF Her.

So when the Shakti ascends to meet the Grace of Shiva, they both descend from the Crown, down into the Heart Chakra where the third force is awakened which transcends both...known as Sadashiva..Brahman..that aspect of God which is absolute and not relative.

I could go into this in a lot more depth, but then I will lose everyone more than I have already done. lol

I agree that the mother ascends and the father descends but IME they meet in the head and stay there, and produce this ‘third force’. Mother Earth and Father sky in the old traditions maybe, and they produce something at the line where they meet.

I’ll have to look into ‘Brahman’, see if that resonates with me.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Roger that.
Requested sentence:Ate Wankantanka, Mitawa ki,

Wazi ya tanhan, ka te na Wa ska ki u ya ye ki,

Hena un taku ya kage ki, ya glu ska kta, he ca nu,

He iye cel, Wakantanka, Anpetu ki le, Micante Ki Mi ci yu ska ye,

He cel tohanl, nitokab woyasu ki el, wahinajin ki, ima ya cu kta.

LOKOTA PRAYER


You provided the transliterated version.


The English version of what you provided is:

"My Father, Great Spirit,
Who send'est the wind and the White Snow from the north,
To make thy creation clean and pure,
Father, make me clean and pure within my heart,
That I may be accepted in thy sight and judgement."



The second part, which you did not provide is:

"Father, Great Spirit
To the east from whence cometh the rising of the sun,
and all thy living creation,
Thou hast added another day to my life,
for which I give thee Thanks with all my heart."

Originally Posted by BigJohn

LOKOTA PRAYER
You provided the transliterated version.
The English version of what you provided is:

"My Father, Great Spirit,
Who send'est the wind and the White Snow from the north,
To make thy creation clean and pure,
Father, make me clean and pure within my heart,
That I may be accepted in thy sight and judgement."

The second part, which you did not provide is:

"Father, Great Spirit
To the east from whence cometh the rising of the sun,
and all thy living creation,
Thou hast added another day to my life,
for which I give thee Thanks with all my heart."

You correct on all accounts, except the version you provided is the transliterated version from the Lakota language.

Plus I was noticing how this first part of this prayer could easily be
interchanged with a Christian prayer.

It is ironic that Native Ways can except and adopt many christian ways easily.
But not many Christians can except Native ways and may even call them
evil and down grade The People as savages.

I would say that many Native ways have Mothers and Fathers in balance.
Many Christian ways have stripped out many feminine references in scripture and practices.
Many of the Christian ways I know about see raping the Mother of resources
as a blessing from the Father.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

You correct on all accounts, except the version you provided is the transliterated version from the Lakota language.

Plus I was noticing how this first part of this prayer could easily be
interchanged with a Christian prayer.

It is ironic that Native Ways can except and adopt many christian ways easily.
But not many Christians can except Native ways and may even call them
evil and down grade The People as savages.

I would say that many Native ways have Mothers and Fathers in balance.
Many Christian ways have stripped out many feminine references in scripture and practices.
Many of the Christian ways I know about see raping the Mother of resources
as a blessing from the Father.

Depends on the Christian Tradition. The Greek Orthodox has some good stuff.

From St. Symeon The New Theologian

“By what boundless mercy, my Savior, have you allowed me to become a member of
your body? Me, the unclean, the defiled, the prodigal. How is it that you have clothed
me in the brilliant garment, radiant with the splendor of immortality, that turns all my
members into light? Your body, immaculate and divine, is all radiant with the fire of your
divinity, with which it is ineffably joined and combined. This is the gift you have given
me, my God: that this mortal and shabby frame has become one with your immaculate
body and that my blood has mingled with your blood.” (8)

“I thank you that you have become one spirit with me, without confusion, without
mutation, without transformation, you the God of all; and that you have become
everything for me, inexpressible and perfectly gratuitous nourishment, which ever flows
to the lips of my soul and gushes out into the fountain of my heart, dazzling garment
which burns the demons, purification which bathes me with these imperishable and holy
tears, that your presence brings to those whom you visit. I give you thanks that for me
you have become unsetting light and non-declining sun…” (9)

8. Johannes Koder: Hymnes; Vol 156 (1-15), 1969; Vol 174 (16-40), 1971; Vol 196

(41-58), 1973

9. Saint Symeon the New Theologian And Orthodox Tradition, by Bishop Hilarion

Alfeyev, Oxford University Press 2000

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Depends on the Christian Tradition. The Greek Orthodox has some good stuff.

From St. Symeon The New Theologian

Yes, I agree it depends.
I was careful to say Many, and many christian ways I know.

Here in America we have many Christian traditions that evolved out
of the Catholic traditions and influences.
I would say that the Catholic church weaponized Christianity to
conquer and control peoples and tribes across Europe that Lived from
and with the land.They then continued that practice here.
In Europe you can read of the killing of female witches
as a way to rid groups of the feminine use of the powers and goodness of the earth/Mother.
Then subjugate through a Father like punishing God.
And making people dependent on the church as an intercessor instead of
people being able to speak/commune with Masculine Gods and Feminine Goddesses.

[django]

My mother has her little collection of Mary statues, and there are Marian priests, in the end people will find what they need it seems, anyway the Catholic Church left the door wide open when in his Ineffabilis Deus in 1854, Pope Pius IX wrote:

“Let all the children of the Catholic Church, who are so very dear to us, hear these words of ours. With a still more ardent zeal for piety, religion and love, let them continue to venerate, invoke and pray to the most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, conceived without original sin. Let them fly with utter confidence to this most sweet Mother of mercy and grace in all dangers, difficulties, needs, doubts and fears. Under her guidance, under her patronage, under her kindness and protection, nothing is to be feared; nothing is hopeless. Because, while bearing toward us a truly motherly affection and having in her care the work of our salvation, she is solicitous about the whole human race. And since she has been appointed by God to be the Queen of heaven and earth, and is exalted above all the choirs of angels and saints, and even stands at the right hand of her only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, she presents our petitions in a most efficacious manner. What she asks, she obtains. Her pleas can never be unheard.“

Originally Posted by django

My mother has her little collection of Mary statues, and there are Marian priests, in the end people will find what they need it seems, anyway the Catholic Church left the door wide open when in his Ineffabilis Deus in 1854, Pope Pius IX wrote:

“Let all the children of the Catholic Church, who are so very dear to us, hear these words of ours. With a still more ardent zeal for piety, religion and love, let them continue to venerate, invoke and pray to the most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, conceived without original sin. Let them fly with utter confidence to this most sweet Mother of mercy and grace in all dangers, difficulties, needs, doubts and fears. Under her guidance, under her patronage, under her kindness and protection, nothing is to be feared; nothing is hopeless. Because, while bearing toward us a truly motherly affection and having in her care the work of our salvation, she is solicitous about the whole human race. And since she has been appointed by God to be the Queen of heaven and earth, and is exalted above all the choirs of angels and saints, and even stands at the right hand of her only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, she presents our petitions in a most efficacious manner. What she asks, she obtains. Her pleas can never be unheard.“

Do you know if Mary represents the Earth Mother, the Mother of all living life forms?

[django]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Do you know if Mary represents the Earth Mother, the Mother of all living life forms?

She is considered to be queen of heaven and all of earth because she was the mother of God, but I don’t think she is considered to be the earth mother in the sense of mother of all living things.