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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Past Lives & Reincarnation

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  #11  
Old 25-11-2018, 09:54 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissCreativeSpirit
Abraham of the Hicks group in one video says there is no subconsciousness at all doing any of the driving!

To correctly understand, and quote, channeled messages, it is important to define terms like subconscious, unconscious, ... and be very specific about the "text" and the context of the message.

The channel has to be completely unbiased, and to not interpret it in any way. Any further citation is likely to dilute and distort the message.

Your citation "there is no subconsciousness at all doing any of the driving!", out of context, and not textually reproduced, isn't probably in the spirit of Abraham's message.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #12  
Old 26-11-2018, 01:55 AM
Rah nam Rah nam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrJay
It’s often said we are here to learn from our various lives. However, if the universe is 12 billion years old or whatever the latest estimate is, if our souls have been around for a long time, in the context of billions of years does that imply an individual has had many millions of lives and still has to keep on learning?

Or is it that we have come out of some sort of soul factory more recently (say, the last thousand years for example) which would appear to be a more realistic time period for learning what needs to be learnt?

If as I believe, a lot of human behaviour is driven by unconscious forces in our own minds, the result of how we were parented, how can you learn from something that will to a large extent always be out of our control? Free will or the capacity to make life choices will always have to occur in the context of what you are, which is largely a product of how well your parents loved and managed you at a time when you were very young and had little control over your life

Moving on to the next conundrum, Earth is a small planet in a massive universe. Do we reincarnate back here all the time or could we end up anywhere in the universe? If there are untold parallel universes and/or dimensions, can our soul be reincarnated in one of these other universes or dimensions?

Or are the answers to these questions simply too much for our limited human minds to properly come to terms with? Does it really matter if we don’t really know the answers? If you think you do in fact know the answer to the questions, how do you know and what has been the driving force in your path to such profound enlightenment?

Just putting these questions out there in the hope people who are much wiser than I can answer them, put them to rest or tell me I’m wasting my time trying to answer the unanswerable.








It is difficult to construct an answer to your different questions, the way your questions are formulated.

First, anyone's incarnation cycle, if in deed a spirit is here in an incarnation cycle, is a very brief moment in the total life span of a (uni)verse. And any verse is constantly expanding up to the point it starts to collapse. Which means, consciousness expands and we are consciousness. With this soul-like structures like oversouls, Monads, Logoi are constantly created as a verses expand.

How many life times?
This varies and depends largely how we came into existence.

If we look at an oversoul, and most would have developed through an oversoul, this oversoul can spend millions of years within the mineral realms,(as one oversoul leave the mineral realm, an other one will start moving in) and move from there slowly into the plant and animal realm, this again can take hundreds of thousands of years. To the point where individual souls form and move into the realm we are in now; third density. For a soul to move through third density is relatively quick in comparison. The quickest I know of, is under 30 incarnations. It took me in excess of 40 I am told. The norm is more like 100+ . Over a time frame of 1000 to 40 000 years, if the incarnation cycle was held on one planet or solar system only. The variations are to vast to go into. And I will not go into the next development stages, 4th density, 5th density and so on.
This reality and most others, in this verse on this level of existence are governed by a matrix created by beings I call the "master builders".

Further the influence on this matrix by light forces as well as dark forces is determined by the choices by those within the matrix.

The light forces like to see us evolve, yet they can not make it so, they only can change the conditions to the degree we as the players in this game agree to it.

Wile inside the matrix we are influenced by many sides, hidden memories from past lives, memories that come through the family line and group line as well as nation. Yet the most important memories come from our soul, and to what degree we allow those memories to come through is a subject in itself. It takes often a half of a life time for them to come through.

There is nothing uni about this verse, there are as many verses as there are cells in our body, I was told, and they are not parallel verses, as I understand parallel, they are verses in their own right with their own development path. Yes, it is possible to cross to an other verse, but not as simple as just moving across. Everything is regulated, in the same way it is regulated to incarnate in an other galaxy or system.

To move into an other density or dimension, as you call it, sure when you are ready, when your frequency matches the density above, you can move through.
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  #13  
Old 02-12-2018, 12:54 AM
ArrJay ArrJay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
It is more than possible that we really only do know the absolute minimum. Just enough to get us through the day. This possibility doesn't however mean that searching for answers is pointless, at some time in the future something has to 'give' and we'll have a better idea if we are a little prepared to comprehend easier just how we came to be here. There is no doubt in my mind that this will one day be achieved.
Personally I am not of the opinion that we are here to 'learn', this seems to me to be a weak reason for the development of mankind. Weak because it is something which could be rectified in a second by any creator thus avoiding all calamities and suffering, all of which serve no purpose in a universe which is supposedly one created by a loving god.
Actually my own experience indicates to me that we do already know everything there is to know, this being reflected in the world by the thing we call development/evolution and so on - other words can be used here.
For me there are only two states of being, one we know as the physical and the other we know as the mental. These are present at all times and in all places at all times. They are obvious. We don't have to kid ourselves that there is something supernatural lurking about in the undergrowth. That mental world in which our thoughts, ideas, talents, discoveries, pleasures, preferences… is the basis for the universe.

What fascinates me personally is the billions, trillions of years (as we understand time) which passed before the BigBang happened. What a waste???

The answer you are seeking you'll have to find out for yourself. There are 8 billion of us on this planet and each of us is right in what he or she believes. So don't go looking for wise men or wisdom, you'll never find it outside yourself.

Nobody knows.

I agree it may be the answers can be found within oneself however, wise men and women (such as yourself) can certainly assist with finding or moving towards finding the answers.
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  #14  
Old 02-12-2018, 01:09 AM
ArrJay ArrJay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmergingPath
I am in passionate agreement with you on this point Busby! To your last point, if you feel that one day something may give and you will be able to better comprehend more about how we came to be here, then you would agree that some people may already have achieved that, and are further down that path of knowledge than you or I, no? Or do you feel we will all “get it” at the same time in a universal awakening?

If It’s the former, then seeking out those who may be further down that path of understanding is a worthy endeavor.

I agree that we each know what resonates with us as “truth” and “looking” to others for the answers is not going to provide you with everything you need, but may provide some pieces that fit into your unique puzzle of understanding.

Having said that, it is my belief that we should all be very skeptical of those professing that they have all of the answers and are THE path to enlightenment, as many are professing that knowledge solely for their own self aggrandizement.


On this point I would differ with you as you leave out probably the single most important factor, and that is “free will”.

Like you, I believe that a loving God could eliminate all suffering and pain in a moment, but then we would all just be “robots”, programmed with all of the answers and no need for emotions nor any wish or reason to experience anything that this world offers us in this incarnation, both sorrow and happiness.

I feel that a loving God may show you the way, but in giving you free will, allows you to drive your own actions.

For good or bad, free will is a key to understanding why a loving God would allow pain and suffering, joy and happiness. In my opinion, free will is what makes everything around me make sense. So ”learning” is how we accept what is right and wrong, and we learn from our experiences. And we have experiences because the answers we seek are hidden from us, and in our free will we make choices. And we learn from those choices or we don’t.

And through the pain, suffering, and happiness, those that find enlightenment through their choices and efforts are rewarded at the end with a full understanding as to why things are they way that they are...

Just my opinions

-EP

All well said and in particular the need to be skeptical. Nevertheless, I'm not entirely convinced human beings have a massive amount of "free will": we are all products of our parenting in particular, our culture, our country, our time in history and sheer unmitigated luck! Sure, we often have choices but those choices have to be made in the context of the aforementioned. For example, cultures where the killing of infants or old people has been deemed necessary for the group to survive - in our western culture it wouldn't happen now and it would be rated as the baddest of bad karma; but not, say, in some other places and times where the weakest weren't "carried" or supported and were eliminated to make it easier for the group to continue on. There are many such cultural examples through human history.
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  #15  
Old 02-12-2018, 01:14 AM
ArrJay ArrJay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah nam
It is difficult to construct an answer to your different questions, the way your questions are formulated.

First, anyone's incarnation cycle, if in deed a spirit is here in an incarnation cycle, is a very brief moment in the total life span of a (uni)verse. And any verse is constantly expanding up to the point it starts to collapse. Which means, consciousness expands and we are consciousness. With this soul-like structures like oversouls, Monads, Logoi are constantly created as a verses expand.

How many life times?
This varies and depends largely how we came into existence.

If we look at an oversoul, and most would have developed through an oversoul, this oversoul can spend millions of years within the mineral realms,(as one oversoul leave the mineral realm, an other one will start moving in) and move from there slowly into the plant and animal realm, this again can take hundreds of thousands of years. To the point where individual souls form and move into the realm we are in now; third density. For a soul to move through third density is relatively quick in comparison. The quickest I know of, is under 30 incarnations. It took me in excess of 40 I am told. The norm is more like 100+ . Over a time frame of 1000 to 40 000 years, if the incarnation cycle was held on one planet or solar system only. The variations are to vast to go into. And I will not go into the next development stages, 4th density, 5th density and so on.
This reality and most others, in this verse on this level of existence are governed by a matrix created by beings I call the "master builders".

Further the influence on this matrix by light forces as well as dark forces is determined by the choices by those within the matrix.

The light forces like to see us evolve, yet they can not make it so, they only can change the conditions to the degree we as the players in this game agree to it.

Wile inside the matrix we are influenced by many sides, hidden memories from past lives, memories that come through the family line and group line as well as nation. Yet the most important memories come from our soul, and to what degree we allow those memories to come through is a subject in itself. It takes often a half of a life time for them to come through.

There is nothing uni about this verse, there are as many verses as there are cells in our body, I was told, and they are not parallel verses, as I understand parallel, they are verses in their own right with their own development path. Yes, it is possible to cross to an other verse, but not as simple as just moving across. Everything is regulated, in the same way it is regulated to incarnate in an other galaxy or system.

To move into an other density or dimension, as you call it, sure when you are ready, when your frequency matches the density above, you can move through.

Many thanks for responding so eloquently. The new questions which arise in my mind are who told you about your +40 incarnations and if "everything is regulated", who or what in your view is doing the regulating?
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  #16  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:37 PM
interim interim is offline
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Posts: 22
 
ArrJay, you are asking intelligent questions, which is quite rare...

Yes, it is said that we come here to learn. But it's just this - a saying. I would advice you to try investigating actual observable data we have. It's true, we are incarnated into human bodies, that have a life on their own. They function based on survival instincts, evolutionary programs, that most people even don't realize, but identify as themselves, although it's just their body. Also we are born so weak, so easy to manipulate, that we rarely live life of our own. We live to please our parents, our partners, our children, the society, the gods... So if we learn something on this planet it would be how to survive physically (and mentally)... As you said, civilized life, with potential for learning represents very tiny periods of this huge planetary history. Most of the time you just get born, kill others to survive, have sex to propagate the species, and die. How many times this must repeat? I would argue, that we passed the golden age of the human civilization which ended 1900 with the world wars. The modern life is technologically advanced, but psychologically inferior. Just pick and compare any music, literature, philosophy... We live in the late stages of the Roman Empire (i.e. US in its modern analogue). To put it bluntly, what people nowadays learn about love, is to wear a condom...

Do we reincarnate on other planets? Most don't... Check out people that had NDE. For example in youtube, there is a channel called billsvideos123. But listen VERY CAREFULLY. Think with your own head what these people really experienced, since observation and explanation are two different things...

I will tell you my vision of what is happening, although I'm from the minority. We, as spiritual beings come from something that we call the Source, also the One. It's the real God, although 99.99% of the people worship other things as gods. We all have the potential to create. The Universe is full of such creations, and there are probably other Universes governed by completely different rules. We not only create worlds, but also play in them. Our Solar system is just one small such world and playground. However, our Sun has huge ego. If you know from astrology, the Sun is your ego. When you die, the Sun sucks your soul and then tricks you to reincarnate again in its solar system. This is why most people worship the Sun as their god. Even Christianity was created by Romans as a hybrid between other religions and the existing cult to the Sun. Do you know what this symbols is?



Do you know why we rest on Sunday? Do you know why we celebrate on December 25? Or Easter?
Anyway, if you look around, you will understand that the central deity of this planet is the Sun, which is really not that surprising... This deity doesn't have just physical aspect, but also spiritual. And as an egoistic entity, it preaches it's own version of spirituality. And here one bracket - spiritual doesn't mean necessarily good, perfect, higher understanding, etc. This is how to promote your own version of spirituality as the only one... In reality, anything is allowed on the spiritual plane, since this is love - allowance. However, our Sun is immature, and doesn't like us free. It keeps us in its matrix that says that Sun is the only god, although it governs only our physical bodies.

About learning, here is something simple to understand. The Source, created us just to be, out of its love. Whether we learn, and what we choose to learn is up to us. Nobody can force you to learn anything. Although learning is important, it's not the center of existence. And this is easy to see, especially on this planet, so few people actually learn... So the idea that we always have more to "learn" is a trick to keep you here. Yes we have, we always have, but who is saying we must learn it here, in this particular life matrix? Who told you that? Well - as you can see from the NDE - the Sun :)... NDE shows so well, that these people meet the spiritual Sun. Not the Source which is in you. The Sun plays an interesting game, no doubt you can learn something from it. However be very careful when you let external beings dictate your believes... What I'm trying to say is that you will never exit this playground here if you don't find it really in yourself.

I've heard for myself, that my solar system died, and I had to go somewhere. This is another important aspect, that this system is opened to anybody. This is why people here are so different, even though the physical bodies are relatively the same. I'm not sure if this is true for all solar systems. Most probably - no, since most planets seem to be collective. But when they run their course, what happens to these souls? Maybe they start to develop as universal souls on special solar systems like this one. We are probably learning about the ego on this solar system, learning to walk again so to speak, but by ourselves, since there is nobody else really out there for you. It's actually more difficult then it seems, even our Sun probably plays its own ego game... Just my guess. I think however, that at any point you should have the choice to return to the Source, and the fact that people with NDE talk about a deity that tricks or forces them to reincarnate, that this deity is external and creates other external objects based on your believe system and human relatives... What that this tells you...
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  #17  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:37 PM
interim interim is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
 
ArrJay, you are asking intelligent questions, which is quite rare...

Yes, it is said that we come here to learn. But it's just this - a saying. I would advice you to try investigating actual observable data we have. It's true, we are incarnated into human bodies, that have a life on their own. They function based on survival instincts, evolutionary programs, that most people even don't realize, but identify as themselves, although it's just their body. Also we are born so weak, so easy to manipulate, that we rarely live life of our own. We live to please our parents, our partners, our children, the society, the gods... So if we learn something on this planet it would be how to survive physically (and mentally)... As you said, civilized life, with potential for learning represents very tiny periods of this huge planetary history. Most of the time you just get born, kill others to survive, have sex to propagate the species, and die. How many times this must repeat? I would argue, that we passed the golden age of the human civilization which ended 1900 with the world wars. The modern life is technologically advanced, but psychologically inferior. Just pick and compare any music, literature, philosophy... We live in the late stages of the Roman Empire (i.e. US in its modern analogue). To put it bluntly, what people nowadays learn about love, is to wear a condom...

Do we reincarnate on other planets? Most don't... Check out people that had NDE. For example in youtube, there is a channel called billsvideos123. But listen VERY CAREFULLY. Think with your own head what these people really experienced, since observation and explanation are two different things...

I will tell you my vision of what is happening, although I'm from the minority. We, as spiritual beings come from something that we call the Source, also the One. It's the real God, although 99.99% of the people worship other things as gods. We all have the potential to create. The Universe is full of such creations, and there are probably other Universes governed by completely different rules. We not only create worlds, but also play in them. Our Solar system is just one small such world and playground. However, our Sun has huge ego. If you know from astrology, the Sun is your ego. When you die, the Sun sucks your soul and then tricks you to reincarnate again in its solar system. This is why most people worship the Sun as their god. Even Christianity was created by Romans as a hybrid between other religions and the existing cult to the Sun. Do you know what this symbols is?



Do you know why we rest on Sunday? Do you know why we celebrate on December 25? Or Easter?
Anyway, if you look around, you will understand that the central deity of this planet is the Sun, which is really not that surprising... This deity doesn't have just physical aspect, but also spiritual. And as an egoistic entity, it preaches it's own version of spirituality. And here one bracket - spiritual doesn't mean necessarily good, perfect, higher understanding, etc. This is how to promote your own version of spirituality as the only one... In reality, anything is allowed on the spiritual plane, since this is love - allowance. However, our Sun is immature, and doesn't like us free. It keeps us in its matrix that says that Sun is the only god, although it governs only our physical bodies.

About learning, here is something simple to understand. The Source, created us just to be, out of its love. Whether we learn, and what we choose to learn is up to us. Nobody can force you to learn anything. Although learning is important, it's not the center of existence. And this is easy to see, especially on this planet, so few people actually learn... So the idea that we always have more to "learn" is a trick to keep you here. Yes we have, we always have, but who is saying we must learn it here, in this particular life matrix? Who told you that? Well - as you can see from the NDE - the Sun :)... NDE shows so well, that these people meet the spiritual Sun. Not the Source which is in you. The Sun plays an interesting game, no doubt you can learn something from it. However be very careful when you let external beings dictate your believes... What I'm trying to say is that you will never exit this playground here if you don't find it really in yourself.

I've heard for myself, that my solar system died, and I had to go somewhere. This is another important aspect, that this system is opened to anybody. This is why people here are so different, even though the physical bodies are relatively the same. I'm not sure if this is true for all solar systems. Most probably - no, since most planets seem to be collective. But when they run their course, what happens to these souls? Maybe they start to develop as universal souls on special solar systems like this one. We are probably learning about the ego on this solar system, learning to walk again so to speak, but by ourselves, since there is nobody else really out there for you. It's actually more difficult then it seems, even our Sun probably plays its own ego game... Just my guess. I think however, that at any point you should have the choice to return to the Source, and the fact that people with NDE talk about a deity that tricks or forces them to reincarnate, that this deity is external and creates other external objects based on your believe system and human relatives... What that this tells you...
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  #18  
Old 07-12-2018, 06:20 PM
open2it open2it is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2017
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Posts: 104
 
Just my thoughts.
Perhaps each of our lives are like a movie and we have a choice which movie to see. Perhaps we do see many movies. When a movie is over we may take some time before we go to another movie. Perhaps this era of our being we want to see a movie about living alone or maybe one about reaching high positions from the bottoms. The plots have unlimited variances with perhaps many chapters with such different experiences.

I have read where people with great spiritual understanding can and have been able to leave the movie{life} when they chose to do so and not by suffering in doing so. Actually I don't think it even requires great spiritual understanding to leave the present life because I have known people that have done so. Some people linger on perhaps in pain or disease or even live in similar to an infant stage while others have a quick transfer. I think fear causes many to refuse moving on.

I have known people that said goodbye to friends and relatives and then just died yet they weren't at their end so to speak. The movie wasn't over but they were told the ending of the movie and chose not to watch/experience any more. My point in this is that since we can choose to leave a life then we more than likely choose each of our lives that we are reincarnated into.


It is my thought that the bible teaches man's dominate creating abilities. On earth as in heaven. The earth is subject to that which is in heaven. Earth takes on the attributes of that which is in heaven. That which makes thought happen is totally beyond our understanding. Perhaps that is the Lord or Law of the universe. Notice how often the Lord, God and Law are mentioned in the bible each seeming to be spoken of as something with its own purpose by design.

Perhaps the bible speaks of this in Genesis. Like God we are also creative. First there is thought or vision. Then by our choice we call it forth with our word. Then it is manifested according to our word. We do this regarding everything we experience. So it is on earth as it is in heaven. Heaven{Thought/Spirit} manifests on earth{expression/reality/form/life}.

I believe when we pass on from this life experience we continue being thought in spirit. If/when we come across a thought we want to experience then perhaps we reincarnate in another body to experience the expression/life of our choice.

I often wonder do we really choose this life on our own or are we given a choice from many things we for some reason are to experience? I wonder why would someone choose such a hard life experience over a wonderful life? If we are given free will then I fail to understand why we wouldn't have free will to chose a wonderful reincarnation over a ****** hard one. I don't think if we are given free will in life then we wouldn't have free will while in spirit to choose the life we want to reincarnate into. I have a problem thinking we are forced into a life of suffering. But then again that happens for some reason. IE: Going into high school we are given choices which subjects we want to pursue. Some choose college prep while others choose vocational classes. Some quit school and don't even graduate thusly choosing to go their own way.

I guess someday we will find the answers. Maybe not and we will jump right back into the mire. I hope I have learnt and can move on to greater expression of life in future lives.
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  #19  
Old 07-12-2018, 09:56 PM
EmergingPath EmergingPath is offline
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Posts: 36
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrJay
All well said and in particular the need to be skeptical. Nevertheless, I'm not entirely convinced human beings have a massive amount of "free will": we are all products of our parenting in particular, our culture, our country, our time in history and sheer unmitigated luck! Sure, we often have choices but those choices have to be made in the context of the aforementioned. For example, cultures where the killing of infants or old people has been deemed necessary for the group to survive - in our western culture it wouldn't happen now and it would be rated as the baddest of bad karma; but not, say, in some other places and times where the weakest weren't "carried" or supported and were eliminated to make it easier for the group to continue on. There are many such cultural examples through human history.
ArrJay,
But what you describe above (ie killing the weak), while outside of socially acceptable behavior, is still free will. If you want to kill the weak you can, but depending upon the society, there may be a price you will have to pay for making that free will decision.

Regards,
EP
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  #20  
Old 22-12-2018, 05:42 AM
ArrJay ArrJay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by interim
ArrJay, you are asking intelligent questions, which is quite rare...


Thank you. One has to ask questions and one needs to be skeptical, to plod on towards the truth. There are a lot of charlatans and misinformation out there, and asking questions and in turn questioning the responses is an important part of the path towards enlightenment (which I personally would seem to be a long way away from).
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