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Originally Posted by Juanita
This theory of ideomotor effect, also known as the Carpenter effect does not resonate with me at all......
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Well Juanita, ideomotor effect does cover more than just Ouija, and I like to use the expression because of the connotations associated with the word ‘Ouija’being so negative.
As far as that Scientific study on why things appear to move and the data revealing – normally through blind testing – the evidence is quite convincing and gets no argument from me.
However, I do not think it has been sufficiently studied that the conclusions are necessarily true, but rather that the conclusions show that humans can be tricksters –
They can trick each other and themselves - nothing amazing about that revelation.
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Originally Posted by Juanita
I can understand the phenomena that your muscles may unknowlingly move the planchette, but don't see where that has anything to do with either the consciense or unconsciense mind--or with taroh or runes for that matter..
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Where it has something to do with consciousness though is obvious in that without consciousness there would be no thing to acknowledge any messaging coming through this form of communication.
Where it has to do with Subconsciousness is my own explanation in regards to the Science.
Generally ideomotor is explained by Science as an UN-conscious movement which is not recognised at the time by conscious awareness – and is associated with the users beliefs and desired results, and the user is literally fooled by their conscious state of awareness that they are not moving the pointing device and this is made most obvious by blindfolding the user and seeing what happens.
Without eyes, the user is no longer in control and the results verify that this is so, because there is no message – and in some tests – even the device is turned after the blindfold is placed on the user and a question is asked which should require a ‘Yes’ and the pointer moves to where the user thinks the ‘yes’ is, and thus verifies that it is the user who is either unconsciously or purposefully moving that pointer.
Tarot and Runes are part of that process to, depending upon how they are used but I am happy to agree with you at this point that they need not be regarded as necessarily ideomotor effect...but rather that ‘Ouija’ is more like how someone uses Tarot and Runes rather than the other way around – my bad – *I need to explain this in more detail for clarification.
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Originally Posted by Juanita
Spirit and the afterlife does exist so taking them out of the equation does not make sense....
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Beliefs exist about Spirit and afterlife. These are different for different folks, cultures, religions etc.
Beliefs have to be factored into the equation as unproven, and therefore scientifically unverifiable.
This is why I recommend removing beliefs from the process and just letting the ideomotor effect ‘speak’ for its self.
*It would be better at this point to start a thread about my own experiences rather than try to expand my explanations in this one.
<^>
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