How is our physical body or this material world an illusion?

Originally Posted by Starman

I say it is and opinion because I know that my perspective will change and the opinion I have now will change, with my further growth and development. What I perceive now I did not perceive years ago, and later may not perceive. I do not want to get stuck on one way of seeing things and only one way of seeing things, that enters the purview of religion.

Someone once said to me, "Change the word, change the paradigm." Words have power, and the words we use have power over us. I personally don't like the word 'opinion' because of the connotations, but then it'll have different connotations to you. For me the connotations are of being lesser. Throwaway if you like. Beliefs tend to be a little more sure and 'solid', but they are going to change too. Maybe that's the whole point, that within the context of time we can realise progress.

We can have multiple perspectives at any one time. all we have to do is make the choice.

Originally Posted by Starman

I have had out-of-body experiences while sitting in quiet meditation, and they are beyond the 5-senses, or at least removed from the human quality of our 5-senses. Out-of-body experinces that I have had changed my life, and my perspective, forever. All of these experiences which I have had have been awesome, and they left me awestruck, with incredible, unimaginable, beauty. Truly beyond words.

The thing about and out-of-body experience is that you gain a lot of insight but when you come back to your physical body/brain, it is difficult to retain that insight. The human mind can't handle it, especially ego. It's like getting stoned and you gain a great realization, which you write down on paper, and then you sober up and go and look at that paper and all it has on it is the word "it." Well that word "it" made so much sense to you when you were stoned but it makes no sense at all now.

I've had a few myself and yes, they do very much change perceptual reality and it never goes back the way it was. The interesting thing is that I've shared them with others and they've been to the same places and talked to the same beings. I don't try and express it in human terms and I don't share them with many people, only those that I sense will understand - and then there's little need to express anyway. It would be too easy to become too 'entangled' with that realm and I'd stay there.

Originally Posted by Starman

To say that we created what is not and illusion is to say that we created our essence, what we truly are at our core, which is not and illusion. I don't know, but I do feel that we created what is and illusion.

Perception is reality so the illusion can be just as real as anything else. The question is though, are we asking the right question? If we create reality and illusion, what are the reasons for that and what are we conscious of? I think that is what it's all about in the end, 'generating' consciousness.

Originally Posted by Starman

I have a hard time with the concept of absolute truth, because infinity is endless, and maybe that is and absolute truth, but beyond that is unknowable by the human mind. The truth that people express is but and affirmation to themselves of their truth, and yes it may have and agenda.

'Quite in agreement there. Absolute' is a word the mind uses, as is any word that prefixes 'truth'. Perhaps if people thought about the truth of themselves they express how many would pause for thought?

Originally Posted by Starman

I have often said that you have to go through hell to get to heaven, but it is a hell which we ourselves have created. It is not what life does to us as much as it is how we react to what life has done to us. Religion is and attempt to organize and codify spirituality. Spirituality today is in danger of becoming a religion.

Most people practice their Spirituality religiously, and certainly ideologies and theologies seem to play a large part in discussions in here. But then, that's how religion began in the first place. Perhaps if the politics could be removed..... .

It's been said that religion is for those that are afraid of going to hell and Spirituality is for those that have been there. Certainly true for me, but then looking back, if I was given the same choices today to do it all over again I wouldn't change a thing.

Originally Posted by Starman

Yes, I definitely agree about the shadow self, but I also perceive that the darkness is nothing more than the shadow of the light. In this dualistic human existence opposite poles are extremes of the same thing. To the extent that a person can love to that extent they can also hate; the continuum between love and hate is passion, which can go either way. The more aware we become the narrower the path and the quicker the karmic response to our actions.

To me the darkness is nothing more than what we ignore and judge, and if we 'shone our light' there or embraced it then it wouldn't be so dark any more. The Shadow Self and Spirituality are extremes of the same thing, our Spirituality couldn't happen without the Shadow Self and the 'illusion' to make it as real as 'Absolute Truths'.

I'm not sure if the Path is narrower, I think that once you become more aware it becomes wider if anything. Sometimes you need a human response and sometimes they work better than a Spiritual one. The CBT liberated me in many ways and showed me that I have the choice of perspective at any given moment. That opens up the possibilities. I'm also not a huge fan of karma, it's something that has never made any sense to me even after so many very Spiritual discussions about it.

Originally Posted by Starman

People attach the word "evil" to things they consider worst than bad. They may even consider their shadow self to be evil. We often know things by their opposite; one of the major features of the human mind is to compare and contrast things. If not for evil we just may take love for granted. The true, and only, battle is within us. Most people practice possessiveness more then they practice love, including myself, especially in my past.

Good and evil are created by subjective perceptual reality and nothing is inherently 'anything' until we attach meaning. In the context of Life's Purpose/Karmic Obligations an act of Love (rape or abuse as Spiritual development) becomes, in both human and Spiritual reality, an act of evil. So while I agree that the mind uses dichotomies to assist understanding - good vs evil for instance - if we are so Spiritual after all how does that act of Love with two Souls in agreement become evil? Does good or evil exist or are they products of our perceptual reality, and therefore illusory/transitory?

Often it's the anecdotes that inspire me and not the Spiritual technobabble. I remember reading a story of two Souls that were discussing their future incarnations. One sad that she wanted the experience of being raped, because it would assist her development. Her fellow Spirit said that he Loved her enough to commit the act, but she had to remember that he was doing it because he Loved her.

I'm not saying that as humans we commit such acts out of Love, but in the context of Life's Purpose/Karmic Obligations it does make me think. I've been called crazy in these forums for considering thanking the person who abused me for many years, because without him I would have been very different.

Originally Posted by Starman

Okay, here I go again, in my opinion, eternity is the absence of time and infinity is the absence of space. All space is occupied by divine presence so there is no such thing as open space, and where there is no space there is no time.

Yes, all time is local, but even more then that. The U.S. has 4-time zones and China, which has a larger landmass than the U.S., only has 1-time zone. It's called Beijing time. That is like whatever time it is in Washington, D.C. would be the same time all over the U.S. 10:PM on the U.S. east coast would be 10:PM on the U.S. west coast regardless whether it was dark outside or not.

I find it fascinating how just about every religion created its own calendar, and the calendar which most of the word follows is the Christian calendar, but the Chinese have their own calendar, as does Hindus, Jews, etc. Time is arbitrary.

Isn't eternity relative to.... non-eternity? If there was no time would there be eternity, if there was no space would there be infinity? Or is there infinite space?

Here in the UK we used to use what was called 'London time', as denoted by the sun over the Greenwich meridian. Other parts of the country, especially in this neck of the woods, were an hour either side depending on their being east or west of Greenwich. People around here were always an hour early for their trains because we're in the east. I guess Beijing time keeps a standard across all of China and it works for them, I guess.

Most of the calendars are based on Pagan observations of the rotation of the earth, marked primarily by Equinoxes and Solstices. That's the reason Jesus was born on the 25th of December, it's because for three days at the Winter Solstice (22nd of December) the sun rises on the same spot on the horizon, and on the 25th it restarts its Journey across the sky again. Easter is the Spring Equinox. Other religious calendars celebrate events specific to that religion, which is why they can be so different. Still though, there's still the observation of the rotation of the earth in terms of days and years that would be pretty much universal in terms of the mechanical measurements.

We have 60 seconds to a minute and 60 minutes to an hour because the Sumerians could count up to 60 on their fingers. That's a neat trick when you challenge your buddy for dollars-for-fingers counting.

The past is memory, the future is expectation, and all we have is now. Where does that put your changing opinion?

Originally Posted by Starman

I like that last sentence, and I embrace what you have said about every experience is for the benefit of our deeper being. This life is the journey of the soul not the journey of the human shell that we animate. I have had similar experiences to what you have shared, and have seen lots of people die, and many who should have died because of their injuries but didn't, especially when I was a combat medic in Vietnam.

Sometimes it just doesn't make sense, does it? My colleague's son was taken to hospital yesterday with suspected Covid-19 and he's only five years old. Healthy young people have died while at-risk oldies have survived it, and to the human mind it doesn't make sense. Potentially I could lose at least four of my immediate family before this is over.

My mother has been waiting over 60 years to be with my father, and had it not been for me in her womb she would have gone the day he died. She's never stopped Loving him, and he has never stopped Loving her. For her, contracting Covid-19 would be a release. Part of our fundamental human Spirituality is the search to be something bigger than ourselves, and I often wonder if this is one of the 'drivers' of the Journey. But when you realise that you are a part of something on that 'scale'?

Originally Posted by Starman

Amen to that.
Namaste, and thank you for and interesting discussion.

Namaste, and the thanks are reciprocated.

[Starman]

Greenslade, I just could not resist not commenting on your last post, you raised some interesting propositions, questions, etc. But I’m not going to do the quote/reply thing this time, just splash some of my related perspectives.

Yes, if you change the word you change the paradigm, and how we define something is how we will embrace and approach that something. Words are powerful, but they can also be irrelevant. The Hebrew Kabbalah teaches a course on words of power. It is primarily based on something called Gematria, which are numbers combined with words.

Like the Romans had a alphanumeric system that combined letters and numbers, so did the Hebrew language, but the Hebrew alphanumeric system is very esoteric and has great utility in consciousness development. I accept that sound was the first thing to manifest in the creation of the universe, i.e. even if we adhere to the Big Bang Theory, that was a sound, or the Biblical, “In the beginning was the word,” that “word” is emulated by many yogis as “Om,” said to resemble the primordial first sound. Words as sounds can be very powerful but also the written word, as we transfer the written word to our mind, e.g., psycholinguistics.

I’m usually careful about sharing my out-of-body experiences also but feel here, with anonymity, I feel freer about sharing such experiences. I believe that the illusion is a conduit for that greater reality. I embrace that we can only grow our consciousness in the illusion. This physical illusion provides us with a make believe matrix where we can mold and shape ourselves. For what purpose, well the jury is still out on that one. Although the “Our Father” prayer may give some indication; “thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.” Shaping consciousness to produce a truly Kingdom of Blissful Heaven on Earth. I do accept that the “Garden of Eden” is the pure consciousness of bliss, and we deliberately left that pure consciousness to procreate, but got very attached to the flesh, and much more then that since. The flesh is fine but getting overly attached to anything can be disconcerting.

Yes, I agree, perception is reality, and the illusion can be as real as anything else. But the out-of-body experience seemed more real to me because it is more than just a 3-dimensional existence; it feels different than this 3-dimensional physical existence, and also looks different. But mainly it’s the feel, which is a form of perception as well. I was blind for 5-years, lost my eyesight in Vietnam, but I could perceive even though I had absolutely no eyesight. We perceive with all of our senses, our mind, and our feelings. When I was a medic in Vietnam, back in 1967, I saw people shot multiple times with high caliber bullets piercing vital organs and they lived, while another person shot once with a small caliber bullet died. After seeing such things for many years, even after leaving the military and working in the civilian medical field, I came to the conclusion that everyone has their predetermined time to die. Now fate verses self determination is another discussion, but I believe that they coexist, and some things are fated and some are determined by us as individuals.

As far as the woman, or disembodied soul, who wanted to experience rape. I do believe we go through what we go through for soul growth and only us can determine how we will grow from our experiences, be they horrific or not. As someone who once worked in the mental health field I have heard all sorts of stories that I once thought were crazy and now view as common. There are men and women who have a secret desire to be roughly sexually handled. Is it normal, well it is prevalent. I have talked to lots of females, as a therapist, who experimented with all sorts of sexual behaviors, and I was not even a sex therapist. So what you have said about this does not sound strange to me.

There are acts of love and then there is the presence of love standing on its own, without a reason, person, or object of love. But the crux of the story you told is will they remember once they incarnate? Because if they don’t law enforcement and the judge won’t buy it that they had a prearrangement.

I do not feel that eternity is relative to non-eternity because they are not juxtaposition. Non-eternity, or the illusion, exists within eternity. Infinity and eternity is everywhere but that which is finite and non-eternal is limited, and it exists only because of eternity. Eternity supports, impregnates, and permeates non-eternity. Non-eternity would not exist without eternity.

My mother has been waiting over 60 years to be with my father, and had it not been for me in her womb she would have gone the day he died. She's never stopped Loving him, and he has never stopped Loving her. For her, contracting Covid-19 would be a release. Part of our fundamental human Spirituality is the search to be something bigger than ourselves, and I often wonder if this is one of the 'drivers' of the Journey. But when you realise that you are a part of something on that 'scale'?

I had to quote this, it is very beautiful, and I think we search for something bigger than ourselves because we are bigger than ourselves, e.g. infinite. The Governor of California has created a backup health corp made up of retired medical people, which I signed up for, to help out once this virus peaks here, which it has not yet.

I am well over fifty with underlying health issues but felt I had skills that might be needed so I jumped in. I am not suicidal but feel I am prepared for my own death, and working with others who are dying. Like I said earlier, if it is time for me to go nothing will stop that; it is just a matter of the method of death. Be it COVID-19 or a very bad car crash, etc. If I die while helping others that would be and honorable way for me to go. I have seen lots of people die for lesser things. Hang-in there my friend.

Originally Posted by Kioma

That our bodies and physical manifestations are an illusion is absurd. How can reality be an illusion? This is often quoted and often misunderstood.
.

+ 1

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by Starman

Greenslade, I just could not resist not commenting on your last post, you raised some interesting propositions, questions, etc. But I’m not going to do the quote/reply thing this time, just splash some of my related perspectives.

Yes, if you change the word you change the paradigm, and how we define something is how we will embrace and approach that something. Words are powerful, but they can also be irrelevant. The Hebrew Kabbalah teaches a course on words of power. It is primarily based on something called Gematria, which are numbers combined with words.

Like the Romans had a alphanumeric system that combined letters and numbers, so did the Hebrew language, but the Hebrew alphanumeric system is very esoteric and has great utility in consciousness development. I accept that sound was the first thing to manifest in the creation of the universe, i.e. even if we adhere to the Big Bang Theory, that was a sound, or the Biblical, “In the beginning was the word,” that “word” is emulated by many yogis as “Om,” said to resemble the primordial first sound. Words as sounds can be very powerful but also the written word, as we transfer the written word to our mind, e.g., psycholinguistics.

I’m usually careful about sharing my out-of-body experiences also but feel here, with anonymity, I feel freer about sharing such experiences. I believe that the illusion is a conduit for that greater reality. I embrace that we can only grow our consciousness in the illusion. This physical illusion provides us with a make believe matrix where we can mold and shape ourselves. For what purpose, well the jury is still out on that one. Although the “Our Father” prayer may give some indication; “thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.” Shaping consciousness to produce a truly Kingdom of Blissful Heaven on Earth. I do accept that the “Garden of Eden” is the pure consciousness of bliss, and we deliberately left that pure consciousness to procreate, but got very attached to the flesh, and much more then that since. The flesh is fine but getting overly attached to anything can be disconcerting.

Yes, I agree, perception is reality, and the illusion can be as real as anything else. But the out-of-body experience seemed more real to me because it is more than just a 3-dimensional existence; it feels different than this 3-dimensional physical existence, and also looks different. But mainly it’s the feel, which is a form of perception as well. I was blind for 5-years, lost my eyesight in Vietnam, but I could perceive even though I had absolutely no eyesight. We perceive with all of our senses, our mind, and our feelings. When I was a medic in Vietnam, back in 1967, I saw people shot multiple times with high caliber bullets piercing vital organs and they lived, while another person shot once with a small caliber bullet died. After seeing such things for many years, even after leaving the military and working in the civilian medical field, I came to the conclusion that everyone has their predetermined time to die. Now fate verses self determination is another discussion, but I believe that they coexist, and some things are fated and some are determined by us as individuals.

As far as the woman, or disembodied soul, who wanted to experience rape. I do believe we go through what we go through for soul growth and only us can determine how we will grow from our experiences, be they horrific or not. As someone who once worked in the mental health field I have heard all sorts of stories that I once thought were crazy and now view as common. There are men and women who have a secret desire to be roughly sexually handled. Is it normal, well it is prevalent. I have talked to lots of females, as a therapist, who experimented with all sorts of sexual behaviors, and I was not even a sex therapist. So what you have said about this does not sound strange to me.

There are acts of love and then there is the presence of love standing on its own, without a reason, person, or object of love. But the crux of the story you told is will they remember once they incarnate? Because if they don’t law enforcement and the judge won’t buy it that they had a prearrangement.

I do not feel that eternity is relative to non-eternity because they are not juxtaposition. Non-eternity, or the illusion, exists within eternity. Infinity and eternity is everywhere but that which is finite and non-eternal is limited, and it exists only because of eternity. Eternity supports, impregnates, and permeates non-eternity. Non-eternity would not exist without eternity.

You gotta watch that ole temptation Starman.

Your reality is defined by your perceptions, your perceptions are defined by your beliefs and your beliefs are defined by your definitions. And when you define what is Spiritual, for instance, by extension you also define what is not Spiritual. This is the nature of Duality, and those words have all the power of our reality. And it's us that gives those words power and meaning, so if we give the power to the words?

I had a look at Numerology and while I find it interesting, it can also be manipulated in the way language can. The number 666 is supposed to be the number of the Devil but Neron (Nero) Caeser was supposed to have been the devil it was alluding to. While it was interesting, I always wondered how it would change if it was Base12 instead of Base10, a Base12 system would make more sense to me because 12 seems to be a 'magic' number.

I read Lobsang Rampa as a youngster, him and the Tao Te Ching were my introductions to Spirituality. Lobsang Rampa said that the Sacred Sound Syllable was AUM and was the most complete expression of human vibrations into this level of existence. The "Aaaah" sound began deep in the throat, the "Uuuh" was more at the top of the throat and root of the mouth, while "Hmmmm" was on the lips. So while the Schumann Frequency is 7.83Hz God's frequency is 963Hz, it seems we have a little way to go yet so no resting on laurels.

I think Spirituality has it backwards. Consciousness is fundamental, which is where God creating the heavens and the earth comes from, and with The Word you're talking about quantum mechanics and consciousness creating matter from the primordial 'soup' of the Universal Quantum Field. Both reincarnation and Life's Purpose are based on us being Spirit first then having re/incarnated for our 'lessons'/development. Whether or not our consciousness can grow, it doesn't seem plausible to me and especially if consciousness has no form. That of form grows, consciousness is formless and epiphonomenal.

The Garden of Eden existed in Sumer, it's another part of Sumerian mythology that Christianity co-opted for it's own agenda. At the time hominids were not much more than apes and the Annunaki needed a workforce that could be trained more easily to care for the gardens. That's where the Biblical story comes from. Eating the apple is supposed to represent Enki changing the DNA strands to create the frontal cortex, which gave rise to the hominids becoming a little more God-like - which Enlil didn't appreciate. Enlil then created the Deluge to wipe out mankind because he could see the potential for the adapted hominids to become as great as the gods (Annunaki) themselves. Enki (AKA an angel) tipped off Noah and gave him instructions on ark-building.

The bliss of the Garden of Eden isn't bliss, but complete ignorant bliss.

I don't think we left that 'pure consciousness' behind, what I think we did was to express ourselves into this dimension of reality. AUM. There is also a scientific theory that 3d reality is not the basis of reality at all. The original theory is that 3D reality is the building block and the other dimensions are extrapolated from that - in the way the Platonic Solids are build from more complex solids. But in this new mathematical model, it theorises that reality is based on a 8D matrix rather than a 3D one. That means we're not starting with the 'basic' structure and going up, we've already started with a very complex structure to come down.

To me, consciousness is both fundamental and re-emergent.

The question for me is what makes it an illusion? If we perceive as real, if we perceive it as illusion then what are we conscious of? It's certainly never as it seems on the surface, but then according to Donald Hoffman our perceptual reality is based on 'icons' rather than the 'coding, etc' behind it all.

I'm an energy person and often I can sense people's energies and moods, sometimes even through reading their posts. And no, I don't do it deliberately. I also sense energies in places, and sometimes at work when changes are coming, there's always underlying currents coming through even before the changes actually occur. Being a medium is interesting as well because I tend to feel a shift in my energies as my consciousness goes up a few notches. The same thing happens when I 'ghost write'. Most of us can and many people have intuition of some kind or another.

I can't count the number of times I should have died over my Lifetime, and many of the times it was only an 'Act of God' that kept me alive. I was also given an 'exit point' many years ago and decided to stay because I felt as though I had something to do. Since then I've had a couple of close encounters with death and been in situations that I shouldn't have walked away from. Life's Purpose made sense to me because that's how I could perceive things, that experiences I'd gone through made me 'me', and because of that it changed the reality of others. Same as you must have done over and over again. I think the "What?" is predetermined by us as Spirit and the "How?" is where we are now, as in us having the choice as to how we experience/perceive it.

If any of us could turn the clocks right back to the beginning of our Lives, would we change anything? I wouldn't. I'd got through it all again with exactly the same outcomes, and pay exactly the same price by way of experiences. Yes there is something 'bigger than me' - I'm bigger than me. I've come to understand the differences I've made in people's Lives, differences I wouldn't acknowledge at the time because of my fractured personality due to childhood trauma. I'd do it all again - make the choices then forget I'd made the choices, have the very same experiences for the same reasons and results.

That's going back to definitions creating your reality, because when you define what eternity is then by extension you also define what is not eternity. Does eternity exist or does it exist in your consciousness? What if there is just what IS?

Originally Posted by Starman

I had to quote this, it is very beautiful, and I think we search for something bigger than ourselves because we are bigger than ourselves, e.g. infinite. The Governor of California has created a backup health corp made up of retired medical people, which I signed up for, to help out once this virus peaks here, which it has not yet.

I am well over fifty with underlying health issues but felt I had skills that might be needed so I jumped in. I am not suicidal but feel I am prepared for my own death, and working with others who are dying. Like I said earlier, if it is time for me to go nothing will stop that; it is just a matter of the method of death. Be it COVID-19 or a very bad car crash, etc. If I die while helping others that would be and honorable way for me to go. I have seen lots of people die for lesser things. Hang-in there my friend.

I have to salute you on that one Starman, from one ex-serviceman to another. I was in the Royal Air Force for nine years. I have a great admiration for those give their time to others even though they put themselves at risk. It's good to see that this situation mankind finds itself in brings out the best of humanity as well.

I made a promise to a little girl, that one day I would dance with her. Fate willing I'll keep that promise and I'll accept everything in between with good grace, because that's the choice I made. My worst fear was that I didn't die screaming like a big girl's blouse like they do in the movies, and the times I've sincerely thought my number was up showed me that it wasn't going to happen. There is a certain kind of bliss in knowing you're going Home with a feeling that you've done a good job, and that when it's time it's time.

[freddyfresh]

Originally Posted by Kioma

That our bodies and physical manifestations are an illusion is absurd. How can reality be an illusion? This is often quoted and often misunderstood.

To answer your question, it must be very closely examined just how human perception works. Like a complex riddle, this is something you have to think about. Remember, the human brain actually experiences it's 'reality' by nerve impulses informing the brain, which in turn 'builds' a mental representation of reality in your mind.

So there you have it. Reality is NOT an illusion - but mistaking our perception of reality AS reality? Our 'reality' isn't reality at all - it is a representation made possible through a complex assemblage of biochemical receptors and mental refabrication. When you think of the moon, do you actually have the moon physically inside your skull? - or is it more accurate to say you have a mental representation that you are thinking of as the moon in your mind? SO - the physical moon is the reality, and it is your mental representation that is the illusion.

Science readily points out the limitations of our biological sense organs, and that is only from a purely physical perspective. How much more is beyond that?

Think about it.

Well actually I would have agreed 100% with your comments before a few months back when I had a unique experience which changed my perception to the point where I now see things quite differently, (physical things like clouds etc..). I tend to see a profoundness in simple things that I never noticed before. Maybe I'm just getting old or maybe I'm reading too many books but I am not imagining this at all (I'm 57 years old btw).. It gets to the point now where I actually feel like I am walking around in a dream or an illusion (at times) not always.

Originally Posted by freddyfresh

Well actually I would have agreed 100% with your comments before a few months back when I had a unique experience which changed my perception to the point where I now see things quite differently, (physical things like clouds etc..). I tend to see a profoundness in simple things that I never noticed before. Maybe I'm just getting old or maybe I'm reading too many books but I am not imagining this at all (I'm 57 years old btw).. It gets to the point now where I actually feel like I am walking around in a dream or an illusion (at times) not always.

It is a wonderful and exciting time when the third eye opens. As you integrate this perception and it's insights grounding will come much easier.

And let me say this is exactly why I said what I said. The fundamental assumption is that what we experience IS reality - even when it changes. We think, "Oh, I used to think I knew reality, but now I really know reality."

But 'reality', by definition, doesn't change. When we see things in a new way, it's not the world that has changed, only our perspective.

Reality, by definition, is still the same. Only we have changed. Consciousness IS consciousness OF, and what is in our consciousness is constantly and dynamically shifting, expanding, contracting - but it's ALL real, both the internal (personal) universe and the external (shared) universe.

Awareness is just that - pure awareness has nothing in it except the consciousness of one's own living awareness.

People like to think of the 'spiritual' as a place or a realm or a dimension, but it's not, it's just as much a part of 'reality' as anything physical. What they both are, really, is a perspective, each looking at the SAME thing, but from vastly different viewpoints.

I have had these experiences as well, and I can tell you how 'real' they feel. I certainly concur with the term 'consciousness expansion', which has a tendency to make one feel that one reality is more real than the other, because it can feel SO real! But when you stub your toe, does not that feel real too?

It is all part of our existence. Each has it's story to tell, it's purpose in our lives, it's meaning - that is, after all, why we find ourselves in them.

[freddyfresh]

I agree however I also entertain the actual notion that as an observer changes what is being observed, so does a "different world" begin to manifest when we change our perspective. This explains why EVERYTHING is always "correct" there are no wrong answers in an infinite universe. One fragment of divinity holds all the power of the universe. And that fragment is the gift that we self actualize when we understand that this simple belief can begin the process and change ourselves as well as our environment.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by soulfulmusing

It's often stated that our physical body or this material world is a manifestation of the higher power, but they are considered to an illusion. Detachment from the body is often emphasized and so is said to not get stuck in the matrix.

1) But what exactly constitutes as 'illusion'?

2) If it’s a dream. If we are the creator and the creation, why do we only dream realistic stuff in this life?

Illusion is a combination of both Mithya (false beliefs and false mental and emotional conditioning) and maya (ignorance of truth). Wherever there is Mithya, maya or ignorance of the truth follows. Ignorance of the truth always follows false beliefs and false mental and emotional conditioning.

"satya or satyam. It is not merely truthfulness, but that singular Truth that can never be untrue at any time, place, or circumstance. Non-dual Truth transcends, time, space, and causation. Note, that time and space create divisions. If something transcends time and space it has no limits or boundaries. Therefore, this Truth/Reality must be infinite, eternal, and indivisible, hence, all-pervading. Further, there cannot be two infinites. Thus Brahman is all there is. So what is this world?

The statement above says it is mithya, false. But what does this false mean? It means changing, impermanent, perishable, superimposed, and dependent on something else for its existence. Another great statement from the Upanisads asserts, Sarvam khalvidam Brahman, All this, indeed, is Brahman. All this (idam), meaning that all we see with our mind and senses is Brahman, but we are not recognizing it as Brahman. And this is maya, ignorance, the cause of all suffering.That one, the Eternal among non-eternals, the Intelligence of the intelligent, who though ever one fulfills the desires of the many those who realize that One as existing in their own self, to them belongs eternal peace, and to none else.

Shining like burnished gold in the luminous sheath of intelligence, the deepest core of the human being, there dwells Brahman, stainless, indivisible, and pure. That is the Light of all that shines. That is what the knowers of the Self realize."
http://www.advaita-academy.org/blogs/brahman-satya/

[freddyfresh]

Originally Posted by Kioma

That our bodies and physical manifestations are an illusion is absurd. How can reality be an illusion? This is often quoted and often misunderstood.

To answer your question, it must be very closely examined just how human perception works. Like a complex riddle, this is something you have to think about. Remember, the human brain actually experiences it's 'reality' by nerve impulses informing the brain, which in turn 'builds' a mental representation of reality in your mind.

So there you have it. Reality is NOT an illusion - but mistaking our perception of reality AS reality? Our 'reality' isn't reality at all - it is a representation made possible through a complex assemblage of biochemical receptors and mental refabrication. When you think of the moon, do you actually have the moon physically inside your skull? - or is it more accurate to say you have a mental representation that you are thinking of as the moon in your mind? SO - the physical moon is the reality, and it is your mental representation that is the illusion.

Science readily points out the limitations of our biological sense organs, and that is only from a purely physical perspective. How much more is beyond that?

Think about it.

I agree but I'm quite certain many people who have had (what you may not believe in) Near Death Experiences claim that for them this is definitely the illusion and what they have experienced appears much more "real" than this life experience. To me it is all relative and if all that is exists inside our skulls. We are all screwed I'm thinking

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Altair

Something being temporary is not the same as it being an illusion.

Yes I agree, but I say what is the observation state, it is real in the temporary state. The difference, in the end state it is not was. I to confirm it is real.


Consciousness still remain in a dream, I point to the subconscious. Not remembering is merely is a physical process having to do with (short term) memory.