Why I lack belief.

[Dwerg]

This one is obviously aimed at people who believe. The main reason I lack belief is not because I reject it, but because it narrows me from seeing other points of view. I'm interested in comprehending the width and the depth of life and this world, and cutting conclusions short with beliefs doesn't promote open-mindedness.

I'll also tell that navigating this world isn't easy when I'm constantly bombarded with people who wish to lock me down in their belief systems. Being locked down like that isn't exactly my idea of freedom.

As for spirituality and science I don't see a big difference. Both deals with growth and the hard questions, and I like science because it simply says "I don't know, but I'd like to figure out". It aims at the object of study rather than just hand out the ultimate answer. To me the ultimate answer is exactly just to keep learning, I might never really know, but the activity keeps me satisfied.

There are things science can't explain, but that I can't deny to have happened. This is why we do science in the first place, to figure out what we don't understand.

Well said. I agree with all of that. Well, except that by taking that stance, you are not rejecting 'belief', you are surely just rejecting established belief systems? You've just said there is no big difference between science and spirituality (something I agree with too), that is itself a belief.

But I like your approach, and this has always been my approach too. Anything else is not a belief in anything except what other earthly human sorts have said or written.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Dwerg

This one is obviously aimed at people who believe. The main reason I lack belief is not because I reject it, but because it narrows me from seeing other points of view. I'm interested in comprehending the width and the depth of life and this world, and cutting conclusions short with beliefs doesn't promote open-mindedness.

I'll also tell that navigating this world isn't easy when I'm constantly bombarded with people who wish to lock me down in their belief systems. Being locked down like that isn't exactly my idea of freedom.

As for spirituality and science I don't see a big difference. Both deals with growth and the hard questions, and I like science because it simply says "I don't know, but I'd like to figure out". It aims at the object of study rather than just hand out the ultimate answer. To me the ultimate answer is exactly just to keep learning, I might never really know, but the activity keeps me satisfied.

There are things science can't explain, but that I can't deny to have happened. This is why we do science in the first place, to figure out what we don't understand.

I am hearing a lot of belief in the above, so it makes me doubt that you lack belief. Followers of science have a belief in it. They believe that the methods, laws, rules, theorems, etc lead to something ‘correct’, ‘beneficial’, ‘real’, ‘has happened’, ‘proof’, even ‘true’.

Perhaps you mean ‘faith’ not belief’? Or perhaps you might clarify which group of believers you are aiming this topic at?

I hear you have an issue with others putting their stuff on you. What you see as ‘locked down’ is another’s sense of security and safety. That does not give them the right to put it on you. However, it might not be done from ill intent.

Rather than confront ‘believers’, it might be more productive to address those that you see as wronging you…

For me, I consider myself a Christian. However, I, too am hungry for expanded knowledge. So, I explore and learn new things.

What I have found with having an open mind, is that there are so many cases that I can be researching that has nothing to do with Christianity, but within those presentations, I am able to actually have a greater understanding of God had I just relied on bible study alone.

I think having an open mind is a wonderful thing to have. Embrace it. :)

[Visitor]

I just watched an old movie "Star Trek the motion picture". In the final scene where Voyager-6 wishes to join the creator, these words transpired: (As best as I could remember)

Spock states that Voyager-6 has accumulated all knowledge that spanned the universe and wants more.
McCoy: "What is more than the universe?"
Decker: "Other dimensions, higher levels of being."
Spock: "The existence of which cannot be proven logically, therefore, (the logical mind) is incapable of believing in them."
Kirk: "What is required is a human quality, our capacity to leap beyond logic."

[Dwerg]

I don't really know, hahahahaha

[lemex]

duplicated

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Dwerg

This one is obviously aimed at people who believe. The main reason I lack belief is not because I reject it, but because it narrows me from seeing other points of view. I'm interested in comprehending the width and the depth of life and this world, and cutting conclusions short with beliefs doesn't promote open-mindedness.

I'll also tell that navigating this world isn't easy when I'm constantly bombarded with people who wish to lock me down in their belief systems. Being locked down like that isn't exactly my idea of freedom.

As for spirituality and science I don't see a big difference. Both deals with growth and the hard questions, and I like science because it simply says "I don't know, but I'd like to figure out". It aims at the object of study rather than just hand out the ultimate answer. To me the ultimate answer is exactly just to keep learning, I might never really know, but the activity keeps me satisfied.

There are things science can't explain, but that I can't deny to have happened. This is why we do science in the first place, to figure out what we don't understand.

A few things to consider about spirituality and science evidence though both are based in observation is in the field of scientific observation that which we test happens over and over again and very consistently. They repeat every time and one can see the patterns immediately as well. But in the spiritual observation this isn't the case. Events may or may not happen every time. For instance, the paranormal, if you include it, may happen only one or two times in a life. Other events may be limited to factors such as emotional energy, physical location, money, personnel, attitude, and so on. In the science field you have testing equipment but in the spiritual you do not. There are many scientific tests but not spiritual tests. I do not lack belief in the spiritual side but like the poster reject it when it is not proper. Would this be the more open mind, even for your own beliefs.

The thing to consider is when an event happens in the physical world it usually happens when you are not prepared, and you don't walk around with a test kit. Control of it is then harder. The experience of the spiritual side is something one may never experience and so any experience you are told happened will always be 2nd hand information, only information. And this is the key difference. The state of it is different and happened. Information is different. Spiritual event are also tangible and physical but leaves no real observable evidence because it is gone or out of the range of our limited perception as well as mental block which have scientifically been tested and are supported by science itself. Also in scientific testing you are not breaking any physical laws where fixed patterns happen all the time automatically.

I think it was Bono who said "The less you know, the more you believe." - belief is for those who do not wish to think.

David
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alent.org

[organic born]

Originally Posted by Dwerg

As for spirituality and science I don't see a big difference. Both deals with growth and the hard questions, and I like science because it simply says "I don't know, but I'd like to figure out". It aims at the object of study rather than just hand out the ultimate answer. To me the ultimate answer is exactly just to keep learning, I might never really know, but the activity keeps me satisfied.

And me too.

Particularly the newer science of the last decade. Science is in the process of being rebooted into something quite spectacular and revealing. In some ways it's looking similar to spirituality., but without much of the baggage of previous culturally entrenched assumptions. Just the resent scientific learning as to how our brains work alone is far more satisfying that wishing we could "transcend", (as though that were a goal). There is now a place for meditation in science, but the observation in this case if for better clarification as to the means in which we think about things. Our brains are in evolutionary tow, and yet we're no longer living the kinds of life that our brains were evolved to contend with. So we need to quiet the chatter in order to look about us with a cleaner appreciation of what we're currently faced with on a day-to-day basis. You can do so with meditation, while "Transcendence" will occur naturally when we die. I currently have a job to do, wife that I love and kids to look after. The last thing I want to focus-on is "elsewhere".