Joint pain and inflammation

[nummi]

Originally Posted by Podshell

I made the mistake of including fish in my diet a few years ago , it helped at first but again I may have overdone it with it and had some opposite effect.

here it says the oil is better

http://www.arthritis.org/living-with...h-oil-gout.php

Purines are found in the meat of the fish but not in highly purified, molecularly distilled fish oil, so it should not affect your gout. I recommend everyone consume at least 2,000 milligrams (mg) per day of EPA and DHA (two fatty acids in fish oil crucial to human health). Those with autoimmune disorders and arthritis should consume 3,000 to 6,000 mg in divided doses with meals.

(perhaps if absolutely necessary I will take small amounts of the oil, but the other foodstuffs and beer avoidance worked very well)

The oil has to come from a fermentation process, and not from processing with heat. The ones processed with heat are harmful.

You probably cooked the fish... How about eating it raw? You've never tried them raw, have you?

Processing with heat creates many toxins and destroys many nutrients. So no wonder you would end up with health issues.
There are some people who cannot eat cooked animal products at all. But are perfectly fine with raw. I'm curious, maybe that's why some meat-avoiders avoid meat, because they cannot handle cooked meat?
Cooked foods cause inflammation.

[Podshell]

Originally Posted by Tobi

If people feel they need to eat meat then that is up to them. Or if they have a system which can only accept animal protein and cannot benefit from non-animal protein -that is up to them. Some people have illnesses and peculiarities which mean they cannot properly assimilate vegetable protein.
.

Of course it is. I was arguing with nummi's point that avoiding meat is bad, and I was also pointing out that there are consequences to making the choice of including meat in the diet

[Podshell]

nummi

This acidic food thing is nonsense. Whatever you eat, it always gets treated with load of stomach acid in the stomach.
It's the minerals body needs, not alkalinity or acidity. Minerals.

The lack of minerals can and does cause these health issues. Though other things can contribute as well, like vitamin deficiencies.

I don't get your approach , you start of on the assumption that everone is in full health by dismissing the acid problem then go on to say that people are not in perfect health and have faulty digestion.

The fact is some foodstuffs in certain people do not get treated with adequate acid and in some too much acid is formed, this can be seen in whole tablets/pills passing through the body or ulcers forming from too much acid produced by the stomach.

(I ill have to answer your other points a bit at a time)

[Podshell]

You simply take the word of those people without thinking it through on your own?
How are you supposed to verify, for yourself, whether what they say is true or not, if you in yourself do not possess, at that time, anything that could show that they are right, or that they are wrong?

You try something yourself and if it tallies with what the experts say time and time again you begin to trust the source, this is a natural human trait.

On what do you base that "my way" would take many lifetimes?
I ask because I can see and I know it would not take many lifetimes.

Because it is too big a subject for one person in one life, the ancient chinese and aryuvedic health systems were not just based on a single persons experiments.

These things I have found out thus far about diet, health, the world in general. I did not know these 2 years ago.
I have found out by researching, trying, observing, comparing, thinking. How else would you hope to find the truth? If you're not following some dogma, then things move quickly.

Same here but these are very small wells of knowledge compared to the whole

A lot of profit there... Agriculture business is far wider and far more destructive to health and planet than meat-industry.
(Doesn't apply to very few people) If you don't eat meat, quality meat not poisoned, then your brain can't work right nor optimally. You'll be slower of mind and harder to come to truthful conclusions.

The present agriculture system is, if you look at kibbutz/temple/monastary systems these are not for profit they are to feed people.

I've seen many meat-avoiders "discuss" things. The sight was awful. Even in this forum in the vegan subforum there were such individuals - they couldn't keep themselves civil and calm even as I tried to discuss things peacefully and calmly. They are oblivious to their own minds workings and sayings. The things they say without seeing what they say... The contradictions, the lies, the shortsightedness, the ignorance, the blindness, the ignoring and avoiding relevant facts and points, etc. All with a punch of severe arrogance. Awful.
And they are prevalent throughout society. You don't see people eating an almost entirely carnivorous diet so spread out everywhere forcing their opinions. Nor do you see the same from omnivorous dieters (who genetically we all are, so this should say a lot... why even try to explain it? we are genetically all omnivores). Should make one wonder why is that... Should really make one wonder what is up with almost all meat-avoiders, why do they generally tend to such bad behavior

So is it bad behaviour to kill an animal for food? having done so myself I would say yes, I would also ask you to take a look at your own posts and see how provocative they could be, also meat consumption is advertised extensively in our society and it has worked in brainwashing as people eat it at most meals many times a day.

Regarding trial and error. It takes months to try something out, and there are very many things to try out to get a truthful conclusion. If you begin your trials from a too wrong angle...
I got "lucky"... I got it mostly right with the first time around. So there were simply corrections to make, not a complete overhaul. The right things "fell to my lap" at the right time - this has happened again and again since.

It can take many years to realise some foodstuffs or the poisons within are effecting you, I think something like mercury can take up to thirty years.

[Podshell]

What I see meat-avoiders generally do is try out meat-avoiding, coupled with other changes they disregard completely in the final conclusion. Then they notice short-term improvements, which are caused not by avoiding meat but by those other changes. Then, disregarding the other changes, they make up their mind that avoiding meat is the right thing to do. Then long-term effects start manifesting... But since they've made their mind, and this kind of dieting makes brain very hard to work right, they won't be able to see themselves easily. Thus stuck in a loop, and if someone tries to bring out their faults, lies, contradictions, etc., then they get so angry and so arrogant.
Not all, as on some avoiding meat works, as their bodies are built in a way it can work. But all the rest...

The interesting thing about most meat-avoiders is that when you get down to it, they have very little to nothing to say. And use the opinions of others to justify their stance - which is absurd. This should also make one wonder. If they are so "right", then why have they so little to nothing to say, and if they do say something they cannot do it in their own thoughts? (As you can see, I explain and explain, could go on and on. My own thoughts and words.)

Seeing as most people like the taste of meat then the ulterior motive would be to find any excuse to eat it, not the other way round!!

The issue I noticed is that you say the same general things, with the same general tone, that majority of meat-avoiders say. You exhibit too similar qualities. This is the issue. (And so I give explanations and ask for explanations. But usually it's only me giving explanations but not receiving any...)
You have essentially asserted that avoiding meat, or eating very little of it, is the best thing for everyone. When the truth is this is not true. But sure, it could be true, but not on this planet and not at this time with the present plants.

Because we have disrupted the planets ecosystem does that mean then we HAVE to eat the animals or fight those who are messing it up, why pick on the innocent animals?

Yes, have come to a conclusion. But a conclusion based on what? Based on lies and half-truths - this is the issue. Thus the conclusions themselves either lies or half-truths.

You talk about lies, but condone killing of fellow creatures!

What do you mean by "believe"? Because the way I define "believe" does not apply to me. I don't believe anything.
I either perceive or know based on previous perception. No belief

.

That is how some people come to form a belief but itis not based on a full fund of knowledge.

I don't love money. I'd rather be without, but the people need to catch up first. Though I am finding ways to use less and less of it, while not suffering the reduced "need" of it, and actually living better and better.
Money restricts freedom, it gets in the way of life.
Money was introduced to humanity thousands of years age, and not for the good of humanity. There are more ways than one to learn the same lessons. Money has never been needed, and never will be.

Yes I agree, but the people who are causing damage to our food chain they cannot see this.

[Podshell]

Originally Posted by nummi

You probably cooked the fish... How about eating it raw? You've never tried them raw, have you?

Processing with heat creates many toxins and destroys many nutrients. So no wonder you would end up with health issues.
There are some people who cannot eat cooked animal products at all. But are perfectly fine with raw. I'm curious, maybe that's why some meat-avoiders avoid meat, because they cannot handle cooked meat?
Cooked foods cause inflammation.

I have eaten both raw fish and live fish, one of my employers used to have a small boat we fished at sea from.

I think some things should be cooked though even only slightly, especially if digestion is not up to it.

I know you are not keen on listening to experts but I read Dr Mercolas articles sometimes and they tally with much of what you believe, he is quite good, but advocates meat eating so I do not think he realises the bigger picture regards karma and the soul being the important part not the body

[Tobi]

Originally Posted by nummi

This acidic food thing is nonsense. Whatever you eat, it always gets treated with load of stomach acid in the stomach.
It's the minerals body needs, not alkalinity or acidity. Minerals.

The lack of minerals can and does cause these health issues. Though other things can contribute as well, like vitamin deficiencies.


Blood tests don't show everything. For example magnesium, only about 10% is in the blood, the rest in other body cells.
Do they do body cell analysis? Sure, if you pay a lot...
If you rely on blood tests to say whether you are deficient or not, then you have no idea whether you are deficient of something or not.
Plus that which the blood shows. Blood might show that you're not deficient, but what is going on in the body cells? Maybe body cells are deficient of that which blood is not.
Blood test alone doesn't show the whole truth.

Okay nummi, thank you. I did not realise that.
Apart from blood test results, I don't feel in any way deficient...but I guess that doesn't necessarily show if there is/isn't any nutritional deficiency going on. The best I can do is make sure I get a good balanced diet and take any supplements which my diet doesn't include.
I am only a non meat-eater for reasons of compassion, not for any other reason. I used to very much like to eat fish, butter and cheese.

[nummi]

Originally Posted by Tobi

Okay nummi, thank you. I did not realise that.
Apart from blood test results, I don't feel in any way deficient...but I guess that doesn't necessarily show if there is/isn't any nutritional deficiency going on. The best I can do is make sure I get a good balanced diet and take any supplements which my diet doesn't include.
I am only a non meat-eater for reasons of compassion, not for any other reason. I used to very much like to eat fish, butter and cheese.

I see people, just "normal" people, every day. And I see the issues they have, especially nutritional issues and related health problems. Already appearance alone says so much, and then what they say says a lot also, and behavior. It's easy to notice these things if I have had them myself and then got rid of them, especially that I got rid of some in such a way that at one moment I noticed "parts of me", negative "parts", just gone; there were issues I didn't even know were issues until I noticed they were gone, and once gone I compared my new self with the previous... and finally, obvious became obvious. Before I was unable to see the obvious - severe mental blindness (I see this in other people too, if they have it to whatever extent, as I've overcome mine). We are grown and raised blind to so much, it takes some effort and time to turn it around.
Most people "think" (they don't really think, for they do not know how to...) they live a whole life, but without seeing they have many problems. Even "thinking" those problems are part of who they are if they are aware of them.

Talking about compassion. A good example is dolphins. They are compassionate and loving and intelligent creatures... And they couldn't exist here if they didn't eat fish. There are fish that are rather "meant" to be food; the fish dolphins eat, one is herring.
Salmon. As they lay eggs and fertilize those eggs in rivers, their lives are over. They die. But their bodies are still very nutritious, and wild animals, especially bears, know this. Easy, clean, rich food just lying there ready to be consumed without needing to kill it first because it already is naturally dead. (Wild salmon, of course... not this farmed junk.)
Eating meat is okay, and the right thing to do. But is very highly important what kind of life the animal, the meat belonged to, lived. They have to have a long and happy life. Also the older the animal, the more nutritious the meat becomes anyway. So the best time to eat one is right after, or at, or close to, its life's natural end.
Butter and cheese. Very few can manage eating those without suffering negative health effects, if they are raw. Heavily boiled ones (pasteurized) are harmful to everyone. If I eat them, I can feel how it causes inflammation and makes my gut feel slightly "clogged and heavy". And it makes my skin bad.
Might as well add chickens. The layers. They lay eggs nearly every day. All those eggs could and would never become new living organisms. There would be so many, far too many to be possible to sustain them all. So that new organisms could come from those eggs they need to hatch, a chicken has to sit on top of the eggs for some weeks. They lay far more eggs than they could ever hope to sit on. Those eggs they could not hatch, would rot. Since most eggs would rot away anyway, why not instead eat them?

From personal experience I can say with absolute certainty. The meat (and fat and organs) of young animals is disgusting. That of old animals is delicious and so rich.

[nummi]

Originally Posted by Podshell

nummi
I don't get your approach , you start of on the assumption that everone is in full health by dismissing the acid problem then go on to say that people are not in perfect health and have faulty digestion.

I have never assumed that everyone is in full health.

The fact is some foodstuffs in certain people do not get treated with adequate acid and in some too much acid is formed, this can be seen in whole tablets/pills passing through the body or ulcers forming from too much acid produced by the stomach.

The alkalinity/acidity that was mentioned was not about the stomach and gut. In the stomach and gut yes, if things are far too alkaline or too acidic, then digestion is disrupted.

Tablets and pills are made of substances that are very hard to break apart by stomach acids, by design. The medical industry does not want healthy people, because if people were healthy there could be no medical industry. Not to mention no one is supposed to eat those things anyway...

Originally Posted by Podshell

You try something yourself and if it tallies with what the experts say time and time again you begin to trust the source, this is a natural human trait.

It certainly seems to be your trait. It is not my trait.

As I've said before, there are short-term effects, and long-term effects. If you make up your mind based on short-term effects, you'll never see the long-term effects for what they truly are.
If you start trusting your source, as you apparently have, based on short term effects... Rash and hasty decisions are not always right.
And also, do your sources include everything relevant? Of course not. I know this from personal experience. Many sources, one saying one, another saying another. So what's the truth then? Have to compare and think, and experiment if necessary, to see what and how much of either is right and wrong. And form your own picture of the whole, not give blind trust to any source. Make your own source, inside yourself, that's always developing as you find out more. It's what I do...
Even if someone is very right, it doesn't mean I start living according to that persons opinions. I have my own mind, I develop my own.

Because it is too big a subject for one person in one life, the ancient chinese and aryuvedic health systems were not just based on a single persons experiments.

Nor are mine. As I do research, there are many people, different experiences. To know what applies to me I have to experiment on myself, not just blindly trust them. Once tested on myself, I form my own. Then taking into consideration that people differ, as experiences differ, there are obviously differences. But there are overlaying general patterns that apply to nearly all, as research, thinking, experience, and comparing them shows. How these patterns play out on an individual depends on the individual peculiarities.

One harmful influence can have many different effects.
Different harmful influences can have the same effect.
Different influences, and one influence, can have the same effects
These are where it can get complex. But not really... if you are aware enough of the working.

If you identify the reasons that lead to an effect, looking at the persons appearance, thoughts put into words, behavior, etc., accompanied by being aware of the general patterns and what generally causes what, a lot can be concluded with precision.

Same here but these are very small wells of knowledge compared to the whole

Small yes compared to the whole. But at present time, present state we are in, and what we have easiest access to from our present location in every sense, this small is the most important.
To move on to more, first have to remove some obstacles. So a small thing can mean everything if the goal is to move on to higher, because this small thing can keep you from truly moving on for as long as it is not solved.
Some can bypass it, skip it entirely, through other areas being stronger. But that is very few.

The present agriculture system is, if you look at kibbutz/temple/monastary systems these are not for profit they are to feed people.

There are those who are not for profit. Same goes about animals, not just plants.

So is it bad behaviour to kill an animal for food? having done so myself I would say yes, I would also ask you to take a look at your own posts and see how provocative they could be, also meat consumption is advertised extensively in our society and it has worked in brainwashing as people eat it at most meals many times a day.

It is not bad behavior to kill for food if you need the food.
It is bad to kill for food if you don't need the food.

"Meat consumption is advertised extensively in our society and it has worked in brainwashing as people eat it at most meals many times a day"? I could say the same about plants... think about this a little, or a lot.
All the talk about "eat your vegetables"... and the fruits and vegetables and greens, full of toxins, that are sold in shops of many types. It's not just meat, it's everything.
How much do they advertise cookies and candies and such things? A lot... That all is heavily processed plants, as a result of the processing all poisonous, with extra added toxins. Essentially the same goes about meat industry meat; same thing, different source.

It's not that they advertise eating meat. It's the kind of meat they advertise eating. Meat full of toxins and other bad things - this is the reason it is advertised.
They also advertise eating plants full of toxins. Toxins. The reason why.

It goes both ways. Not just one way.

It is okay to eat meat at every meal. I do... Two meals a day, each time eggs, or fish, or meat, or fat, or organs. Almost each meal also plant stuff. Sometimes I skip a whole meal, don't eat anything.
I could say to you it is not okay to eat plants at every meal. This is as ridiculous.
You eat what you have to eat, depending on what your body needs, and when it needs it, and how much it needs it. If it needs plants, you'll eat plants; if it needs meat, you'll eat meat. To avoid eating something when your body needs it, because you blindly trust someone else's opinions without really knowing why they have such opinions... Now this is pointless hurting of self. Unless for some reason you need this pain.

It can take many years to realise some foodstuffs or the poisons within are effecting you, I think something like mercury can take up to thirty years.

Depends on awareness. If one has nearly no awareness regarding something that hurts, then might be that never realizes it. So many examples to give of people who don't die of old age, but die of sickness and disease.
Also needs self-sensitivity and self-perception. Most don't have these active in themselves, or far too little.

Originally Posted by Podshell

Seeing as most people like the taste of meat then the ulterior motive would be to find any excuse to eat it, not the other way round!!

This is absolutely ridiculous!
It is the exact same as saying, "Just because you like the taste of bananas, your ulterior motive is to find any excuse to eat them."

Please try to think things through before saying them.

Because we have disrupted the planets ecosystem does that mean then we HAVE to eat the animals or fight those who are messing it up, why pick on the innocent animals?

???
Humans have eaten animals for as long as we have existed, as did our partial ancestors, and as have many other animals on this planet. Are you saying the planet's ecosystem has always been disrupted? You see... this is one exact thing I referred to when I mentioned how most meat-avoiders behave.

This, eating meat, has absolutely nothing to do with disrupted planet's ecosystem. It has absolutely everything to do with what our bodies need and what they cannot get in the needed quantities if not for eating meat.

This is where you have to forget the meat-industry completely, because it is a topic and area completely on its own. And look at what our bodies need and have needed, and what omnivorous and carnivorous animals need and have needed. It is obvious. If you don't see it, then try to ask yourself, "why is obvious to you not obvious?" And try to answer it to yourself.

You think the plants, vegetables, seeds, you eat are not innocent? You kill each day just as does every other living human on this planet, be it plants, or animals, or micro-organisms. You kill every day. This is absolute reality. Face it and accept it, or deny it and suffer until karma does its job.

You talk about lies, but condone killing of fellow creatures!

Plants are also fellow creatures.
It's not about condoning, it's about what our bodies need.

That is how some people come to form a belief but itis not based on a full fund of knowledge.

???
What do you mean by "full fund of knowledge"?

I have repeatedly shown that I know about health and diet much better than you. You may say as you like, but doesn't mean it's true, especially if you don't know better than the one you're saying it to.

Yes I agree, but the people who are causing damage to our food chain they cannot see this.

There are those who give orders and who design systems.

There are those who are indoctrinated and brainwashed and thus blindly and ignorantly follow orders and systems.

There are those who see some issues, but don't really do anything about it. Because they don't really have any idea how to make things better so that they would remain better.

Then there are those who would do everything about it and know exactly what must be done. But can't because there are too few of them, and other issues. They'd be crushed if they acted too soon, too early. So they do what little they can, step by step raising frequencies as best they can. To do this little, most important is to keep themselves high and take themselves higher. So they would know exactly how to get higher, what to suggest to others who are ready to listen and raise themselves.

Avoiding eating meat, on this planet, in these times, in these bodies, does not get one higher. Avoiding what the the body needs severely limits the road to higher, and eventually blocks it outright. There are extremely few exceptions to this.

Originally Posted by Podshell

I think some things should be cooked though even only slightly, especially if digestion is not up to it.

Considering cooking always destroys nutrients and always creates toxins, nothing should ever be cooked, not even slightly. If best health possible is a goal.
Digestion is always up to it. But problems can occur if the specific food item is not for the individual, or there is damage caused by previous wrong dieting or by something else.

One thing I remember when going raw was that in the beginning (for about one month) I felt my own stomach acid... Raw foods need stronger stomach acid, but as a result they also digest faster, and as another result whatever harmful organisms should come with the food, they are far less likely to survive the stronger stomach acid. It takes some time for the stomach to adjust.
If having eaten a cooked diet for a long time, the stomach is weaker, as it doesn't need the resilience that is required for the stronger stomach acid. (In truth it's the other way around, cooked foods require weaker stomach acid. And the "stronger" one is the correct one.)

I know you are not keen on listening to experts but I read Dr Mercolas articles sometimes and they tally with much of what you believe, he is quite good, but advocates meat eating so I do not think he realises the bigger picture regards karma and the soul being the important part not the body

You apparently don't know well enough what karma is. It is about learning lessons, one way or another. Even if someone does something bad, the lesson that comes from it does not have to be learned in a way that something, or the same thing, happens back to the person. There are more ways than one to achieve the same effect.
Karma represents opportunities. Denying and avoiding something is not using the opportunities. But there will come new ones for as long as you haven't learned from it. Repeatedly till you get it right, till you learn from it.

The soul is just as important as is the body. If you neglect your physical body you make a severe disservice to your soul and spirit. All bodies are connected, whole. Making a disservice to one is making a disservice to all.

Of course Mercola does not realize the big picture, but neither do you. He neglects one side, you neglect another. But neither are there two sides, there're more. How about taking it all as a whole, to as big an extent you are aware? You have mentioned the "whole" before, I would suggest you take you own advice on this, and stop avoiding eating meat. Thus stopping doing harm do your physical body and through physical body to your other bodies.

There might be some types of meat you can't do well on, but not all of them.
If something causes you discomfort, then the solution is not ditching that something. First you have to identify why it causes discomfort, and then, if it really is something specifically about the food item that causes it, and not something else, then you ditch it.

For example, something I know from myself. I once ate garlic. It caused issues in the stomach. Gases, inflammation, etc. So I stopped eating it. Later I found out that it wasn't garlic that caused it, but it was the candida/yeast/parasite die-off and the resulting gases, and toxins the parasitic organisms kept in them. They died, they broke apart, they released toxins, that caused gases and inflammation. Garlic wasn't the culprit, garlic was doing very much good. And now, no problem eating garlic. In fact, since I now know and have seen on myself that it kills candida/yeast, I specifically eat it often.
Same can be with any food item. Just because you eat something and notice some negative effects does not immediately mean that the eaten caused it.
Same way that sometimes the same food item might cause issues because at that time your body does not need it.
Sometimes I really like honey and it makes me feel much better. Other times I don't even want to see it.
Same way sometimes I eat eggs and they make me feel so good, other times I don't even want to see any.
Etc.

***********
Having conversed some with you, I can see some damage you've caused yourself by avoiding eating meat and the corresponding dogma. Nor have you really much anything to say... As I do most of the "talking" and explaining... You are not one of those who can do well by avoiding eating meat. Nor have you enough awareness regarding all this to make such certain conclusion that you have made. Essentially, blind trust is what you have.
Your body is not built to sustain and work avoiding meat.
Given the human body, avoiding eating meat is severely limiting and/or hindering oneself.

I suggest you try to correct the mistake, or keep going till karma will correct it for you one way or another, in this life or another. The lesson itself is not that of eating meat, it's the awareness and truth behind eating meat or not and why and when it is relevant and necessary or not.
A way, the easiest way, given the human body, is by eating meat and noticing changes. Experimenting in different ways, with different factors, acquiring the "patterns", and learning from it. This over many months, perhaps even years if necessary.

[Podshell]

The alkalinity/acidity that was mentioned was not about the stomach and gut. In the stomach and gut yes, if things are far too alkaline or too acidic, then digestion is disrupted.

You brought that up as if the acid would deal with the problems.

Tablets and pills are made of substances that are very hard to break apart by stomach acids, by design. The medical industry does not want healthy people, because if people were healthy there could be no medical industry. Not to mention no one is supposed to eat those things anyway...

Of course but it is an indiication that that some peoples stomachs cannot digest as well as others.

As I've said before, there are short-term effects, and long-term effects. If you make up your mind based on short-term effects, you'll never see the long-term effects for what they truly are.

No you do, you have experimented for twenty months on that particular diet, on mine it has been about fifteen yrs plus even periods before that.

If you start trusting your source, as you apparently have, based on short term effects... Rash and hasty decisions are not always right.
And also, do your sources include everything relevant? Of course not. I know this from personal experience. Many sources, one saying one, another saying another. So what's the truth then? Have to compare and think, and experiment if necessary, to see what and how much of either is right and wrong. And form your own picture of the whole, not give blind trust to any source. Make your own source, inside yourself, that's always developing as you find out more. It's what I do...

How do you know the source is based on short term effects? some are based on many peoples observations and years of trial and error.


Imagine meeting your future self who has spent years on a certain diet don't you think you may have something to say, well there will be people out there who have done what you are doing for much longer.

It is not bad behavior to kill for food if you need the food.
It is bad to kill for food if you don't need the food.

Well yes but if you had to do it yourself would you? Is it a cop out to get someone else to kill the animal? For instance if I lived on an island farm I would protect the cows as they give milk which is very nutritious and many products can be made from it, they also provide manure for fertiliser and energy, the males would also provide transport and they could digest the foodstuffs I am incapeable of. So it would be unwise to kill these creatures, I would live off the milk products and what I could grow, if I got desperate I could fish and then at a last resort start killing the animals on the island.

How much do they advertise cookies and candies and such things? A lot... That all is heavily processed plants, as a result of the processing all poisonous, with extra added toxins. Essentially the same goes about meat industry meat; same thing, different source.

Yes more addictive poisons does not mean the over advertising of meat is right.

It's not that they advertise eating meat. It's the kind of meat they advertise eating. Meat full of toxins and other bad things - this is the reason it is advertised.
They also advertise eating plants full of toxins. Toxins. The reason why.

It goes both ways. Not just one way.

I think you are looking at it like vegetarians v meat eaters , I am looking at suffering which covers both...the people eating the stuff and the people and animals producing the stuff...I wouldn't like to be a factory chicken or a sugar plantation worker, given a choice though I would prefer the latter.

It is okay to eat meat at every meal. I do... Two meals a day, each time eggs, or fish, or meat, or fat, or organs. Almost each meal also plant stuff. Sometimes I skip a whole meal, don't eat anything.
I could say to you it is not okay to eat plants at every meal. This is as ridiculous.

But that does not tally with our natural diet, ancient peoples did not eat meat at every meal, tribal people don't...and I can bet over all inuits do not kill as many animals as we do and they are doing it to survive.

You eat what you have to eat, depending on what your body needs, and when it needs it, and how much it needs it. If it needs plants, you'll eat plants; if it needs meat, you'll eat meat. To avoid eating something when your body needs it, because you blindly trust someone else's opinions without really knowing why they have such opinions... Now this is pointless hurting of self. Unless for some reason you need this pain.

Yes but you are trusting your own opinions, I cant think of a similar creature like us that needs so much meat, I cannot even think of a carnivore that needs such an high amount of meat, watching a wildlife programme I recall the commentator saying great whites need a seal every three months to get by on (will have to do a search to confirm that when I get time)

It is the exact same as saying, "Just because you like the taste of bananas, your ulterior motive is to find any excuse to eat them."

Please try to think things through before saying them.

No it isn't as the banana plant does not die, the banana fruit is meant to be picked and eaten, that is not an opinion it is a fact.

Humans have eaten animals for as long as we have existed, as did our partial ancestors, and as have many other animals on this planet. Are you saying the planet's ecosystem has always been disrupted? You see... this is one exact thing I referred to when I mentioned how most meat-avoiders behave.

You do not know that we have eaten meat for as long as we have existed and no I don't think the eco-system has been disrupted as much as today..what I am talking about is a reason for human beings eating more meat, not the animals that already are natural meat eaters eating it.

This, eating meat, has absolutely nothing to do with disrupted planet's ecosystem. It has absolutely everything to do with what our bodies need and what they cannot get in the needed quantities if not for eating meat.

Well it has as the vegetation we grow has become adulterated and less nutritious so some turn to eating meat or more of it.

This is where you have to forget the meat-industry completely, because it is a topic and area completely on its own. And look at what our bodies need and have needed, and what omnivorous and carnivorous animals need and have needed. It is obvious. If you don't see it, then try to ask yourself, "why is obvious to you not obvious?" And try to answer it to yourself.

The advertising by the meat industry brainwashes people into believing they need more meat than they actually do, they sell it for enjoyment rather than need

You think the plants, vegetables, seeds, you eat are not innocent? You kill each day just as does every other living human on this planet, be it plants, or animals, or micro-organisms. You kill every day. This is absolute reality. Face it and accept it, or deny it and suffer until karma does its job.

not everone does, and if micro-organisms are eaten some are happy in the gut and survive, the ones that die we can say that the deaths are accidental not deliberate as we have to eat something to survive.

Plants are also fellow creatures.
It's not about condoning, it's about what our bodies need.

With a much less developed nervous system, I don't think anyone would choose to kill a fellow animal as opposed to picking an apple or two.

What do you mean by "full fund of knowledge"?

You or I do not have a ful fund of knowledge but there are obviously bigger funds out there

I have repeatedly shown that I know about health and diet much better than you. You may say as you like, but doesn't mean it's true, especially if you don't know better than the one you're saying it to.

Yes you said I should do some research, I didn't level that silly remark at you, I am always researching , I just see yours as different from mine and something that others could help you with.