Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Love & Relationships -Friends and Family

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 29-12-2016, 08:43 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
Master
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,383
 
besides

'vengeance is mine' saith the lord
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 29-12-2016, 09:52 AM
Lorelyen
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Really!
I agree w/Shaun ...

What a scarey thought to enter into a relationship w/an opening caring heart only to find you've found someone who will target you w/vengeance if doesn't work out ...
Thinking about it sends shivers up & down my spine ...

As Confucious says, "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves" ...
Look, you have to approach it with a mature mind, a rightmindedness. Obviously you don't go into a relationship expecting to find anything in particular except a hope for mutual liking. It is something to think about though. One in every so-many propositions comes with trouble.

As you engage with people you learn to anticipate trouble, mind-games, contention and so on and hopefully can nip it in the bud. It isn't so rare that vengeance turns into something nasty. The news is laden with crimes of passion. The Court notices are full of divorce wrangles. People need to feel better. Whether their actions are justified isn't for me to judge.

It's a personal thing.

I see you quoted something from psychology today. What do you think of psychologists?
She started by stating a factoid so I had to stop there. I doubt I'd see the word "justice" in the whole article.
.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 29-12-2016, 10:24 AM
FairyCrystal FairyCrystal is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,062
  FairyCrystal's Avatar
Revenge? Incredibly immature... Normal, healthy adult people learn to deal with pain and sorrow in life. It's part of living. When you know you cannot handle a breakup, you may be better of staying single. Learn to deal with loss and pain, grow as an individual so you can stand on your own two feet, even when life gets hard for a bit.
Holding someone else responsible for your happiness is not right, nor healthy, for neither party.

If you think it's right, spiritual even, think about someone doing this to you when you have done nothing wrong other than not loving that person as a partner anymore. How right is it to be treated that way?
It's acting out from a hurt ego, not from the heart. That's not spiritual, that's nasty, and immature. An indication of someone who cannot handle life.
The only thing spiritual about it is that it may be part of their path to learn to grow up.

It's part of western culture to have the freedom to enter and leave relationships at will. We should treasure that freedom, not everyone has it.
It does come with the responsibility to be able to handle that freedom.
Always a nice contradiction: everyone wants freedom, yet most cannot handle it.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 29-12-2016, 03:14 PM
Lorelyen
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FairyCrystal
Revenge? Incredibly immature... Normal, healthy adult people learn to deal with pain and sorrow in life. It's part of living. When you know you cannot handle a breakup, you may be better of staying single. Learn to deal with loss and pain, grow as an individual so you can stand on your own two feet, even when life gets hard for a bit.
Holding someone else responsible for your happiness is not right, nor healthy, for neither party.

If you think it's right, spiritual even, think about someone doing this to you when you have done nothing wrong other than not loving that person as a partner anymore. How right is it to be treated that way?
It's acting out from a hurt ego, not from the heart. That's not spiritual, that's nasty, and immature. An indication of someone who cannot handle life.
The only thing spiritual about it is that it may be part of their path to learn to grow up.

How drole....

If you're still equating ego with nasty and immature I pity those in your life...
But that's your business not mine. It isn't in my nature to be insulting, so I won't tell you what I think of your rant.

Let's leave it at that, shall we?



PS post # 4444. It's a si-i-ignnn!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 29-12-2016, 03:39 PM
TheGlow TheGlow is offline
Master
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: outside the illusion
Posts: 1,493
  TheGlow's Avatar
Sometimes I can't believe what gets posted as spiritual. Wanting to hurt another or have them suffer is not a sign of spiritual truth it's ego lashing out. If anything after having a relationship end if one wanted revenge that would be the ultimate sign the break up was a good thing. The one who left made the right decision.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 29-12-2016, 03:45 PM
TheGlow TheGlow is offline
Master
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: outside the illusion
Posts: 1,493
  TheGlow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FairyCrystal
Revenge? Incredibly immature... Normal, healthy adult people learn to deal with pain and sorrow in life. It's part of living. When you know you cannot handle a breakup, you may be better of staying single. Learn to deal with loss and pain, grow as an individual so you can stand on your own two feet, even when life gets hard for a bit.
Holding someone else responsible for your happiness is not right, nor healthy, for neither party.

If you think it's right, spiritual even, think about someone doing this to you when you have done nothing wrong other than not loving that person as a partner anymore. How right is it to be treated that way?
It's acting out from a hurt ego, not from the heart. That's not spiritual, that's nasty, and immature. An indication of someone who cannot handle life.
The only thing spiritual about it is that it may be part of their path to learn to grow up.

It's part of western culture to have the freedom to enter and leave relationships at will. We should treasure that freedom, not everyone has it.
It does come with the responsibility to be able to handle that freedom.
Always a nice contradiction: everyone wants freedom, yet most cannot handle it.
That's a really good point about freedom and not being able to handle it.
freedom to love is a huge gift and it comes with the responsibility of learning to love even in loss instead of covering it with hate. Not everything no matter how beautiful is meant to last.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 29-12-2016, 03:55 PM
Really! Really! is offline
Suspended
Guide
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 536
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyen
[/b][/i]Look, you have to approach it with a mature mind, a rightmindedness.[/b][/i] Obviously you don't go into a relationship expecting to find anything in particular except a hope for mutual liking. It is something to think about though. One in every so-many propositions comes with trouble.

I see you quoted something from psychology today. What do you think of psychologists?
She started by stating a factoid so I had to stop there. I doubt I'd see the word "justice" in the whole article.
.

I love psychology - I've spent my entire life studying it, educated in it & worked in the field including the probation & parole divisions of law enforcement in CA & NM ...
One of my jobs was to help these people w/anger management in teaching strategies to cope w/revenge, life problems & conflict issues that resulted in serving either jail or prison time as well as continually living a very unhappy life ...
At almost 59, I believe I'm quite mature. I, also, believe I have sufficient life, education & work experience to make good solid judgements ...
Therefore, I believe a person has to stop justifying &/or choosing anti-social behaviors to mature properly, to better themself, to make better choices as well as become enlightened spiritually ...

Back to the topic ...
Please share why you believe revenge is the solution to a painful/ego bruising break up?

BTW - starting off a conversation with "Look, you have to ...." is offensive & condescending ...
I'm not a doormat ...
I would appreciative keeping this in mind when responding --- thank you ...
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 29-12-2016, 04:08 PM
Lorelyen
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGlow
Sometimes I can't believe what gets posted as spiritual. Wanting to hurt another or have them suffer is not a sign of spiritual truth it's ego lashing out. If anything after having a relationship end if one wanted revenge that would be the ultimate sign the break up was a good thing. The one who left made the right decision.

Yes but you see you make too many old assumptions which is hardly spiritual. "Assuming" is just your projection - if you want to use the term as you do, ego lashing out. Problem is in western culture relationships follow certain conventions. They change in response to many related social changes. Without them (and that's a way I once loved to live) you have all kinds of problems unless you're careful. Of course one wants to end a relationship if there's the least sign of threat or control.

That still doesn't deal with divorce and separation which can be quite acrimonious. Blame the verbal marriage contract if you will. Read a few Court proceedings and you'll find plenty of avenging. (I'm no lawyer, I'll point out, but with a family friend in divorce law we sometimes get sight of information.) However you can often follow celeb cases in the press.)

It's how it is. Real life. We aren't all saints or saintes. To me, ego is a social process, not a static front-end of one's persona. It's the boundary spanner (as in "span" not "wrench") that lets people get through their daily lives here on Earth; interact with others, etc.

...
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 29-12-2016, 05:12 PM
Lorelyen
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Really!
I love psychology - I've spent my entire life studying it, educated in it & worked in the field including the probation & parole divisions of law enforcement in CA & NM ...
My regard for psychology is probably well-known here and, not to cloud the discussion I won't repeat except my concern that it stereotypes - I don't think anyone would dispute that. (Clinical psychoanalysis is perhaps a different story); and it can only feasibly deal with social norms that arise from statistics.

Quote:
One of my jobs was to help these people w/anger management in teaching strategies to cope w/revenge, life problems & conflict issues that resulted in serving either jail or prison time as well as continually living a very unhappy life ...
As one of the calmer breed there were times when anger became necessary...no need to dwell on why just here - and it took quite some effort to work up a "hate-brace" for the purpose in hand. During my studies anger was discussed as a signifier. The stated focus of anger often wasn't the real cause. The easy answer is whatever underlies stress - the problem faced by psychologists is that they can't remove most of those causes, so they can achieve little. Helping to expand an individual's awareness is about it. Ultimately a successful case might rest on developing spirituality: getting free of debt, cast off materialism, blocking the vicissitudes of working life, get into self, do things that inspire you to contentedness. But how many "patients" are able to make inroads since these issues have been institutionalised for life? Answer: not a lot.

(I ditched formal employment a decade ago, work a lot harder but am far happier for it. I have no mortgage, no debt. Lucky? Maybe, and I truly appreciate the reasons allowing that. It is possible with grit and determination for most people to do that.)

Quote:
At almost 59, I believe I'm quite mature. I, also, believe I have sufficient life, education & work experience to make good solid judgements ...
Therefore, I believe a person has to stop justifying &/or choosing anti-social behaviors to mature properly, to better themself, to make better choices as well as become enlightened spiritually ...
I read what you write but the notion is riddled with problems in a multiculti "world" / country. With politicians and their social engineering - not at all successful in my view because they overrule extant norms, the shared values that make society what it is, and thereby force changes in accordance with their values, society is falling apart. Social conditioning is no longer growing up in slowly changing society largely based on traditions and institutions; it's now thwarted by the need to suppress what you find unacceptable about what's forced on you. Sometimes bits of the situation can be rationalised. I think I'm quite good at that. Others will suppress things they don't like. Resentments build up. A residual anger hangs in the air. Whoever thought there'd be legislation against "hate speech?" isn't that likely to push resentment further underground?

So a worthy description of maturity is difficult. I've settled on equanimity.

Well, it's a long story...one that would occupy us for an evening in the pub.

Quote:
Back to the topic ...
Please share why you believe revenge is the solution to a painful/ego bruising break up?
I don't think I said quite that. I was clear that if someone was disadvantaged or deprived of something (e.g, the leaver sullied the reputation of the other for no other reason than the sport of it) then it might restore balance. As a solution to a bruised ego (whatever that is), no - I'm not actually prescribing it as a panacea.
I've used the word "justice" in this thread a few times. If restitution is possible it may assuage the injury. I've also referred to the rancorous fallout of some matrimonial disputes, now extended to civil partnerships. You'll find plenty of vengeful behaviour there among people who would otherwise be considered "mature". And you'll find at least one twinflamist on the boards at the moment so oppressive that you can well understand why the prey is hiding! It's all there. The melee of real life.

Quote:
BTW - starting off a conversation with "Look, you have to ...." is offensive & condescending ...
I'm not a doormat ...
I would appreciative keeping this in mind when responding --- thank you ...
One tries, one has only written words here. I meant no offence and apologies for that. Be consoled that in this thread as a minority viewpoint, I've been talked down to a fair bit. I have two choices: respond as honestly I can or socially desirable. I chose the former. That wasn't the expectation (I suppose) given the original post - peculiar now I think about it.... Why the preach? Was the poster addressing those unable to decide their stance on the issue?

Most interesting, thank you for the response.

...
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 29-12-2016, 05:46 PM
Really! Really! is offline
Suspended
Guide
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 536
 
I agree to disagree w/you ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyn
What do you think of psychologists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyn
My regard for psychology is probably well-known here and, not to cloud the discussion I won't repeat except my concern that it stereotypes - I don't think anyone would dispute that. (Clinical psychoanalysis is perhaps a different story); and it can only feasibly deal with social norms that arise from statistics.


I don't appreciate being slapped on the face from the get go w/passive-agressive tactics. I don't know you, but what I do know is you unfairly lead me in when asking what I thought about psychologists only to use it to immediate dismiss me. I'm not into games ...
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums