Spirituality and Insanity?

[Starman]

There are yogis and poets who write about the incredible cosmic beauty beyond physical appearances.
Some who have glimpsed beyond the physical facade of life literally lost their mind for a period.
It can be said intellectually that the ego, in its’ human form, can not survive this return journey;
at least that is my experience.

I have often wondered about certain mental illnesses and spirituality; whether some who are
labeled with a mental disorder are actually having a spiritual experience that does not coherently
translate into everyday human concepts.

When I first started quieting my mind and meditating on inner silence, I went through a period where
I had to learn to trust the silence. Those who are not familiar with meditation may think of meditation
as some kind of mind control, but actually quiet meditation where one basks in inner silence,
is freedom from mind.

Everything but quiet meditation is some form of “mind-control,” a form of worldly conditioning, and any
deviation from that conditioning may be seen as deviant thinking or deviant behavior, etc., to society at-large.
Hearing voices, seeing visions, or even multiple personalities are more acceptable today as possible
inter or intra dimensional expressions.

In past centuries people with legitimate mental disorders were thought to be possessed by demonic forces, etc.
Interesting how society was so quick to attribute spiritual negativity to mental illness but still does not fully
embrace the positive aspects of spiritual features in what may have been labeled a mental illness.
There are lots of people who have learned how to use their obsessive-compulsive behavior for good,
as well as other so-called mental disorders.

Of course all of this is dependent on an individuals ability to adequately function. Stephen Hawking’s comes
to mind, and the contributions he has made in spite of not having the use of his arms and legs. A person
can be restrained physically or mentally by illness or injury and still make a significant contribution.

It is only an illness if it does not render any vitality. Notwithstanding pain management and a host
of other infractions which accompany certain mental illnesses. I am old enough to remember when
the mainstream professional counseling community did not believe in such disorders as ptsd or
codependency, etc. and these disorders were labeled and rationalized as something else. How we view
mental illness is an ongoing evolutionary process. But while we do codify mental illness we will never
be able to completely codify spirituality.

A large portion of mental illness is generated by the society in which a person may live, toxic
or stressful social norms, etc., but the largest portion has to do with our formative years.
A lot of people spend most of their adult life coming to terms with certain adverse conditioning
they may have acquired from their younger years. Conditioning which might at some time
warrant mental health intervention. The only reason why a subjective experience is not given
the same validity as an objective experience is because humanity needs others to validate what we
call “experience,” Which may not be readily available when the experience is subjective.

[Miss Hepburn]

Yes, one person in a mental institution is saying, "I'm
George Washington."
The saint is saying, "I know, so am I."

[lemex]

1, There are yogis and poets who write about the incredible cosmic beauty beyond physical appearances. Some who have glimpsed beyond the physical facade of life literally lost their mind for a period.

2. A large portion of mental illness is generated by the society in which a person may live, toxic or stressful social norms, etc., but the largest portion has to do with our formative years.

Wow, so much said here. Amazing, only because I see it...lol.

Yogis, poets, and Masters and this if it can happen to such, trained as they are, imagine the average person who begins to see. A person in such an awakened state sees more (everything in them), all the information in them is the universe, just like we are. They should have taken greater care! They did not respect knowledge. Here I am referring to the subconscious. What protects us, logic. One does not want to awaken too quickly but more quietly such as that tempered by mediation. Open the gate slowly and take a peek imo. You see I like to bring it back to our level. Each person has total knowledge in them, so much that it can represent chaos. I have never said this but if you think about consciousness it controls chaos in what you think about when one see inside to all the information that is there. Consciousness is not the commutator, you are. This can be felt, that which I call the experience of largeness. Within is a universe of thought completely untapped. The comparison so obvious between state of chaos and mediation made obviously provides the quieting getting a handle of yourself, your thoughts.

I have also mentions that I see the 2nd idea to. For those who can't image this and it is sad that what can be said that growing up in a environment can be likened to contribute to PTDS. The only reason I mention this is we may believe it happens to only adults and it is only because I know of someone with the affliction that I even am able to see it. I saw in their PTDS mine and a certain quality of similarity there. And if correct, yes society norms. Cause and effect all through learning. Somethings yes, life does seem like a war zone. Just wanted to put this in a different format, experience. You must have worked with a lot of people imo to see this.

Cause and effect we don't even think possible. Totally awesome post for me. Was wonder any fear about this as a possibility? I may have the same flaw, I think I know myself.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Yes, one person in a mental institution is saying, "I'm
George Washington."
The saint is saying, "I know, so am I."

I don't know Miss H. I am me, I know I am not someone else though I am aware even they may have had the same thoughts I do now. No person has ever had thought something someone else has not thought, the first thought in someone else. No thought is brand new. I am taken by something I believed for a while and wrote about, later to find Aristotle had the same idea and wrote about. In fact he was wrong about part of it as modern science has enlighten us to a few facts. I am not Aristotle but at time thought like them, we all do. I often wonder if he had the benefits of knowing today what he did not know then what would he say today. I guess that's up to us. I cannot comprehend feeling wise what you said other then yes, I say the same thing other's have and so it's not so special really. I can't image losing myself.

[Starman]

Originally Posted by lemex

Wow, so much said here. Amazing, only because I see it...lol.

Yogis, poets, and Masters and this if it can happen to such, trained as they are, imagine the average person who begins to see. A person in such an awakened state sees more (everything in them), all the information in them is the universe, just like we are. They should have taken greater care! They did not respect knowledge. Here I am referring to the subconscious. What protects us, logic. One does not want to awaken too quickly but more quietly such as that tempered by mediation. Open the gate slowly and take a peek imo. You see I like to bring it back to our level. Each person has total knowledge in them, so much that it can represent chaos. I have never said this but if you think about consciousness it controls chaos in what you think about when one see inside to all the information that is there. Consciousness is not the commutator, you are. This can be felt, that which I call the experience of largeness. Within is a universe of thought completely untapped. The comparison so obvious between state of chaos and mediation made obviously provides the quieting getting a handle of yourself, your thoughts.

I have also mentions that I see the 2nd idea to. For those who can't image this and it is sad that what can be said that growing up in a environment can be likened to contribute to PTDS. The only reason I mention this is we may believe it happens to only adults and it is only because I know of someone with the affliction that I even am able to see it. I saw in their PTDS mine and a certain quality of similarity there. And if correct, yes society norms. Cause and effect all through learning. Somethings yes, life does seem like a war zone. Just wanted to put this in a different format, experience. You must have worked with a lot of people imo to see this.

Cause and effect we don't even think possible. Totally awesome post for me. Was wonder any fear about this as a possibility? I may have the same flaw, I think I know myself.

A very interesting response.

The “I” that thinks and believes it knows is a facade. I had my socially acceptable way of
expressing myself and then I had this experience where I was taken out of my body and flung
into the vastness of outer space, among the planets and the stars. It left me awestruck and
there was no way that I could openly share this without drawing attention to the absurdities
of remaining in the confines of the status quo.

In the aftermath of that experience it was difficult for me to see the wall, or floor for that matter,
as solid. I knew that we exist every moment of our lives in the midst of infinity. Often what we
call an “awakened” state is just another level of sleeping; as there are numerous layers to the illusion,
and yet a very thin imaginary veil which separates us from our deeper being.
That which we call consciousness” is not really consciousness; no more than “the Tao which can be told is
not the eternal Tao.”

People who thought this way used to be burned to a steak or forced to do some sort of penance.
That we have such an incredibly intimate connection with our source is a blessing. That our source
is unfathomable love and intoxicating bliss is a blessing. What if we came from a source which was repulsive?
But our source is anything but that! When you embrace the spiritual world, or spiritual nature of the world,
you travel a path which becomes contrary to mainstream societal culture.

I think a lot of people want “spirituality” but they want it to be nice and neat. We are all interpreting the very
same experience in lots of different ways. So we have labels for everything and even those things for which we
have no label, we give them the label of “phenomena.” The Tao says that “nothing in the universe is what
we call it here on Earth.” Experience is the ultimate teacher.

But humanity generally does not like anything which it can not control. A large part of organized religion deals
with social control. The need for a middleman between me and God! People are just now realizing that you
do not have to belong to a religion in order to be fully embraced by the source of all. Material wealth is
about how much you can hold on to and spiritual wealth is about how much you can let go of; liberation
to the extent of letting go of your self.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Starman

A very interesting response.

The “I” that thinks and believes it knows is a facade. I had my socially acceptable way of
expressing myself and then I had this experience where I was taken out of my body and flung
into the vastness of outer space, among the planets and the stars. It left me awestruck and
there was no way that I could openly share this without drawing attention to the absurdities
of remaining in the confines of the status quo.

In the aftermath of that experience it was difficult for me to see the wall, or floor for that matter,
as solid. I knew that we exist every moment of our lives in the midst of infinity. Often what we
call an “awakened” state is just another level of sleeping; as there are numerous layers to the illusion,
and yet a very thin imaginary veil which separates us from our deeper being.
That which we call consciousness” is not really consciousness; no more than “the Tao which can be told is
not the eternal Tao.”

People who thought this way used to be burned to a steak or forced to do some sort of penance.
That we have such an incredibly intimate connection with our source is a blessing. That our source
is unfathomable love and intoxicating bliss is a blessing. What if we came from a source which was repulsive?
But our source is anything but that! When you embrace the spiritual world, or spiritual nature of the world,
you travel a path which becomes contrary to mainstream societal culture.

I think a lot of people want “spirituality” but they want it to be nice and neat. We are all interpreting the very
same experience in lots of different ways. So we have labels for everything and even those things for which we
have no label, we give them the label of “phenomena.” The Tao says that “nothing in the universe is what
we call it here on Earth.” Experience is the ultimate teacher.

But humanity generally does not like anything which it can not control. A large part of organized religion deals
with social control. The need for a middleman between me and God! People are just now realizing that you
do not have to belong to a religion in order to be fully embraced by the source of all. Material wealth is
about how much you can hold on to and spiritual wealth is about how much you can let go of; liberation
to the extent of letting go of your self.

when I read the first post my first thought was 'return to childhood'. I was going to answer but was getting silly so I didn't... this post says the same thing 'return to childhood' though. It is very loud

[vespa68]

Insanity means the person does not know who is he in the deep sense. They cannot cope with the stress of their reality. They completely disconnect themselves.They don't see any truth but rather illusions. In real spirituality as in an awakening it is the opposite. The person finds who they truly are which can only be at the heart level. This leads them to the highest truth of their reality.

[Starman]

Originally Posted by vespa68

Insanity means the person does not know who is he in the deep sense. They cannot cope with the stress of their reality. They completely disconnect themselves.They don't see any truth but rather illusions. In real spirituality as in an awakening it is the opposite. The person finds who they truly are which can only be at the heart level. This leads them to the highest truth of their reality.

Or maybe they have seen too much truth. Commonly people who are considered seriously mentally ill are referred to as "insane,"
and their insanity may be peering into the spiritual world and finding it in-congruent with everyday life. The cliche about insanity
is that it is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Spirituality has a way of bursting our bubbles or laying to waste our concepts. A person who is labeled insane may not be
disconnected rather they may be too connected, or just disconnected from every day human life. Just because a person
says "they know who they are" does not mean they really know who they are.

Generally metal health interventions revolve around whether a person is a danger to themselves or others. An there are many
who feel like the way a person thinks can be dangerous, and people are detained because of thoughts they have expressed, even though
those thoughts may not be a danger to themselves or others. Society often find things which they don't understand threatening.

[Govind]

There is a fine line between spirituality and insanity.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.
Spirituality is a broad concept, It includes a sense of connection to something bigger than ourselves, and it typically involves a search for meaning in life.
Spirituality means something different to everyone and it does not mean any particular practice.

[vespa68]

I don't care for the word spirituality, it means nothing. I am talking about an awakening. Someone who does the inner work by facing their negative emotions,this opens their heart and the person knows who they are in a deep sense past the illusions. A higher truth opens up to them, they open up their paranormal abilities. This is the exact opposite of an insane person who has not done any inner work and have no idea who they are at all. They don't see any truth.