Science and Spirituality successfully meet: the work of physicist Tom Campbell

Originally Posted by stardustpilgrim

Just to be clear, Tom Campbell assumes two axioms. Originally, consciousness exists (defined as dim consciousness, IOW, not an omniscient God), and evolution. Dim consciousness evolves into higher and more complex forms of consciousness.

Campbell says everything else can be derived from accepting these two premises.

I'll have to finish the book before giving up on originating SOI (Supreme Ordering Intelligence :-).

sdp

Pilgrim,
Morpheus' comment is meaningful IMO. Campbell assumes two things: (1.) consciousness exists, and (2.) the "fundamental process" (evolution). In his model, #1- consciousness- "starts" as AUO (Absolute Unbounded Oneness which is yet high entropy consciousness) and "develops" toward AUM (Absolute Unbounded Manifold which is lower entropy consciousness)- but this is NOT done in linear PMR time as we understand it. My understanding is, for us here right now, this discussion is more conceptual than literal, since we are bound by linear time and AUM in its "development" is not. I actually had a chance to speak with Campbell and asked the question: how can AUO develop into something else (in sequence) if AUO hadn't developed time yet? His answer was something like, "primordial time" exists/ existed for AUO as a fundamental property of conscious awareness, and linear PMR time (as we know it) was a virtual creation within it. To this end, in my own sense, I don't think this conflicts with the Supreme Ordering Intelligence idea- it seems to me that AUM certainly fits that description.

Also to be clear, in Tom's model AUM is definitely what we could consider as omniscient.

Great discussion! :)

Originally Posted by Aerin328

Pilgrim,
Morpheus' comment is meaningful IMO. Campbell assumes two things: (1.) consciousness exists, and (2.) the "fundamental process" (evolution). In his model, #1- consciousness- "starts" as AUO (Absolute Unbounded Oneness which is yet high entropy consciousness) and "develops" toward AUM (Absolute Unbounded Manifold which is lower entropy consciousness)- but this is NOT done in linear PMR time as we understand it. My understanding is, for us here right now, this discussion is more conceptual than literal, since we are bound by linear time and AUM in its "development" is not. I actually had a chance to speak with Campbell and asked the question: how can AUO develop into something else (in sequence) if AUO hadn't developed time yet? His answer was something like, "primordial time" exists/ existed for AUO as a fundamental property of conscious awareness, and linear PMR time (as we know it) was a virtual creation within it. To this end, in my own sense, I don't think this conflicts with the Supreme Ordering Intelligence idea- it seems to me that AUM certainly fits that description.

Also to be clear, in Tom's model AUM is definitely what we could consider as omniscient.

Great discussion! :)

Hey Aerin328.......I'm going all the way to the beginning. For me, SOI exists before anything else, originates everything, is not dim consciousness but is completely Self-Aware.

Tom Campbell says the consciousness from which everything evolves is dim consciousness. I presume his view is to keep everything scientifically oriented. I'll reserve final judgment until I finish the book. Right now we just disagree (I disagree with Tom), dim consciousness does not equal SOI. I will comment a little more in response to Morpheus.

Time is relative to any particular world, subjective. Time arises when any actions occurs, I would say the definition of time is movement from here to there (simply put). Time is that which is necessary to move from here to there. No movement, no time. I think the movie Inception gives a fair indication of relative time in different worlds. The ability to move backwards or forwards in time would be an indication of non-linear time, it seems. I don't know how that possibility is resolved with the direction of time given by entropy. One solution is only consciousness can move to past or future, IOW, you can't alter the materiality of the past, you can only observe. This gets you out of the grandfather paradox.

sdp

Originally Posted by Morpheus

-Pilgrim, however, Evolution takes place in something which is called illusory today. "Space/Time".

Regarding the many NDE accounts available today, I would hardly call what is original, "Light" and, "source", "Dim".

God is Truth.
"In Whom we live, and move, and have our being."

On the contrary, it is we in this "meat suit" and organic form, within illusory "Space/Time"... which is limited, and constrained.

Campbell says no human can ever reach originating dim consciousness. So the "Light" and "Source" experienced is the result of the evolution of consciousness.

Illusory has to be defined.

God of the Bible as Creator would not fit within Tom Campbell's paradigm, as far as I've read (pg 420).

sdp

Originally Posted by Aerin328

Pilgrim,
Morpheus' comment is meaningful IMO. Campbell assumes two things: (1.) consciousness exists, and (2.) the "fundamental process" (evolution). In his model, #1- consciousness- "starts" as AUO (Absolute Unbounded Oneness which is yet high entropy consciousness) and "develops" toward AUM (Absolute Unbounded Manifold which is lower entropy consciousness)- but this is NOT done in linear PMR time as we understand it. My understanding is, for us here right now, this discussion is more conceptual than literal, since we are bound by linear time and AUM in its "development" is not. I actually had a chance to speak with Campbell and asked the question: how can AUO develop into something else (in sequence) if AUO hadn't developed time yet? His answer was something like, "primordial time" exists/ existed for AUO as a fundamental property of conscious awareness, and linear PMR time (as we know it) was a virtual creation within it. To this end, in my own sense, I don't think this conflicts with the Supreme Ordering Intelligence idea- it seems to me that AUM certainly fits that description.

Also to be clear, in Tom's model AUM is definitely what we could consider as omniscient.

Great discussion! :)

I went back and double-checked myself to see if I posted correctly earlier today concerning originating consciousness. I did. I will be brief, short quotes, page numbers.

1st assumption: The Fundamental Process of evolution.
2nd assumption: One Source is simply consciousness--primordial consciousness. page 181

I did not say that this primordial consciousness was all knowing, omniscient, self-aware, or even vaguely intelligent--it is not. .......Absolute Unbounded Oneness (AUO) is not infinite. Nor is it absolute, unbounded, or oneness-but only appears to be an infinite absolute oneness from a limited point of view within PMR. Although the name Absolute Unbounded Oneness is a descriptive misnomer, I use it bla, bla, bla....... page 190

.....AUO exists as dim consciousness....... page 198

.....AUO....interact(S) only with itself. page 201

...AUO develops awareness of itself in relation to itself...... Let's call it dim awareness. Dim awareness is fundamentally the same as any awareness, only very limited in its scope and complexity. At its dimmest, dim awareness is simply the potential for awareness. .........How does this Absolute Unbounded Oneness indescribable something acquire dim awareness? ......AUO interacts only with itself (mutation) to gain dim awareness. page 208

Applying the Fundamental Process is natural and intuitively obvious to even extremely dim awareness. .....I will show that AUO meets the requirements for developing awareness and even intelligence. ......Where did AUO come from? ......I truly do not know. page 209

....................

And this is why I said (my [concept of] :-) SOI did not fit with Campbell's framework.

sdp

The problem with TCs TOE is essentially the same as the problem with our own universe.

While Tom explains that this universe is simply one of innumerable matrix realities and he encourages one to be skeptically open-minded when in relation to his TOE, (so that one might see past the barrier the big bang presents) what he seems to fail to see or if indeed he sees it he fails to address it - is that his TOE has a beginning from 'The Void' - this is where the original consciousness (which evolved into AUM) came from.

It seems obvious to me then that his TOE is just a bigger version of the big bang and does not break through the mystery.

'God' (As AUM) was created by something which in itself is a mindless thing.

When asking any adherent of TCs TOE 'what created The Void?', one gets the same argument skeptic materialists use against theists in relation to 'who created god' and that is 'its turtles all the way down' if you go there and require an answer. None is forthcoming.

What Tom Campbell's followers don't understand is that if something has a beginning then it is by that very fact, a simulation. That is pretty much what Tom is saying anyway, except in relation to AUM and The Void.

Yet the existence of this mysterious 'thing' which brought forth self aware consciousness provides the evidence that AUM itself is within a simulation and every simulation it created after the fact is simply expressions of attempts at self discovery. What AUM (and everything conscious within all simulations are) is a parent-less entity within an endless range of simulations - lost to any knowledge pertaining to its own origin which The Void hides from it.

But it not really 'turtles all the way down'. The solution is simple - but rejected by the ardent followers of Tom - specifically Tom's right hand man, Ted Vollers. I assume then that Tom would also reject it.

:)

[wmsm]

Originally Posted by Aerin328

For any who are interested in the convergence of science and spirituality, the following content may be of value to you. This post is a recommendation to look into the work of NASA physicist and consciousness explorer Tom Campbell. Tom Campbell has created a “Theory of Everything” model which explains ALL phenomena from consciousness. You might call his work a “consciousness-based physics model.” Very importantly, this work is both personally and objectively verifiable- you don’t have to take any of it on belief. I am a strict left-brained logic-oriented type and have found Tom Campbell’s work to have the potential to change how the whole world understands science and spirit. All things fit into the model: physics, personal experience, God, Love, psychic phenomenon, out-of-body experiences, etc.

Here is a video link to a 13 hour lecture he gave in Spain (this is hour 1 of 13), I suggest watching the first four hours:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AihD2__gKE

If that’s too long look up “Tom Campbell” on YouTube and watch whatever you like.

His book trilogy is called “My Big TOE” (TOE stands for Theory of Everything). It’s a thick read but well worth it. The entire trilogy is available on Google docs for free, or you can buy the books on Amazon, it's the book with a huge big toe on the front of it.

Tom Campbell's work has been personally transformative and wonderful for me.

Enjoy!

Why is Science trying to inform the already informed spiritual human being that its spiritual existence is explainable as an act of science....only if the science is trying to explain spirit to obtain spirit?

Science does not experiment or theorize unless it is exploring a circumstance for its own self gain.

Having been spiritually, physically, emotionally and psychically attacked by illegal atmospheric spiritual purposeful studies and attack on our cellular/life consciousness condition I can only warn others about this mis-informed spiritual circumstance our life finds itself involved in.

Occult Science, the most evilest of experimentation, for it involves the purposeful attack of our spiritual life, our spiritual being for the purpose of gaining data.

Since Science began to observe, data and experiment on consciousness and our spiritual relationships in life our human DNA has deteriorated, our psychic condition demonstrates it has been caused as a mind relationship involving past life contact of DNA spirit lived memory as a huge population self expression.

If you looked at our psychic condition over 50 years ago, there were very few psychics.

Suddenly after Scientists claim that they themselves contacted past life memory and spirit, demonstrated to have studied the brain wave function of Mediums and psychics in experiments, human kind's own mind condition and psychic circumstance changed.

This situation itself demonstrates that a satellite program to study the psychic condition and spiritual condition was activated secretly and has not only caused a huge upsurge of psychic interaction, but also the same condition that aligns the brain state to a loss of its natural mental and emotional chemical life health.

We have already demonstrate via scientific experimentation that our spiritual consciousness and spiritual health is on the decline due to this observation and experimentation of Scientists.

Why is it that so many spiritual forums were suddenly inundated with Scientific matter, scientific questions and proposals of what spirit quantifies?

[metal68]

I've just ordered The Theory Of Everything by Tom Campbell from Amazon UK, along with Adventures In The Afterlife by William Buhlman and The Quest For Gnosis by Gabriel D Roberts.

I'll add these to my growing list of similar books by Chris Carter, Bob Olsen, Deepak Chopra, Anthony Peake, Graham Hancock, Jonathan Black etc

Ironically, prior to my mum's passing, I wouldn't have entertained even a single page of these. Funny how life's major events can show us a different path. Only thing is it just reinforces that little nagging doubt that says its all just wishful thinking, which of course it is wishful thinking; we do want to continue to exist, to reunite with loved ones. The key word is it JUST wishful thinking??!!!!

[wmsm]

Originally Posted by metal68

I've just ordered The Theory Of Everything by Tom Campbell from Amazon UK, along with Adventures In The Afterlife by William Buhlman and The Quest For Gnosis by Gabriel D Roberts.

I'll add these to my growing list of similar books by Chris Carter, Bob Olsen, Deepak Chopra, Anthony Peake, Graham Hancock, Jonathan Black etc

Ironically, prior to my mum's passing, I wouldn't have entertained even a single page of these. Funny how life's major events can show us a different path. Only thing is it just reinforces that little nagging doubt that says its all just wishful thinking, which of course it is wishful thinking; we do want to continue to exist, to reunite with loved ones. The key word is it JUST wishful thinking??!!!!

Why does anyone of us question who we are or where we came from?

What did spiritual questioning gain.....invention and scientific applications that attacked us, to give us information about spirit and spirit intent.

Therefore in our past history first human life obviously questioned the purpose of itself....gaining spiritual stories.

Then there is the circumstance of spiritual attack, being a completely different life circumstance, for natural life demonstrates that it simply exists to produce the functions for life continuance and life survival.

So we survived as a life condition and gave ourselves stories about how we gained life.

Obviously changing of the life condition to gain self benefit involved personal choices and new spiritual reviews....the conditions involved in personal self gain, status, self power and self dominion...domination tactics.

This also involved building of structures and caused the male consciousness to pursue a building technique for the levitation of stone blocks. Information that his spiritual consciousness resourced from ancient atmospheric image sound records when Earth was attacked by black body radiation that released the crystal fusion and caused the stone face of Planet Earth to lift off.

By using his physical conscious presence, his thoughts about how his spirit was created from out of a light body and the image/sound recordings in the atmosphere he created and documented spiritual science and the application for creating/causing a converSION signal in the atmosphere to lift stone by Temple/Pyramid applications for building.

By causing the conversion signal, radiation involved in stone nucleus fusion began to burn in the Earth stone, as above in the atmosphere UFO sound bodies were witnessed as the atmospheric gases burnt. Human kind then were inundated with skin lesions, psychic and spiritual attacks by spiritual evil beings, skin burning, and skin bleeding, along with a huge influx of natural disasters.

Therefore via observation and review, a human being male considered how he was created, that he himself was a Creator spirit, applied the terms of his creation review and then caused a spiritual attack upon humanity.

This is how religious science was reviewed as an occult circumstance of spirit.

Then there is the personal review status of a human consciousness, the spirit of light interaction, the witness of their own deceased family members, healing and the stopping of the plague and skin bleeding condition that was called a holy event.

Human beings therefore witnessed via their own evidence the visitation of light beings from out of the light who they knew healed their life and cellular condition, and were advised by these light beings to NEVER TOUCH CREATION.

This is how ancient human life gained witness to real light beings, the awareness that their own human organic life cell manifested first as a light being who changed into an organic life cell, and that higher light beings not only protected their life, their spiritual consciousness, but also communicated information regarding the spiritual life circumstance.

This is the real verSION of SION and not the implied "its okay to do Science" incorrect spiritual review that involves the self acquired application of greed and powermongering.

Therefore for a very long time REAL HUMAN SPIRITUAL SELVES have argued against the evil OCCULT applications of SPIRITUAL SCIENCE and the practices that purposely BURN our Holy Heavenly Earth atmospheric condition proclaiming it to be the spiritual body condition that created all life.

Occult Science expression ignores a real light spirit presence as any form of existence and would prefer us all to either believe in alien beings who created us (because they believe in Hell and Satan in out of space...the fallen Heavenly body), or that Christ the Earth Heaven atmosphere is our spiritual creator, rather than a spirit life support system (Holy Ox and oxygen).

Therefore by review we can see that even the Catholic circumstance fought about occult spiritual reviews that allowed the practices of alchemic conversions that activated the attack signal wavelength in our atmosphere.

Hence as a human being who has for many years been involved in the witnessing of the light spirit and healing I became aware of how evil our life has become, where even the hierarchy who once fought for our spiritual life protection now supports the application of science for a new resource.

Resource only belongs to invention and invention to greed and power mongering.

Our life circumstance as an extended family has always been about spiritual support and spiritual union, and self experience the teaching application for this situation. Science does not teach spirit it teaches the occult which has no truth to the condition of spirit.

Without Science there would be no reference to an evil presence or an evil spirit. The natural life condition has no evil presence in its circumstance.

The unnatural applied spiritual occult practices of science and alchemic conversion INTRODUCED evil and the evil spirit into our lives. Not only were our beautiful bodies incinerated by the atmospheric condition of UFO conversion signals (as ancient archaeology demonstrates) held as a constant signal, our DNA mutated and we turned into animalistic, nasty human consciousness losing our natural holy DNA spirit, our natural brain chemistry that allows us to spiritually express our life condition for love.

We gained this mutated life cell condition as a de-evolution of spirit via a long and painful psychic and spiritual attack as our cells mutated via the introduced plague condition of the burnt atmospheric wavelengths.

Therefore as our scientific applications stopped, the burning constant signal of the atmosphere stopped, and our holy Heavenly spirit oxygen was resupplied and remassed....the Holy Mass condition of real occult description of the holy spirit (gases) lifting out of the holy grave (stone body) and renewing the gases in the atmosphere as the Holy Heaven return review.

Having gained a new oxygen supply our DNA healed from being irradiated from out of space signals that were allowed to penetrate the thin mass the atmosphere became (just as we witness today). Our spiritual memory supporting our decline into ill health an animalistic nature also returned as the sound imagery that supported a healthy cell returned, informing us all what had happened previously in our atmospheric condition....the holy life RECORDS or what some call the AKASHIC RECORDS.

Our atmosphere demonstrates that it does record and it records by light and sound. Therefore as the Holy Spirit of the Holy Christ Ox returned to the Holy Heaven, its sound/light spirit imagery told us the history of our ancestry as a spiritual or psychic review.

Therefore no Scientist need to claim that their wisdom demonstrates spirit existence as an occult application, for their wisdom only demonstrates that science and the occult method caused the evil spirit that attacked us all by the holding of a constant burning signal called HELL.

For the real spiritual experience to exist it has always had to argue against and use the evil occult information to try to demonstrate to occultists how incorrect their use and application of thinking caused our predecessors to suffer. This spirit teaching is therefore only an OCCULT VERSION or discussion of the Creation and not the light spirit self.

When we challenge the Science of spirit, the reply I gained from the Catholic Institution for example stated that our Holy Father gave them the ability to create, therefore by circumstance of living standards it gave them the personal right to alter creation.....yet human being male, who are you considering is the Creator....yourself or our Father?

Then they also explained that our Holy Mother (Heavenly atmospheric body) being the only Holy Mother their occult information expresses will save them.

Then we witness when they burn the atmosphere, a holy message is released as a female spirit as Fatima.....the loss of actual human life sound in the atmosphere as a message/warning.

The message itself communicates to the mind of human beings, therefore demonstrates that human beings witnessed the destruction of our life spirit, as a spirit sound body and demonstrated to have heard and documented actual occult science applications regarding HELL.

HELL in occult science is a description of secrecy EL for God and HE for window.

Therefore occult science demonstrates by its own evaluation that they are destroying the very presence of a spiritual sound that they imply protects their life, their life cell and their spirit condition as they live. They are causing our Holy Heavenly atmosphere to turn into an unholy Heavenly atmosphere by increasing HELL. The Holy Christ occult circumstance therefore cannot deal with the increase amount of burnt spirit signals and we are getting attacked.

Could any occult scientist claim by identifying conditions that they aren't actually destroying the spiritual life condition that they themselves factored in the ancient consciousness regarding the holiness of the Earth atmospheric Heaven?

As we all witness the UFO burning manifestation bodies as science continually attacks the atmosphere for conversion signals and experiments, what is it going to take to explain the spirit condition to those who ignore their OWN INFORMATION?

Occult Scientist believe that if they understand the ancient precepts of the God Heaven that they will have full identification of the Creator. They tell us that the only condition of spirit is our atmosphere and the space cell they previously named as HELL.

If this circumstance were real Scientist do you honestly believe that you would still be alive today, when by witness the Holy Mother spirit that occultism explains in the documents as the Holy Mother's body was released by evidence?

By conscious spiritual review the actual information of the male consciousness already told itself that it had received a higher message from our Father Light Being who warned them not to consider Satan and the Satanic image/sound messages in our atmosphere, or to consider yourself a Creator.

Yet what have these occult Scientists demonstrated to us all.....the old teaching warnings of not touching or causing conversions.

Therefore I would ask the public to consider does the ancient Brotherhood who consider themselves the owners of not only our spiritual teachings, but our spiritual conditions, and also ownership of our civilization and law applications to be the only spiritual truth on Planet Earth.

Because seemingly by review the human male placates that he himself is the controller of the condition he calls both his Father and his Mother's holy spirit?

Therefore occult Scientist do you believe that your own spirit came out of the atmosphere of Planet Earth? And if so, what is your version of how your spirit became a created and manifested life being as an organic life form?

What is the Catholic's occult scientific religious version as a proven actual creative identification and do they, just as the NASA occult scientists believe that their own spirit came out of our atmosphere and therefore believe in some form of evolution status?

Or do you believe in what Spiritualists have always known. That the Earth and the planets were created by a fallen light sound body. That the atmosphere came out of the DEAD TOMBS of the DEAD SPIRIT in STONE. That it arose as a spirit body (gases) back into the atmospheric condition, refilling and replacing the emptied out Heaven of the Christ (oxygen).

That our spiritual Light Father who we called God the Father created in his own Light Heaven the spirit bodies of organic life and sent them across into the Christ Heaven where they manifested as the life holy spirit? Both male and female were created equally.

Why would a human male consider his consciousness and the Creator as statements of a self review to be male....other than he (a male) as his own consciousness considered himself to be the Creator as he reviewed the status of creation for invention from his own conscious and spiritual thinking?

How about the correct review of spirit, that our Light spirit is an androgenous being, who created our equal spirit out of the same body, that we called this spirit via our own consciousness identification to be a Father only because by conscious identification a male spirit can not conceive.

Therefore reviewing the creation status we gave the androgenous true light spirit Creator a term of male ownership, when it was never owned by a male, does not have a scientific reference and cannot be gained by an occultist trying to identify spirit references in his own mind.

Therefore stating that God is a male has always been a personal fallacy as your own egotistical male presence denoting himself the all wise one. Hence your occult wisdom has always been false about the conditions you consider are holy and self protective....for the female Mother light sound spirit release already identified that you murdered a huge light sound body in our Christ atmosphere.

The male consciousness himself in his own ancient occult method of spiritually implying wisdom of spirit TOLD HIMSELF that the Creator as God is an UNKNOWN PRESENCE.

Therefore as a female human being who has been abused in scientific spiritual exploration I am imploring the public to consider all of the incorrect referenced spiritual data being used to not only harm our spirit life, but to also abuse our spirit life.

Hi guys. This subject is sooo fascinating. Anyway I love science and spirituality and they are both part of this beautiful universe we are in. The double slit experiment shows the wave function won't collapse unless it is observed. Now they have proven quantum entanglement. The action performed on one photon would influence it's twin that is all the way across the universe. Instantly.