Old testament vs new testament. - Page 2

RabbiO · #11 08-01-2016, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curious-one

ObServant,
True. I was using my thoughts as to what I believe according to the KJV of the bible. I saw where the Jews believe Jesus was not the messiah by the old testament. By the old and new testament I do believe The Jesus Christ was the Messiah. I was touched by God twenty five years ago and never got over it. I am not judge and jury on what one believes, but only for myself.

I believe the old and new testament. I am a Gentile who was saved and now I am a Christian. I also believe when a Gentile or any race that is saved is a spiritual Jew. I use the word spiritual. I believe in my mind heart that Jesus is the Messiah and I am a spiritual Jew. All I know is I love Isreal, but I do not know why except I do and this worries me.

I am not affiliated with any church. I meant no harm, just trying to find out why I love Isreal so much? Is it possible to believe the old and new testament? Curious-One

I don't know Greek so I cannot speak to the translation of Christian scripture, but I can tell you that the translation of Hebrew scripture, in the KJV, leaves something to be desired.

I can't stop you from considering yourself a "spiritual Jew" and calling yourself such, but in my opinion you have the same right to call yourself a Jew as I have a right to call myself a unicorn.

And, by the way, Gentiles are not a race, Jews are not a race, Hindus are not a race........ etc.

L'shalom,

Peter

RabbiO · #12 08-01-2016, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curious-one

What do old testament Jews, feel about new testament saved Christians? I love Isreal, but I do not know why? I am drawn to, "when saved I am a spiritual Jew"? Is this thought from God or Satan?

Adam and Eve chose sin instead of truth over God, Eve said, she was ? over it. The letter (?) means I do not remember her answer. Both Adam and Eve I believe were intelligent, but maybe misunderstood what God meant? Curious-One

I have discussed elsewhere the terminology "old testament Jews." As for how Jews feel about Christians, basically neutral. That is to say, practice your religion and leave us to practice yours. The concept of "saved" is a Christian concept that has no place in Judaism.

By the way, Jews do not believe in a devil. Traditionally, Ha-satan is a job title for an angel who serves G-d as the heavenly prosecutor.

L'shalom,

Peter

beloved_one · #13 09-01-2016, 12:36 AM

Well I personally view the "bible" as one continuous book from Genesis to Revelation. Unfortunately there has been a huge divide, kept even more separate for political reasons and gain on both sides.

There are those outside of the Jewish nation who are being called back to Israel at the moment. Israel the people more so than Israel the country.

ObServant · #14 09-01-2016, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beloved_one

Well I personally view the "bible" as one continuous book from Genesis to Revelation.

And Muslims would also include the Koran, but Jews would not include Christian and Islamic books amongst their scripture - anymore than Christians would include Hindu or Confucionist books amongst theirs.

beloved_one · #15 10-01-2016, 06:47 PM

Perhaps there is another religion forming as those who are being called out of Christianity explore their roots. I am not "Jewish" but I find Judaism beautiful, and I am connected to the Jewish people whether they or I like it or not.

Yaakov001 · #16 19-01-2016, 01:45 AM

Greetings. I'm an Orthodox Jew, but if you look at some of my other posts, you'll see I'm no stranger to Christianity. 1st off, let's be clear that the "Old Testament" is the 1st part of the Christian Bible. It is NOT the same as the Hebrew Bible. The books of the Hebrew Bible are arranged differently. They are counted differently. They are NOT christologically translated. The Hebrew Bible & the Old Testament, while similar, are NOT the same book. The fact that a Christian loves Jews or Israel (the latter as a community or a State or both) does not make him a Jew. If I loved France & the French I would still NOT be French. But w/ Jews & Judaism there is a religious element also. If a Jew joins another religion he is no longer a Jew. He can be non-Observant, but he can't join another faith. There is no such thing as a "spiritual Jew" except in Paul's writings, & by then he was already a Christian, ie, a non-Jew.

beloved_one · #17 19-01-2016, 04:02 AM

Paul / Shaul is probably the most misunderstood person in history, second to "Jesus" whose name was not Jesus, but that's okay.

Anyway, Christianity did not exist until after the temple was destroyed (IE "they were first called Christians in Antioch", hello "Maccabees", IE Antiochus Epiphanes), which is a generation or two (at least 40 years) after "Jesus" died. Yet, this "Jesus" fellow still had followers during that time, who were allowed into synagogues (as he had been). It really wasn't until the Bar Kokhba revolt in 135 AD where the fissure became a fracture, and the forefathers of my faith were ejected from synagogues.

Yaakov001 · #18 19-01-2016, 04:40 AM

You are quite correct as to the history of the matter. But that doesn't make Paul at all misunderstood. Rather it gives him less of an excuse for behaving the way he did and betraying his Faith for Yeshu the Mamzer. Yes. Let's call it what it is. If you are going to come in and preach and be blunt, then I shall be blunt as well. Let Yeshu's true origins be out, shall we? The Virgin Birth story was concocted, or borrowed from Paganism (as so much of Christianity was), to hide the fact that Yeshu was born on the wrong side of the blanket. He was the son of Miryam and a Roman soldier, Pantera, likely the result of rape. Certainly not his nor his mother's fault. But hardly an auspicious beginning for the so-called Messiah and King of the Jews.

beloved_one · #19 19-01-2016, 02:46 PM

Yes, I understand that many perpetuate the story of w****dom, who is this really about, YeshuA or his mother, Miryam?

If Sha'ul was a heretic why did he go to such lengths to uphold the Nazarite vow? Why did the Council in Acts basically implement the Noachide laws for the non-Jewish believers? Why did Yeshua quote Hillel so frequently?

beloved_one · #20 19-01-2016, 02:58 PM

Please don't misunderstand me though. I strongly believe that Judaism is more authentic IE closer to the Truth than Christianity. However, I do and will continue to defend Yeshua, who has fulfilled part of the Messianic promise .. the Word has gone out into the whole world, the whole world now has knowledge of HaShem, the One true Elohim, and the exiles (whom you still "bless" daily, if you really want it on the table) are being gathered in.