Is Judaism Too Wrapped Up In Doctrine?

[Honza]

To put it another way; what is the point of the details of Judaic teaching? Where do they lead one?


Would one not be better off without them?

Originally Posted by Honza

So back to Yamah's point - about detail.

My question is then; is Judaism too wrapped up in DETAIL?

I do not know the details of Judaism. But every discussion these days always seems to come back down to details. Why are they important? Isn't it better to cast them off and live through experience, observation, attention, awareness, devotion, worship....etc. Through daily living rather than TEACHINGS!

*insert not a Jew, but have an interest in Judaism disclaimer here*

Judaism has lots of details and traditions because that's one of the points of being a Jew. God gave the Israelites the Torah to set them apart from other nations. He gave them the rules and laws so that they are not like other peoples; to disregard the Mosaic laws is to turn one's back on God's commandments to the people of Israel.

Jews try to follow the Law in order to bring themselves closer to God's will; and to set an example for other peoples. The question of whether or not they are the best ways for everyone to live is irrelevant. If they were meant for everyone, then they would've been called universal laws - instead they only apply to Jews. Gentiles are not held accountable for not following the laws of the Torah (instead, the Noahide laws apply to all of humanity, and since there's only 7, it's much easier to follow them).

Basically, if you purge Judaism of it's laws and tradition you no longer have Judaism. Instead you'll have a religion vaguely based on Jewish cosmology, but not the faith that was handed to Moses.

To put it another way; what is the point of the details of Judaic teaching? Where do they lead one?


Would one not be better off without them?

See above.

[RabbiO]

Originally Posted by Honza

So back to Yamah's point - about detail.

My question is then; is Judaism too wrapped up in DETAIL?

I do not know the details of Judaism. But every discussion these days always seems to come back down to details. Why are they important? Isn't it better to cast them off and live through experience, observation, attention, awareness, devotion, worship....etc. Through daily living rather than TEACHINGS!

Judaic teaching? Judaic members? An odd turn of phrase in this day and age - The word "Jewish" works quite well.

It is hard to see how Judaism can "work" for you if you do not know the, as you put it, the "details." That's like saying you're going to vote for a candidate based upon the fact that he or she seems like a nice person without having any knowledge of his or her positions on the issues that matter most to you.

And Animus is correct, that the point of all these details is so that we can live and experience life, an authentic life being truly who we are and becoming truly who we are meant to be. Judaism is the roadmap we follow that enables us to encounter the divine even at the most mundane of moments.

The psalmist put it nicely in Psalm 19, beginning with verse 8, concerning those teachings whose source we Jews believe is G-d -
תורת ה תמימה משיבת נפש עדות ה נאמנה מחכימת פתי׃
פקודי ה ישרים משמחי־לב מצות ה ברה מאירת עינים׃
הנחמדים מזהב ומפז רב ומתוקים מדבש ונפת צופים׃

B'shalom,

Peter

(Yes, I know. I skipped a verse. I meant to.)

[psychoslice]

Honza: That is my opinion and I'm sticking with it. Hinduism and Buddhism just does not do it for me.

Whereas Christianity and Judaism DOES.
__________________

As long as you believe that the truth is found within one belief system such as Judaism or Christianity, then you haven't found the truth. When I say that you cannot know the truth, of course I am talking about the ego mind which can never know the truth. The truth is life, its living life as it is, its not trying to interpret life from our past conditioning, its just letting go and letting god, not some father figure setting up in the sky on a cloud, its knowing that you are also god, and that there is nothing outside of god, its not being frightened of uttering your name, for this is fear, fear keeps you away from who you truly are, all religions have used fear to keep you away from knowing this truth, its time to take your rightful place in life, and Realize that you are GOD, but also to Realize that there is nothing or no one that isn't God.

[Honza]

It just goes to show that I am totally ignorant of Judaism. I had no idea what the term meant or implied. I thought it was basically the 'Old Testament' that the Christians talk about. But I now see that there is much more to it than that.

YEah, but Judeism was meant to be discussed and though about, so it has lots and ltos of details. Why do you think christianity is so similar?

Originally Posted by Honza

It just goes to show that I am totally ignorant of Judaism. I had no idea what the term meant or implied. I thought it was basically the 'Old Testament' that the Christians talk about. But I now see that there is much more to it than that.

There are a lot of misconceptions about Judaism. So don't feel bad.

The Talmud is one of the other major texts of Jewish sects, besides the Tanakh (the book that is basically the OT, just.... 2 extra books, I think? Maybe RabbiO can correct me). So Judaism is not just the Old Testament.

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm Here's a good site about basic Jewish questions - keep in mind that it's from an Orthodox POV. Which isn't bad, but their opinions are not universal among Jews; as the saying goes: Ask three Jews their opinion on something, and get four answers

And - http://www.jewfaq.org/beliefs.htm

If you don't know much about Judaism; explore it Honza. You might like it. I know I sympathize a lot with many Jewish beliefs. But I doubt I could convert. Because once a Jew always a Jew lol. And I dunno if I have that level of commitment.

1) Tanakh (the Original Testament)
2) The Mishna (six tractates of compounded law for interpretation)
3) The Gemara (2,711 pages in 37 volumes of law discussions and philosophical parables)

Those are the primary texts used in Jewish spiritual practice, which is an intellectual path to spirituality. They are build one on top of the other - the Mishna is derived from Tanach, and Gemara expands the Mishna.

The expansion of the Gemara was then redacted in more modern times (16th century) into the 'Shulchan Aruch' which is a text of practical laws, which was then adapted and slightly expanded with commentaries into the Mishna Berurah. Most Jews nowadays follow either the straight Shulchan Aruch or the expanded Mishna Berurah when it comes to daily practice.

There are also hundreds of accepted commentaries written on everything. A true talmudic scholar should be familiar with all the major commentaries.

[Honza]

So what is the Torah and the Kabbalah? In which books do they lie?

It may be that the forum is only reflecting the inherent nature of religion. Focusing on that which divides rather than than commonalities.