Kundalini & Chakras

[running]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

The same way the mind believes there is a person called running :)

can you stop your heart or chakras? like i came up with a username? decide to have fewer or more and it happens?

[running]

ok. so i just remembered something else from my intuition. intuition says, " i am nothing more than an instrument." im thinking this message has something in it for the discussion. gonna think about it.

[django]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Chakra's and such things are local mind maps. A great way of understanding this is that depending on the tradition the number and what those practitioners experience differs. Some traditions have 4, others 7, while others have 12. You have Taoist traditions that don't use chakras at all.

With your analogy, I would reverse it. It is the mind that projects you and everything that you perceive.

The mind certainly projects its own interpretation of things via the senses and the intellect, but what produces the mind? I am suggesting it is the body and the subtle energy body. The way the mind interprets and understands to me then defines the level of consciousness that someone operates from.

In the end it's just a different belief system really, and we all will have our own personal belief systems. It seems to me that you are proposing a Buddhist belief system, but in the end that too is just one more belief system.

The answer to why beliefs range from 3, 5, 7 or more chakras to even no chakras at all might be due to imperfect comprehension of the energy body, but it doesn't prove there is no energy body made of chakras and nadi's.

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

Respecting all views, my take on kundalini as an intermediate manifestation is as follows, reproduced from another section on SF:

Sleepy consciousness
Awaking to awareness
As Absoluteness
So cognises
But no longer sizes
Yet embraces surprises
Unfettered & free
Renewing the flowing entrée
With childlike glee
Duality is ... so live & flow
Non duality is ... so let love glow
In stillness slow

***

[django]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

A great perspective!

What in your view then is that aspect of ourselves which controls the on/off switch? And so, believing the image to be real being hypnosis, who is the hypnotiser and who is the hypnotised?

***

I've tried to come up with an answer to your questions for a couple of days, and I can't really

In my own understanding we are not aware of the divided nature of our brains, and in the race to be non-dual the physical basis of the two lobes that underpin our brains workings is ignored.

Split brain experiments suggested that a separate consciousness existed in each lobe of the brain, this was a theory based on their findings and and not able to be proven, but I have come to the same conclusion.

Following on from this idea, the physical underpinning of the brain lobes as the source of consciousness can be assumed.

Ultimately my consciousness should be able to sit above identification with either lobe, or any chakra, lately I have considered this consciousness to potentially be something like the symphony that the chakras and the lobes create when working in harmony, comprehending and integrating each individual tone from below.

This isn't an answer your question, just riffing on my current thinking.

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

The kundalini as energy ... as our consciousness itself awakens, enlivening the body ... the body being our vehicle for earth life experience.

In time, as of my experience (naughty! naughty! All experiences being manifestations!), all chakras are not only aligned but also entwined as a rod of living energy within form in permanence. Then there is no need of any kundalini movement since there is no here or there or coming or going.

We are the dormant or slowly awakening consciousness and we are also the formless oneness awareness. It is a pulse. One becoming two. Two fusing as one. A dance.

***

Hello,

As posted before on this thread:

"But the question remains as to why Energy takes this form of Matter and not that of simple currents of force, or why really Spirit admits it as the phenomenon of matter and does not remain at rest in the states, the desires and the joys of the spirit. (...) But obviously the incarnated individual mind is not the creator of the phenomenon of Matter."

Shrî Aurobindo, The Divine Life.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by running

can you stop your heart or chakras? like i came up with a username? decide to have fewer or more and it happens?

Can you stop the rain? Are you still trapped in the local mind?

Move beyond it and then where are you?

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

The mind certainly projects its own interpretation of things via the senses and the intellect, but what produces the mind? I am suggesting it is the body and the subtle energy body. The way the mind interprets and understands to me then defines the level of consciousness that someone operates from.

In the end it's just a different belief system really, and we all will have our own personal belief systems. It seems to me that you are proposing a Buddhist belief system, but in the end that too is just one more belief system.

The answer to why beliefs range from 3, 5, 7 or more chakras to even no chakras at all might be due to imperfect comprehension of the energy body, but it doesn't prove there is no energy body made of chakras and nadi's.

Actually all traditions have the same belief I am pointing out.

Chakras, nadis and an energy body is at the local mind level. Likes stages of realization.

When you realize you are everything where then is your energy body?

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

The kundalini as energy ... as our consciousness itself awakens, enlivening the body ... the body being our vehicle for earth life experience.

In time, as of my experience (naughty! naughty! All experiences being manifestations!), all chakras are not only aligned but also entwined as a rod of living energy within form in permanence. Then there is no need of any kundalini movement since there is no here or there or coming or going.

We are the dormant or slowly awakening consciousness and we are also the formless oneness awareness. It is a pulse. One becoming two. Two fusing as one. A dance.

***

The two truly merged you would be the source of all that is. All that is, is the energy that is ever expanding and contracting and at the same time a perfect stillness.

The Heart of Siva

The Heart, says Abhinavagupta, is the very Self of Siva, of Bhairava,

and of the Devi, the Goddess who is inseparable from Siva. Indeed,

the Heart is the site of their union (yamala), of their embrace (samghatta).

This abode is pure consciousness (caitanya) as well as unlimited bliss

(ananda). As consciousness the Heart is the unbounded, infinite light

(prakasa) as well as the freedom (svatantrya) and spontaneity (vimarsa)

of that light to appear in a multitude and variety of forms. The Heart,

says Abhinavagupta, is the sacred fire-pit of Bhairava.1

The Heart is the Ultimate (anuttara) which is both utterly transcendent

to (visvottirna) and yet totally immanent in (visvamaya) all created things.

It is the ultimate essence (sara). Thus, the Heart embodies the paradoxical

nature of Siva and is therefore a place of astonishment (camatkara), sheer

wonder (vismaya), and ineffable mystery. The Heart is the fullness and

unboundedness of Siva (purnatva), the plenum of being that overflows

continuously into manifestation. At the same time, it is also an inconceivable

emptiness (sunyatisunya).2 The Heart is the unbounded and

universal Self (purnahanta).

The Heart of Siva is not a static or inert absolute, however. In fact,

the non-dual Kashmir Shaiva tradition considers it to be in a state of

perpetual movement, a state of vibration (spanda)3 in which it is continuously

contracting and expanding (samkoca-vikasa), opening and closing

(unmesa-nimesa), trembling (ullasita), quivering (sphurita), throbbing,

waving, and sparkling (ucchalata). The intensity and speed of this move

ment is such that paradoxically it is simultaneously a perfect dynamic

stillness.4

The tradition states that the Heart is the enormous ocean (ambunidhi),

the ocean of light, the ocean of consciousness. The waters of consciousness

that in man are broken by countless polarizing and divisive waves (urmi)

may be easily brought to a state of dynamic stillness by the process of

immersion or absorption (samdvesa) in the Heart.