Is the pre-birth soul/life plan real?

Spiritual_Light · #1 14-04-2019, 09:26 PM

I have been reading a lot on spirituality in general, as well as what many mediums have said and people who have had an NDE and came back, and the general understanding or belief is that we have a pre-birth plan that we decide to do to learn certain lessons here on Earth.

One thing I am curious about is how that fits in with freewill and God? The reason I ask this is because how is it some people are able to pray for healing and then obtain a miraculous recovery if everything has been set-up pre-birth to be ill etc? Is this then possible to change?

Everything I have read and heard from mediums in particular, is that it isn't. Basically the belief God doesn't intervene, and that the plan and lessons decided pre-birth are not able to be changed. But this doesn't explain how those who have had an NDE had their situation change when they discussed their situation when they died with those on the other side - some even said they didn't want to go back to suffer, and then they were gifted something to make it easier for them, like some healing or some form of help if they went back to continue their life.

So my question is, how do we change our sufferings through our pre-birth soul/life plan here on Earth without having to die and have an NDE or some other extreme way, surely there is a way to change things? Why for example have some also received special blessings and healings either through the means of their own prayers or others praying for them which has changed this? And obviously why have others also not?

TheGlow · #2 14-04-2019, 11:51 PM

All those things, healings, NDE, all of it can be preplanned.

I had a quasi NDE a few years ago, had a quasi NDE as a toddler too, but the last one caused by a serious blow to the head and skull fracture, It took almost 2 years to recover. I came out with much more contact with the other side, and it changed my direction of development and level of openness(reduced grip of ego) significantly. It has not been all roses.

It was clearly preplanned for that purpose, so my next chapter could align and fall into place.

I wouldn't assume these things make life easier, if anything it made staying here MUCH harder even up to today. Like constant cognitive dissonance I have seen through the illusion and the other side feels much more real and comfortable.

It was more like I was ready to work on a different chapter of development so it was a sudden large shift. Might be the same with people who receive healings, its to usher in a new chapter like death of a loved one or divorce.

There is no saying miracles or NDE are not written into your plan, but I think most have more subtle transitions between chapters. Pre plans and these events that do not look preplanned do not really prove anything. A surprise party is unexpected by the receiver but the plan was there before it happened.

FallingLeaves · #3 15-04-2019, 12:08 AM

oh never mind. I need to get off my soap box lol!

Spiritual_Light · #4 15-04-2019, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGlow

All those things, healings, NDE, all of it can be preplanned.

I had a quasi NDE a few years ago, had a quasi NDE as a toddler too, but the last one caused by a serious blow to the head and skull fracture, It took almost 2 years to recover. I came out with much more contact with the other side, and it changed my direction of development and level of openness(reduced grip of ego) significantly. It has not been all roses.

It was clearly preplanned for that purpose, so my next chapter could align and fall into place.

I wouldn't assume these things make life easier, if anything it made staying here MUCH harder even up to today. Like constant cognitive dissonance I have seen through the illusion and the other side feels much more real and comfortable.

It was more like I was ready to work on a different chapter of development so it was a sudden large shift. Might be the same with people who receive healings, its to usher in a new chapter like death of a loved one or divorce.

There is no saying miracles or NDE are not written into your plan, but I think most have more subtle transitions between chapters. Pre plans and these events that do not look preplanned do not really prove anything. A surprise party is unexpected by the receiver but the plan was there before it happened.

I understand what you saying, but looking at some NDE's, the conversations that were had with the other side seemed to imply that they were set on a path/plan and the NDE itself wasn't planned. The event such as the surgery, the accident, the illness - yes seemed to be part of the soul/life plan, but some of the NDE's that occured were not. Some people have described in their NDE as being thrown back before they got the chance to even ask questions, whereas others were not. For those that did get to ask questions and discuss their plan, many did not want to go back because things seemed too difficult, but this was slightly changed to make it easier for them so that they would complete it, such as a gift of healing to their body, a spiritual insight that would help them, or a baby, a wife, a husband, a job. This all seemed to be negotiated through that.

Altair · #5 15-04-2019, 07:28 PM

No, I do not believe in soul plans or other beliefs indicating predetermination. Life as we observe it is very complex and random events constantly occur. When the asteroid hit the earth 64 million years ago it killed off the non-avian dinosaurs. Meaning? Purpose? Predetermination? Nah. The physical universe is simply creativity, and creativity doesn't play grand plans or follow our standards of how things ought to be. That is what we do..

Similarly.. the yersinia pestis killed millions of people over the centuries, most notably in the 1340s when it killed around half of the European population. It killed young and old, poor and rich, priest and beggar. It did not care about your beliefs. Was there a meaning? A purpose? Did those millions of people had an afterlife chat with the souls of yersinia pestis before taking birth...?? Sounds ludicrous to me..

We gotta take life as it is, and create meaning and purpose individually and collectively, as human beings..!

iamthat · #6 15-04-2019, 09:29 PM

Of course, the idea that millions of humans had an agreement with "the souls of yersinia pestis before taking birth" that they would be killed off is ludicrous. But using a ludicrous example does not disprove the idea of soul plans.

Some of us have no problems with accepting life on Earth as an ongoing manifestation of a Divine Plan. Random events may occur within that Plan, but that does not mean there is no Plan.

Altair is entitled to his beliefs, but he is in no position to assert that his beliefs are a true reflection of reality.

Peace.

Spiritual_Light · #7 15-04-2019, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altair

No, I do not believe in soul plans or other beliefs indicating predetermination. Life as we observe it is very complex and random events constantly occur. When the asteroid hit the earth 64 million years ago it killed off the non-avian dinosaurs. Meaning? Purpose? Predetermination? Nah. The physical universe is simply creativity, and creativity doesn't play grand plans or follow our standards of how things ought to be. That is what we do..

Similarly.. the yersinia pestis killed millions of people over the centuries, most notably in the 1340s when it killed around half of the European population. It killed young and old, poor and rich, priest and beggar. It did not care about your beliefs. Was there a meaning? A purpose? Did those millions of people had an afterlife chat with the souls of yersinia pestis before taking birth...?? Sounds ludicrous to me..

We gotta take life as it is, and create meaning and purpose individually and collectively, as human beings..!

Yes I believe that is also possible. My perspective on that would be to say that either God had meant for that to happen for a purpose that is beyond a soul plan. The same can be said for wars. As wars happen a lot due to ignorance and ego as part of freewill, which also adds a level of spontaneity it would seem. But who can tell how much is freewill or predestined events mapped out? If we knew that then we would understand the purpose of such sufferings.

But one thing I find conflicted in believing, is how things/events are unchangeable. I believe freewill can change anything. But how much is successful in changing an outcome for the better is a grey area. But I do think things like politics are a good example of people's freewill that can change so much and constantly evolve, as there are so many ways things can play out because there are so many people involved who can influence it.

However if we look at people's lives singularly, in the perspective of a soul plan that is mapped out to experience certain lessons to spiritually grow, then I do think that is possible as well. For example a woman who was never able to conceive is supposed to learn how to express their motherly love in other ways as part of the lesson from not being able to have their own child, but their freewill allows them also to not do that and perhaps instead end up being a bitter person who is angry over the fact they could not conceive. So there are many ways our freewill can change how we walk and journey through a possible soul plan as well. It in some ways, appears to evolve with our choices, hence why I believe some people were able to make other choices or amendments when they had an NDE.

Altair · #8 15-04-2019, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamthat

Of course, the idea that millions of humans had an agreement with "the souls of yersinia pestis before taking birth" that they would be killed off is ludicrous. But using a ludicrous example does not disprove the idea of soul plans.

I'm not so sure about that.. Sometimes we have to raise extreme examples to show possible errors in belief systems. If millions of people didn't sign soul contracts or killed the souls of those bacteria in a past life than what other ''spiritual explanation'' do we have..? What ''plan'' could 'God' possibly have for letting people - regardless of their status, wealth, occupation, or good/bad deeds - all die like that? It's easy to come up with belief systems but it's much harder to accept it may just be random and that there ain't a blueprint..

Altair · #9 16-04-2019, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janielee

With respect, as ludicrous as you find iamthat's proposition, your proposition could just be the same.

Until you know (outside of intellectual deduction) perhaps it might be better to reserve judgement or at least think "I'm not 100% sure, but this is what I think is more believable"

JL

I'm as agnostic as I can about these questions...

I don't say there can't be a Grand Plan. I'm saying it seems unlikely because what we have as explanation already works..
Why assume there is more to it..?

So let us explore.
What do you think happened between the souls of yersinia pestis and those of 14th century people..?
And did dinosaurs die out cause they've been bad guys..? If it's karma, desire and attachment than what did these animals do..?

Was it a soul contract..? God's plan..? Karmic retribution..?

Native spirit · #10 16-04-2019, 08:14 PM

I don't belive in it I would Never have choosen to be born into the family I was born into.i have always said I was born in the wrong country and I can remember being born,and not wanting it.so no I don't believe it.
The only thing I'm certain of is I walk my final path I will never be back again

Namaste