Using awareness as a simile to represent the unimaginable

[dattaseva]

The absolute reality is always without spatial dimensions while the relative reality is always bound within spatial dimensions. The Creator is the absolute reality and creation is relative reality. The relative reality is always imaginable since it has spatial dimensions. Creation contains both visible and invisible items.

Visible items have macro-spatial dimensions while invisible items have micro-spatial dimensions that cannot be perceived by the naked eye. Therefore, a stone is visible and the atom present in it is invisible. Only the absolute reality is unimaginable since it has no spatial dimensions at all. Being the generator of spatial dimensions, this absolute reality does not contain any space.

One must differentiate the invisible from the unimaginable. Since there is every possibility of mistaking an invisible item as an unimaginable entity, an invisible item can be selected as a simile for the unimaginable.

Out of all the invisible items, awareness is the best choice for this simile as it is the most precious item of creation.

The soul or awareness is only nervous energy—a specific work form of the general inert energy generated by the digestion and assimilation of food. The same inert energy is called as awareness when it flows in a particular system called the nervous system; the inert energy becomes that specific form due to its function.

Awareness is only the work of transportation of information from sensory organs to the brain through neurons. Similarly, the same inert energy becomes a specific work form called respiration in a specific system known as the lungs. Likewise, circulation is only a specific work form of the inert cosmic energy in the heart, veins, arteries and so on.

A scientist defined life or awareness as the sound generated by beating a drum with a stick. The sound is neither the drum nor the stick nor the inert energy applied by the human hand in the form of beating. The sound is only a mechanical work form of inert energy that is generated by the transformation of the inert energy in a specific dynamic system, the components of which are the drum, the stick and the action of beating.

Similarly, life/awareness is neither food nor the digestion/assimilation of food nor the inert energy nor the nervous system; awareness is simply a specific kind of work generated by the transformation of the inert energy in a specialized nervous system.

This awareness is often used as a simile for the unimaginable Creator. But that does not mean awareness is the absolute reality; it is simply used in a symbolic way to represent the unimaginable God.

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by dattaseva

Awareness is only the work of transportation of information from sensory organs to the brain through neurons.

You got this very wrong. It is possible for yogis to have the state of Awareness even without the aid of a physical body or nervous system in itself.

[dattaseva]

Sure. There are self-aware beings out there (in other worlds) with very subtle energetic bodies that cannot be discovered by present scientific technologies. And yeah, some Yogis or saints of high calibre can be aware without physical bodies. But even such people have what is known as sukshma sharira or astral bodies.

These highly evolved people and other worldly beings are still confined to bodies with limited awareness. The knowledge potential of a being from another world may be far greater than the knowledge potential of a Yogi, who at the same time, possesses a much higher level of knowledge than an ordinary human being. One is relatively greater or lesser than the other; they are not absolute or omniscient in any way.

There is awareness in this universe that is omniscient. This awareness knows everything there is to know and is independent of all visible and invisible items in creation. This is the awareness of God and cannot be attained by ordinary human beings or high-caliber Yogis or even the most advanced beings from other worlds.

However, the unimaginable God or the absolute reality, being the boundless ocean of compassion, may bestow His grace upon a very select soul/being. God merges completely with such a being while staying apart from the rest of creation. Such a soul becomes God incarnate and is said to be omniscient and omnipotent (For ex. Lord Shiva, Lord Vishnu, etc. in energetic bodies and Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, etc. in human bodies are considered to be different forms of the same unimaginable God). This is not possible by any amount of self effort and depends completely upon God's grace.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by dattaseva

Only the absolute reality is unimaginable since it has no spatial dimensions at all. Being the generator of spatial dimensions, this absolute reality does not contain any space.

There is much that can both be imagined and experienced that requires no space or spatial component. This includes feelings/emotions, self/identities, consciousness, awareness, many sensory inputs (pain, cold), psychological things (loyalty, longing, prejudice), intellectual creations (money, debt, history, story, language), ...

Perhaps you mean can not be visualized rather than can't be imagined.

Absolute reality lacks many things one might assume to from a manifest reality perspective. In addition to space, it lacks time, experience, and actualized form.

[dattaseva]

Originally Posted by wstein

There is much that can both be imagined and experienced that requires no space or spatial component. This includes feelings/emotions, self/identities, consciousness, awareness, many sensory inputs (pain, cold), psychological things (loyalty, longing, prejudice), intellectual creations (money, debt, history, story, language), ...

Perhaps you mean can not be visualized rather than can't be imagined.

Feelings, thoughts or intellectual concepts exist in relation to something else. For example, greed is associated with a person who's greedy or any other creature or situation representing the feeling in the best possible manner. Similarly the concept of money is associated with a bunch of other things that give it any sort of meaning.

Even pain or coolness are only sensations that arise due to neurons firing off in the brain based upon interactions with certain environmental stimuli. Meaning, these sensations arise based on a system that's confined to spatial dimensions.

So in that sense, although many things are not necessarily visualized, every thought or feeling is nevertheless the result of a series of mechanisms taking place within spatial dimensions.

Originally Posted by wstein

Absolute reality lacks many things one might assume to from a manifest reality perspective. In addition to space, it lacks time, experience, and actualized form.

In other words, the absolute reality is simply unimaginable. It's existence can be known/inferred only through a medium such as awareness or a very specific human being based on the expression of an unimaginability nature. :)

[wstein]

Originally Posted by dattaseva

In other words, the absolute reality is simply unimaginable. It's existence can be known/inferred only through a medium such as awareness or a very specific human being based on the expression of an unimaginability nature. :)

You equate the Creator to absolute reality. Perhaps you can say more about what creator means to you. It the creator a being? Is creator simply the thing that made something from nothing?

I have done some extreme OBE in my time. I have been to parts of reality that lacked "space, it lacks time, experience, and actualized form" (unmanifest reality). Having done that, it is not so hard to imagine a return to such things. In my experience, unmanifest reality is still quite 'far' in nature from unity/all. I have tried to get as close to unity as possible. At some point one ceases to be able to perceive anything (going all the way would be a one way trip). If you go closer you can't know it or retain anything upon returning.

I am not sure how you would categorize such parts of reality. For me at least, lacking spatial dimensions is far from the end of what one can explore or imagine.

[dattaseva]

Originally Posted by wstein

You equate the Creator to absolute reality. Perhaps you can say more about what creator means to you. It the creator a being? Is creator simply the thing that made something from nothing?

Suppose a person appears in a red shirt every time you see him. It’d be logical to say that you’d associate the red shirt with the person. The red shirt becomes an associated quality of such a person. The associated quality is of course different from the inherent qualities of that person, which may be generosity, pragmatism etc.

The Creator is beyond perception. His/Her/Its (I prefer Him) inherent qualities are impossible to know. However, it is possible to know the associated qualities of the Creator. In ancient Vedic scriptures, the Creator, Maintainer and Destroyer of this universe is associated with 4 qualities—endless bliss, boundless love, illusion-destroying wisdom/knowledge and infinite power. These qualities together form the divine personality of God. Whenever the absolute reality expresses its existence in this world, it is done so through these 4 qualities.

Originally Posted by wstein

I have done some extreme OBE in my time. I have been to parts of reality that lacked "space, it lacks time, experience, and actualized form" (unmanifest reality). Having done that, it is not so hard to imagine a return to such things. In my experience, unmanifest reality is still quite 'far' in nature from unity/all. I have tried to get as close to unity as possible. At some point one ceases to be able to perceive anything (going all the way would be a one way trip). If you go closer you can't know it or retain anything upon returning.

I am not sure how you would categorize such parts of reality. For me at least, lacking spatial dimensions is far from the end of what one can explore or imagine.

Awareness in this universe is discontinuous. That is to say, although this universe is one, some parts of it are unaware/inert (stones, minerals, gases, etc.) while other parts of it are aware (angels, humans, animals, birds, etc.) to varying degrees. Ultimately, the basic material of this world is energy. This same energy is transformed into or takes up the shape of awareness.

What I’m trying to get at is this—’you’ are pure awareness. After a certain point, beyond a certain limit, ‘you’ cease to exist; only cosmic energy remains. For example, in the state of deep sleep, there is no hint of awareness. But upon awakening, the ‘I’ immediately comes into existence. That is why, you cannot retain memories of this unity. Because, although ‘you’ are one with this cosmos, the ‘you’/awareness can exist only in apparent separation as a specialized work form of the same cosmic energy that is a united whole.

The absolute reality or God (which also stands for Generation, Operation and Destruction) is beyond this ocean of cosmic energy.

[Baile]

Love your God descriptions. Your soul description, not at all. But you're not here to please me, so thank you for sharing all of it.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by dattaseva

The Creator is beyond perception. His/Her/Its (I prefer Him) inherent qualities are impossible to know. However, it is possible to know the associated qualities of the Creator. In ancient Vedic scriptures, the Creator, Maintainer and Destroyer of this universe is associated with 4 qualities—endless bliss, boundless love, illusion-destroying wisdom/knowledge and infinite power. These qualities together form the divine personality of God. Whenever the absolute reality expresses its existence in this world, it is done so through these 4 qualities.

The essence (concept) of bliss, love, power, etc are primary attributes (independent of other attributes) of reality. The instances of them are of course dependant on the primary essences. Yet they are not all the 'same', thus one is not at unity/oneness.

What you are calling 'qualities' would seem to be combinations of such essences. I would include illusion, wisdom, knowledge in this category.

In my understanding much of reality is more primary than Creator, Maintainer, Destroyer, God as these are composites of many, many qualities and attributes.

Originally Posted by dattaseva

Awareness in this universe is discontinuous.

I don't think anything confined to this universe is informative on this topic.

Originally Posted by dattaseva

What I’m trying to get at is this—’you’ are pure awareness. After a certain point, beyond a certain limit, ‘you’ cease to exist; only cosmic energy remains. For example, in the state of deep sleep, there is no hint of awareness. But upon awakening, the ‘I’ immediately comes into existence. That is why, you cannot retain memories of this unity. Because, although ‘you’ are one with this cosmos, the ‘you’/awareness can exist only in apparent separation as a specialized work form of the same cosmic energy that is a united whole.

I would say that I am consciousness AND awareness. I agree that beyond a certain limit 'you' ceases to exist. One can make a reasonable argument that 'you ' never existed as all is part of the same oneness. At some point the cosmic energy also ceases to exist. Further on energy ceases to even be possible.

A being of pure awareness is independent of whether or not they 'exist'. Form the point of view of 'you are pure awareness', one 'exists' when they manifest/incarnate into manifested reality. Without the property of existence, one's beingness has attributes and possibilities which, depending on one's nature/abilities, can be altered. Actualizing those attributes and possibilities requires existing (or something like it).

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Overall all I agree with where you are headed in your explanation. In a Western view you are deconstructing reality, in an Eastern view you are dissolving things back into unity. For me, I have unified 'past' gods, beings, consciousness, awareness, and existing. It appears that you have stopped at God/Creator.

Attempting to be aware/perceive too 'close' to unity fails as there is nothing to perceive. Really close to unity, even perceiving is not a possibility.

[enesbud]

Let us simplify arguments about creation, unity, and awareness..

While the subject might need long articles, I'll try to be concise..

If you want to be logical, there's no such thing as creation from nothing..

There's a unified life energy that fills the cosmos.. It's eternal..

You can associate with that the concept of GOD..

All forms of life are transient incarnations of that basic life field..

Here comes awareness..

What's your awareness of existence?

It's not just some energy flowing in a nervous system..

The nervous system is just a vehicle or device that serves your awareness..

But who's being aware in you?

You might say your soul..

But you cannot have a soul that's independent from the world soul.. Just like you cannot have any physical system to be independent of the cosmic energy field..

Our own awareness belongs to the cosmic spirit.. Awareness of its own transient existences in each and everyone..

The concepts of space and time are just theoretical instuments to describe physical reality where the great spirit finds its transient existences.. They are means to acquire consciousness..

However the basic fact is that we all belong to the spirit that governs our unified cosmic life..

We are one with that great spirit, our great existence..

Individual existences are transient excursions of our great origin..