Contract to be non-believer

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Claude

So why would someone be programmed to be a believer or non believer? In the end it seems that happens by own choice.

Where did my cat go after her death? Did she had soul?

Here is a spiritual question: Where is Stalin, now or any other human that provoked sufferings by own choice? Where is my abusive mom? They decided to make other suffer by their own choice . Are their soul in a low vibration plane? They reviewed their life and they decided to reincarnate in order not to provoke suffering?

Circumstance, environment, influences, programming as a child who doesn’t know any differently to their main careers.

Every person is a product of the whole. You have to understand the totality of a person to understand their way of being in this life. Some people are so troubled and conditioned, they play that out against others. Control and fear is deep seated. Power and control is also the way some humans feed their needs and desires. We could outline their entire life process and other lives if you believe in them and that map would reveal much understanding. Sometimes you have to get inside the minds of aforementioned people to truly learn of their ways.

The greater mystery, where we may never truly know the reasons why, may only be to understand ourselves, in how we choose to live and care for life around us differently. Every person is playing various roles that reflect life as life is through the whole stream. At the time of passing over, I’ve known people go through a life review and letting go process. It seems that the light is very forgiving and loving for those who suffer and inject suffering upon others. It’s the mind that contains suffering, power and fears. It’s through letting go to source we learn of more. So I suspect the more pain the more is released through the passage of the dying process.

Everything not of the light is brought to light..through life or death. As for believer or non believer. Believe in what?

Originally Posted by Claude

So why would someone be programmed to be a believer or non believer? In the end it seems that happens by own choice.

Why are you programmed the way you are? When you understand why you are programmed the way you are you understand the reasons everybody else is programmed to be the way they are.

Originally Posted by Claude

Where did my cat go after her death? Did she had soul?

Nobody is quite sure what a Soul is as much nobody is quite sure what the afterlife is, and whether the same 'rules' apply to animals or not. There is an Afterlife whatever that is and there is something of all Life that goes there after physical death.

Originally Posted by Claude

Here is a spiritual question: Where is Stalin, now or any other human that provoked sufferings by own choice? Where is my abusive mom? They decided to make other suffer by their own choice . Are their soul in a low vibration plane? They reviewed their life and they decided to reincarnate in order not to provoke suffering and raise vibration?

The barrier to this is not Spirituality but ethics and frankly that's another discussion that often ends badly in these forums. I've yet to see one that hasn't.

Since you mentioned your abusive mom, I'm guessing that what you're trying to understand is how you personally move on from there? What is it that you're really looking for, are you trying to understand the concepts or the reasons it happened to you?

[Claude]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Why are you programmed the way you are? When you understand why you are programmed the way you are you understand the reasons everybody else is programmed to be the way they are.

I don't know, maybe it's their choice once alive

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Nobody is quite sure what a Soul is as much nobody is quite sure what the afterlife is, and whether the same 'rules' apply to animals or not. There is an Afterlife whatever that is and there is something of all Life that goes there after physical death.

The barrier to this is not Spirituality but ethics and frankly that's another discussion that often ends badly in these forums. I've yet to see one that hasn't.

Since you mentioned your abusive mom, I'm guessing that what you're trying to understand is how you personally move on from there? What is it that you're really looking for, are you trying to understand the concepts or the reasons it happened to you?

"There is an afterlife whatever that is" do you mean an afterlife in terms of spirituality as soul living on after death?

Yes you're right, if my abusive mom decided to be abusive before her birth to teach me a lesson then fine. If she decided to be abusive to me because she is frustrated with life, then I don't get it, so I think more the concept of what happens with harmful people after their death

You mentioned Einstein and Tesla as believers, but that happened long ago, since then science and technology advanced a lot, we have computers, now AI, more and more people become more skeptic like my mom about the past especially about faith often saying "Oh come on, wake up! it's 2019 not 200, we have computer, Artificial Intelligence, who does still believe in spirituality stuff that is not backed up by anything? Those were brought up by ancients as they didn't have explanations. After death will be like before birth a.k.a nothing"

Originally Posted by Claude

I don't know, maybe it's their choice once alive

It's not about their choice, it's about your choice.

Originally Posted by Claude

"There is an afterlife whatever that is" do you mean an afterlife in terms of spirituality as soul living on after death?

There is something after physical death and people who have passed over keep their memories and some of their personality, what the 'details' are I doubt anybody really knows.

Originally Posted by Claude

Yes you're right, if my abusive mom decided to be abusive before her birth to teach me a lesson then fine. If she decided to be abusive to me because she is frustrated with life, then I don't get it, so I think more the concept of what happens with harmful people after their death

It's possible that your mother was abusive because she was frustrated with Life, and in a way what she was perhaps trying to communicate to you was that this is what she was feeling. Often when people are like this, what they're expressing is what they can't deal with on the inside and it's often a cry for help. Sometimes it's genetic so the next question is are you so frustrated with Life that you've turned to Spirituality? If so and you have decided that you don't want to be like your mother then perhaps she's left you a legacy.

Originally Posted by Claude

You mentioned Einstein and Tesla as believers, but that happened long ago, since then science and technology advanced a lot, we have computers, now AI, more and more people become more skeptic like my mom about the past especially about faith often saying "Oh come on, wake up! it's 2019 not 200, we have computer, Artificial Intelligence, who does still believe in spirituality stuff that is not backed up by anything? Those were brought up by ancients as they didn't have explanations. After death will be like before birth a.k.a nothing"

I mentioned Einstein and Tesla because while they were giants of science in their time they were still very Spiritual - and Tesla was probably the most Spiritual of them because his Spirituality influenced his science. That doesn't mean people of science today are not Spiritual any more, many of them are but since many of the public figures are talking about science, their beliefs seldom appear.

Very often our parents pass on energy patterns or are instrumental in the creation of our early paradigms that stay with us long into childhood. So the next guess is that the reason you created this thread was to find answers to what your mother said because that she has created a paradigm that you're not entirely comfortable with. I'd also guess that were underlying factors involved in the reasons your mother said what she did. All of those factors were, in their own way, instrumental in bringing you to where you are now.

Spirituality is about you and your beliefs and if your mother is a complete sceptic, that's her choice. You are making your choices but there's at least this forum full of people who would disagree with her. If you are going to follow your beliefs because that's what you think is right for you then by all means follow them because it's what you think you need to do. If you walk away from them because of what your mother has said then the chances are you'll regret it later. If your mother won't talk to you about them, find those that will.

[Claude]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

It's not about their choice, it's about your choice.

My choice about what?

Originally Posted by Greenslade

There is something after physical death and people who have passed over keep their memories and some of their personality, what the 'details' are I doubt anybody really knows.

I believe this as well, but was influenced by my mother, and I don't think I should blame her but me as falling in that trap. That's why I asked if we are programmed to be believers or non-believers.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

It's possible that your mother was abusive because she was frustrated with Life, and in a way what she was perhaps trying to communicate to you was that this is what she was feeling. Often when people are like this, what they're expressing is what they can't deal with on the inside and it's often a cry for help. Sometimes it's genetic so the next question is are you so frustrated with Life that you've turned to Spirituality? If so and you have decided that you don't want to be like your mother then perhaps she's left you a legacy.

Look, I will try give a short background. As you probably imagine, yes I am french. My mother is very frustrated with life, as she had a failed marriage with my dad. My mom was always the possessive aggressive partner in the relation wanting to have control over everything. She became like this because her parents were also abusive to her, so she couldn't control herself but abuse me as well...I am as well frustrated with life, but I promised I will keep my emotions in me , I won't harm my children, I don't want to harm others around me. I am in this situation because of me, so I am to blame...my choices were not so good this life, but hey we all do mistakes, at least they were not fatal, I accept them, I embrace them, but my mother does not. Fast forward a bit, my mom worked as a Chemical Engineer in a factory and now she is teaching physics in Highschool. She is the ultimate skeptic regarding spirituality, she made me sad always denying saying "Oh Claude, those are ancient beliefs, who does still believe in this? Do you remember how it was before being born? It will be the same after death".
We once passed near a sunflower field she would say" See this field? A lot of buried people made this land so fertile, that's the life cycle", I was a kid and started crying because she was too cringey for me to handle.

She affected me even recently as my dad's mom died recently due to Dementia (Alzheimer) complications and before my grandma would die she would say: "See how she is? She is just a veggie, her computer (brain) got wrecked and this is evidence that when we die we turn into nothingness but fertilize the land, the bacteria will have a great party", I couldn't hold myself, I went outside the house and started crying...

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I mentioned Einstein and Tesla because while they were giants of science in their time they were still very Spiritual - and Tesla was probably the most Spiritual of them because his Spirituality influenced his science. That doesn't mean people of science today are not Spiritual any more, many of them are but since many of the public figures are talking about science, their beliefs seldom appear.

Very often our parents pass on energy patterns or are instrumental in the creation of our early paradigms that stay with us long into childhood. So the next guess is that the reason you created this thread was to find answers to what your mother said because that she has created a paradigm that you're not entirely comfortable with. I'd also guess that were underlying factors involved in the reasons your mother said what she did. All of those factors were, in their own way, instrumental in bringing you to where you are now.

Yes she was and is always frustrated with life and to have control of everything I just wondered if she was programmed to do so in order for me to have the lesson of suffering or if she did this by own choice. I think the latter is more plausible, because her parents did the same to her, but she couldn't abstain from doing this to me...

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Spirituality is about you and your beliefs and if your mother is a complete sceptic, that's her choice. You are making your choices but there's at least this forum full of people who would disagree with her. If you are going to follow your beliefs because that's what you think is right for you then by all means follow them because it's what you think you need to do. If you walk away from them because of what your mother has said then the chances are you'll regret it later. If your mother won't talk to you about them, find those that will.

I want to follow my belief as that there is an afterlife where souls review their life and come back for other lessons, but my mom has evidence for everything..... For example when I told her "Ok my grandma has Alzheimer so what? This does not mean her soul is "wrecked" She started saying "Oooh but the brain is wrecked, she doesen't even recognize you, don't you see?" Then I told her "Look you were in your mom's womb, or 1 year of age, do you remember anything without being influenced?", she said "No, but the brain was still in development as you know"... and then I was shut down, I didn't want to continue an argument...

Originally Posted by Claude

My choice about what?

About your 'programming', but what you're talking about is Life's Purpose/Karmic Agreements.

Originally Posted by Claude

I believe this as well, but was influenced by my mother, and I don't think I should blame her but me as falling in that trap. That's why I asked if we are programmed to be believers or non-believers.

Your mother is 'programmed' to be the way she is for her own Soul's development, to put it simply.

Originally Posted by Claude

Look, I will try give a short background. As you probably imagine, yes I am french. My mother is very frustrated with life, as she had a failed marriage with my dad. My mom was always the possessive aggressive partner in the relation wanting to have control over everything. She became like this because her parents were also abusive to her, so she couldn't control herself but abuse me as well...I am as well frustrated with life, but I promised I will keep my emotions in me , I won't harm my children, I don't want to harm others around me. I am in this situation because of me, so I am to blame...my choices were not so good this life, but hey we all do mistakes, at least they were not fatal, I accept them, I embrace them, but my mother does not. Fast forward a bit, my mom worked as a Chemical Engineer in a factory and now she is teaching physics in Highschool. She is the ultimate skeptic regarding spirituality, she made me sad always denying saying "Oh Claude, those are ancient beliefs, who does still believe in this? Do you remember how it was before being born? It will be the same after death".
We once passed near a sunflower field she would say" See this field? A lot of buried people made this land so fertile, that's the life cycle", I was a kid and started crying because she was too cringey for me to handle.

She affected me even recently as my dad's mom died recently due to Dementia (Alzheimer) complications and before my grandma would die she would say: "See how she is? She is just a veggie, her computer (brain) got wrecked and this is evidence that when we die we turn into nothingness but fertilize the land, the bacteria will have a great party", I couldn't hold myself, I went outside the house and started crying...

Thanks for the background because it puts so much into context. I did guess that English wasn't your primary languge but you're doing well. To put it simply it sounds as though your mother is a bitter woman and she's taking her bitterness out on you. If her parents were abusive to her then what's she's doing is passing that onto you. It loooks very like she has a distaste for Spirituality that seems to be hoping she can dissuade you from following your beliefs, as though it's something 'evil'.

Originally Posted by Claude

Yes she was and is always frustrated with life and to have control of everything I just wondered if she was programmed to do so in order for me to have the lesson of suffering or if she did this by own choice. I think the latter is more plausible, because her parents did the same to her, but she couldn't abstain from doing this to me...

If Life's Purpose/Karmic Obligations is anything to go by then yes, your grandmother would have made her choices, then your mother, then you. Some would say it was all random and Free Will, nothing about Spirit choices at all but then if that's the case, how does that affect being a believer? As for it being her own choice that's true, but then if that's what she was taught by her mother and didn't know any better?

Originally Posted by Claude

I want to follow my belief as that there is an afterlife where souls review their life and come back for other lessons, but my mom has evidence for everything..... For example when I told her "Ok my grandma has Alzheimer so what? This does not mean her soul is "wrecked" She started saying "Oooh but the brain is wrecked, she doesen't even recognize you, don't you see?" Then I told her "Look you were in your mom's womb, or 1 year of age, do you remember anything without being influenced?", she said "No, but the brain was still in development as you know"... and then I was shut down, I didn't want to continue an argument...

If that's what you want to believe then follow your heart, don't be discouraged by your mother. And your mother doesn't have all the answers either. If you are alive you are conscious so0 that's not in question, what is in question is what you were conscious of. Even someone with Alzheimer's is conscious of something, just the same as my mother is conscious even though she has dementia - and it's still a Journey for the Soul.

[Claude]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

About your 'programming', but what you're talking about is Life's Purpose/Karmic Agreements.


Your mother is 'programmed' to be the way she is for her own Soul's development, to put it simply.

So she decided to be abusive before birth as part of contract?

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Thanks for the background because it puts so much into context. I did guess that English wasn't your primary languge but you're doing well. To put it simply it sounds as though your mother is a bitter woman and she's taking her bitterness out on you. If her parents were abusive to her then what's she's doing is passing that onto you. It loooks very like she has a distaste for Spirituality that seems to be hoping she can dissuade you from following your beliefs, as though it's something 'evil'.

Yes you are right, she always is eye-rolling whenever I say something about spirituality she seems bored and pised off. My grandparents (her parents) weren't like this anti-spiritual, but religious...So I don't know what to say, my mom just copied her parents in terms of abusive behavior and frustration but not beliefs

Originally Posted by Greenslade

If Life's Purpose/Karmic Obligations is anything to go by then yes, your grandmother would have made her choices, then your mother, then you. Some would say it was all random and Free Will, nothing about Spirit choices at all but then if that's the case, how does that affect being a believer? As for it being her own choice that's true, but then if that's what she was taught by her mother and didn't know any better?

I don't know how would affect being a believer by having own choice, sorry
She is the type of complete sceptic about spirituality, since she was an engineer and now physicist she is materialistic says these all are fairytales and wants proof for everything.
Whatever you tell her she says "there is no back up for this, is just ancient beliefs, come on it's 2019, we have computers, internet" even if I try tell her that she doesen't remember being in womb or 1 year old she says "Yes my memory part of brain wasn't completed". She says she has proof that there is nothing after death, and the proof is that my paternal grandma didn't even recognize me in late-stage Alzheimer... it was horrible to see her suffering, she could barely move

Originally Posted by Greenslade

If that's what you want to believe then follow your heart, don't be discouraged by your mother. And your mother doesn't have all the answers either. If you are alive you are conscious so0 that's not in question, what is in question is what you were conscious of. Even someone with Alzheimer's is conscious of something, just the same as my mother is conscious even though she has dementia - and it's still a Journey for the Soul.

Thanks, I try to follow my heart indeed, I was always conscious of myself, perhaps my grandma (mom of dad was as well). I am just sad that I don't know if my mom behaves like this because of her own choice due to frustration or if it was by pre-birth contract. I also don't know what will happen to her soul after death if it's the latter (own choice). After her death will she still have the same perception as now? Will she be the one to judge herself? If she judges herself after death with same perception as now, at judgement she won't have any regrets

No matter how much she abused me and how much she is frustrated...I love her she is my mum

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Claude

Is it possible that before incarnation or reincarnation when the soul contract is made that some people choose not to be believers and narrow minded in the upcoming earthly life ? I guess once they would start their earthly life, they would be programmed to be non-believers


Why would they choose to be non-believers before starting their reincarnation? How would that affect their spiritual development?

I read some theories saying that it might benefit others, that this trade off would leave the individual focused on helping humanity, but that would be by materalistic inventions and not by spirituality .

Furthermore do criminals, rapists , thieves also have pre-contracts to affect people here on Earth by murdering, raping, stealing, or is that part of anyone's choice as free will? If they do it by own choice, what happens to their soul after death? Their vibration lowers?

Don't know what to say. Looking forward to your opinions

It doesn't make sense, does it? There must be a better explanation.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Claude

I agree that we speculate to explain and create our own realities, none of them being wrong, but at the end of the day all our speculations are converging to the same destination. I believe that these speculations are different roads pathways that converge to the same final destination of spirituality. As in a multiple choice test, we all have different answers, once the test is done and we transition in the afterlife we will find the test answers. We will see what happens after we die I guess, we will find out then the truth in the afterlife

To make the most of our lives, we have to learn the purpose for man came here on Earth. If we don't, we just waste the opportunity. We can't rationalize that purpose because we have neither enough information, nor enough judgement power.

Speculations lead us nowhere. Turn toward inside, leave behind all biases and emotions, ask, open to receive answers. Don't rationalize the answers!

Originally Posted by Claude

So she decided to be abusive before birth as part of contract?

Again it's down the personal beliefs but the two of you would have agreed to that, your mother as the abuser and you as the one being abused. If you want a reason for that agreement, here you are in a thread you yourself started and with everything that's running around in your head. And just right now I don't need the details because they'll get in the way for the time being but... What's next? Cause and effect. There's been a chain of cause and effect and I'd guess it started at least with your grandparents, and here you are now.

The question right now is how are you going to respond? You've already said that you're going to follow your heart's desire, but you still have to deal with the relationship between you and your mother, how you feel about her and how your Spirituality is between the two of you.

I'd guess by what you've said that your mother's had some kind of disagreement with religion/Spirituality, something's triggered her bitterness so if you're still keen to talk to her about Spirituality I'd suggest talking to her about what happened.

Originally Posted by Claude

Yes you are right, she always is eye-rolling whenever I say something about spirituality she seems bored and pised off. My grandparents (her parents) weren't like this anti-spiritual, but religious...So I don't know what to say, my mom just copied her parents in terms of abusive behavior and frustration but not beliefs

Right, that figures why your mom is against Spirituality, she might see that as a part of the problem as to why your grandparents were the way they were to her, and she's passing that 'down the line' because she doesn't know any better.

Originally Posted by Claude

I don't know how would affect being a believer by having own choice, sorry
She is the type of complete sceptic about spirituality, since she was an engineer and now physicist she is materialistic says these all are fairytales and wants proof for everything.
Whatever you tell her she says "there is no back up for this, is just ancient beliefs, come on it's 2019, we have computers, internet" even if I try tell her that she doesen't remember being in womb or 1 year old she says "Yes my memory part of brain wasn't completed". She says she has proof that there is nothing after death, and the proof is that my paternal grandma didn't even recognize me in late-stage Alzheimer... it was horrible to see her suffering, she could barely move

Here you are, in this thread. That's how it all plays out or unfolds for you and your choice. Again it's not about other people but yourself.

It sounds very much as though your mother's bitterness is very deep-rooted and I'd guess there was a pretty serious incident that caused it - it certainly didn't come out of nowhere. And scientifically, what your mother cites as proof is old news as far as research goes. More recent scientific research tends to point to consciousness or something living on after physical death and other research seems to say that there is indeed an afterlife of some kind.

Originally Posted by Claude

No matter how much she abused me and how much she is frustrated...I love her she is my mum

I've moved this up one for a reason, because this is the mother of realisations. It's not about having beliefs or not, it's not about being Spiritual or not because there is a Spirituality beyond Spirituality and this is it - that despite the differences between you and your mother, after all the abuse and everything else you find Love for her in your heart, not hate. This is the reality, not the beliefs. Because of this realisation, what else have you found? The Love for one thing but compassion, hope that one day you and your mother might reconcile, forgiveness, understanding...?

Originally Posted by Claude

Thanks, I try to follow my heart indeed, I was always conscious of myself, perhaps my grandma (mom of dad was as well). I am just sad that I don't know if my mom behaves like this because of her own choice due to frustration or if it was by pre-birth contract. I also don't know what will happen to her soul after death if it's the latter (own choice). After her death will she still have the same perception as now? Will she be the one to judge herself? If she judges herself after death with same perception as now, at judgement she won't have any regrets

Having beliefs means we don't know for certainty, although we might be certain of our beliefs the only thing we are really certain of is having them, not that they are true. The only way you're going to find out why your mother behaves this way is to ask her, but how we treat our children is largely learned from our parents treat us. I did say 'largely' because you can break the cycle when you have children of your own.

Any reasons for it happening other than what your mother might give you are beliefs, so pick what resonates best with you. Your grandparents would have had their pre-birth contracts (if you want to use that term) to have their individual experiences so they could be the people they were when they met. As part of their contract your mother would have agreed to be a part of that as you would have made the contract to be here now. All the Lives are interconnected so the contracts would have been agreed by all parties with that connectivity in mind. It's not very Spirit jargon but it makes it clearer.

There is also a very human side to all of this too, in that your grandparents being religious and your mother's seeming 'reaction' to that has led her to be bitter and cynical, which leads you to starting this thread and everything that has happened before. That much you do know, but as to it happening because of beliefs in pre-birth agreements is up to you. The understanding of how the way your grandparents are, how they made your mother the way she is, how all of that has made you the way you are.... That's the Spirituality beyond the Spirituality of beliefs. I've been down this road before with people who have staunch beliefs, and because of their beliefs they just don't get it because they're too closed minded.

I was physically abused by my step-father to the stage where my personality 'fractured' as a safety mechanism because I couldn't deal with it. As a result of that I'm a better person because of it and that has affected so many people and made their Lives better in often small ways, and that has lead to them making the Lives of those they touch a little better. I've forgiven him and moved on so here we are today.

If I had the choice I'd do it all over again just the way it was. I would have made a pre-birth agreement to forget I'd made the agreement and suffered the abuse anyway, just so I could make those changes in people's Lives. I believe that the Universe would have found a way to make the changes in their Lives even if I'd never existed, but the point is that I made them. It doesn't make me feel like God and I don't want a prize. In understanding the 'process' I have more prize than I could wish for, because that's something money can't buy.

What would be a stronger Spirituality? Would it be having beliefs that are at odds with what's going on, or would it be Loving your mother despite beliefs and being able to turn your hurts into halos? Because if you still Love your mother after all that, a halo is what you deserve.