Is Spirituality about you and your happiness only?

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

JustBe, I've read a few of your posts (more properly your discussions that always bring forth wisdoms about the way life proceeds, it's flow if you like, and the continual blossoming of awareness as we assimilate our experiences) and one of your big strengths, if you'll pardon me saying so, is your equanimity. "It's how it is."

The question that opened this thread is effectively answered by your commentary. I still believe that spiritual development = self development and this inevitably involves exchange with others, hopefully on more occasions to mutual advantage. Spirituality is still about the aims of the aspirant and - well - equanimity and the level of importance the person attaches to inner peace. Helping others is a more complex question. Is one helping them be lazy? Is one supporting them in times of emotional or financial crisis? Is self-gratification behind a desire to help (in particular circumstances)? Is it just that the aspirant is a naturally charitable person who rushes forward when someone is struggling?
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Hi lorelyen

Equanimity is probably come about through a willingness to dive in and learn about myself with those all important connections with others. I am also a highly sensitive person and empath, so these aspects tend to lend me a deeper self aware balance. Simply because almost everything not torn apart in me will if it needs to be. Once upon a time, I had an off switch, nowadays nature is my off switch..;)

As for your insightful comments at the end. Yes I feel the same as you. In the helper role, I’ve tended to drop roles in myself to simply see the potential of active engagement with many various folk. My leading processor is intuition, so often things are happening in ways (because I’m more clear and open) where it leads the way. Sometimes the question or sharing becomes what the shared space may need to relate too, without me in the way imposing. Intuition is a good tool for personal relating in this way, because often all those questions have already been answered, by the realized self.

Originally Posted by Altair

Anyway.. just read this article.. an interesting read about the folly that is chasing happiness..
Not really related to the more selfish aspect of chasing our happiness but still worthwhile to read..

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ality#comments

It's a pretty telling article, that. There are times when the Grun comes up with something "spiritually" informative. I'd second your recommendation for anyone involved on a path toward this Holy Grail.

"In other words, all the things we naturally shy away from and spend a huge amount of time and painful mental effort denying or trying not to think about."

To me it goes a little beyond - the folly of trying to change (which many would hope, means "improve") the human condition as a whole.
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Originally Posted by Altair

It seems you are unwilling to acknowledge that spirituality too is about individual pleasure and joy. There is nithing wrong with it being so, but denial of this and imagining you’re somehow not doing it for yourself is delusional.

Thanks for your kind comments.

JL

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Sometimes it's all people have and seeing it in others means there's a chance it can happen for us too. It's surprising what can rub off on each other.

Yes - interconnectedness is real. Group karma...I remember hearing a phrase "not doing something is also doing something". Every moment we choose. External/internal - it's all related.

Just got me thinking

JL

Originally Posted by Greenslade

It's called kamma-vipka in Hinduism. Kamma is intention and kamma-vipaka is the result of intention - but neither positive nor negative.

Buddhism same but recognizes there is dark and bright results.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

This is where a lot of Spiritual people fall down, because being enlightened and being happy are rewards.

I don't know, I know quite a lot of people in spiritual circles in real life who are very nice. Forums seem to bring out the more insufferable of us

But agree, not expecting a return in giving, is a high form of praise.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

The road to hell is paved with good intentions when it doesn't get past the ideology.

I think it's when someone is still deluded themselves. Still, always nice to lend a helping hand or smile/energy in this world - God knows we need it.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

The best way of expressing what you're looking for some from the movies, "Never leave a man behind." We're not at home until we're all home. There's a far greater Spirituality happening when you help others to become more Spiritual because you're doing it for a wider benefit. Similarly with happiness but the ones that tend to work harder for the happiness of others are the ones who have the empathy born of personal experience.

Empathy. Of course.

Namaste

JL

Originally Posted by janielee

Yes - interconnectedness is real. Group karma...I remember hearing a phrase "not doing something is also doing something". Every moment we choose. External/internal - it's all related.

Just got me thinking

JL

I'm not a huge fan of karma to be honest, it's another word that's been reinterpreted to mean many different things. The original Sanskrit translated to "action."


Certainly interconnected and to the person who isn't happy it can be inspiration and/or hope - or just plain glad that happiness exists. I heard something similar - non-action is an action, no choice is a choice.

Can't help wonder how much of the wisdom contained in this thread comes from 'real Life'. Just saying.

Oh, and one plus one equals three - like internal and external - but few want to get their heads around that kind of math.

Originally Posted by janielee

Buddhism same but recognizes there is dark and bright results.

The light and dark is more subjective experience and usually means 'like' and 'dislike', one of the concepts that has never been fully explained by those that hold it as a Universal Law.

Originally Posted by janielee

I don't know, I know quite a lot of people in spiritual circles in real life who are very nice. Forums seem to bring out the more insufferable of us

But agree, not expecting a return in giving, is a high form of praise.

People don't do anything for nothing - ask Pavlov's dogs, but like everything else it depends on the individual. I tend to notice patterns and often Spirituality is very much akin to going to church every Sunday and raising those vibrations, sometimes the more things change the more they stay the same. Similarly with what comes out in the forums, there are those that do so love their masks and the anonymity just like any other forum. It's one of the reasons I don't use the word 'Spiritual' to describe myself or anything else, it's just another division that we don't need.

"Sometimes people are just people. man."

It's been said that religion is for those who are afraid of going to hell and Spirituality is or those that have been there. There are also some things you can only understand through personal experience - empathy for those that have been to hell is one of them.

Praise tastes so much sweeter when it comes un-looked for and results are where you find them.

Originally Posted by janielee

I think it's when someone is still deluded themselves. Still, always nice to lend a helping hand or smile/energy in this world - God knows we need it.

Either deluded or simply haven't thought things through enough. A smile costs nothing but it can save a Life.

Originally Posted by janielee

Empathy. Of course.

Namaste

JL

Empathy yes, as well as.... It also relates to subjects such as happiness, ascended and a few others. People can feel 'left behind' when it comes to being happy, they can see others and think that somehow Life has forgotten them. It's the same with Spiritual development, there's a headlong rush to raise the vibes and those that can't keep up fall by the wayside. The devil take the hindmost. It's not a nice place to be. But when your happiness is making other people happy, when your enlightenment is helping others to become enlightened because you know that deep down somewhere, you know you're not 'there' until we're all 'here'.

This is the sentiment and understanding that's missing in this thread, IMHO, and the sentiment I think you're looking for. When one can walk away and leave someone by the wayside on the road to happiness? It's not a nice feeling, being left behind.

[Emm]

Originally Posted by janielee

Reflecting on recent events, and the posts and contributions of the good people on this forum, it occurs to me that some people see spirituality as "about me."

"My wealth"
"My experiences"
"My dreams"
"My growth"
"My wow-moments"
"My insights"

Anyone see spirituality related to helping "others" - our fellow brothers and sisters, peace in the world, narratives etc.

How do you see spirituality and it place in doing something that relates to the word "service"?

Thanks

JL

(This is a repost)

In my experience spirituality is personal, you can't give it to someone no matter how much help you give. You can't teach it exactly but I guess you can lay down some truths and when they are ready, in the 'right place within' it makes sense to them.

As for service...if you feel its something you like to do because its your passion and feel joy in the process then go ahead. But if you become internally resentful or self righteous then its not of any use to you, you've lost your connection to that place of inner peace where all spiritual understanding comes from.

It seems we are made to feel guilty about finding our own path to joy, but without being in that place you're of no help to yourself or anyone else anyway. Showing people there is no shame in being happy is a way of service I guess...you help to break down the barriers that get in the way of connection.