What worries me about Hinduism.

Originally Posted by Honza

Hinduism has taught me the importance of self respect, the truth of the Universal "I", and that I Am God.

However where it worries me is that in Hinduism there is no "you". There are no others. Everything is my own self. That worries me because I am so used to treating everyone else as their own self and as real people in their own right.

Hinduism also has no real "we are", since you are not real then "we are" cannot be either.

Finally Hinduism has no objective God who has the last say on any matter. Everything is ones OWN self in Hinduism and not an objective reality in its own right.

So I have learned that I AM. But I cling onto my Western understanding of others and a separate and objective God.

Haven't you ever heard of the cafeteria catholics, taking the beliefs they like, and passing on others. Well, I won't argue whether they are real catholics or not, but it seems like a good way to eat to me. You could think of hinduism like the all you can eat buffet lunch special at your local Indian restaurant. You might start with chicken makhani, then try some chicken tikka masala, and when you develop some tolerance go on to taste the chicken vindaloo. Unless of course you are vegetarian, but there are options for that too. Just eat what doesn't give you too much gas for now and try something new each time. I find this is a good approach to any religion. Though most religions have a few key ingredients of truth within them, sometimes those ingredients can be hard to recognize when too much spice has been added by the human chef.

Now I'm getting hungry.

[OPVerma]

Originally Posted by Honza

Hinduism has taught me the importance of self respect, the truth of the Universal "I", and that I Am God.

However where it worries me is that in Hinduism there is no "you". There are no others. Everything is my own self. That worries me because I am so used to treating everyone else as their own self and as real people in their own right.

Hinduism also has no real "we are", since you are not real then "we are" cannot be either.

Finally Hinduism has no objective God who has the last say on any matter. Everything is ones OWN self in Hinduism and not an objective reality in its own right.

So I have learned that I AM. But I cling onto my Western understanding of others and a separate and objective God.

It is really surprising that your understanding of Hinduism seems to be a jugglery of words that is far from reality. While the Western understanding or Christianity focus on virtues of Love , Mercy, and Charity, Hinduism focuses on 26 virtues including these three. Hinduism stresses on cultivation of these virtues and doing good Karma to get liberation from birth and death cycle.

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by Honza

Hinduism has taught me the importance of self respect, the truth of the Universal "I", and that I Am God.

However where it worries me is that in Hinduism there is no "you". There are no others. Everything is my own self. That worries me because I am so used to treating everyone else as their own self and as real people in their own right.

Hinduism also has no real "we are", since you are not real then "we are" cannot be either.

Finally Hinduism has no objective God who has the last say on any matter. Everything is ones OWN self in Hinduism and not an objective reality in its own right.

So I have learned that I AM. But I cling onto my Western understanding of others and a separate and objective God.

The Shivalingam is considered to be a divine pillar or point of light in Hinduism, which corresponds to the idea of Allah, Ahura Mazda, Jehovah, Bahá in other religions as a separate and objective God.

Theoretically speaking, this may be how a personal God emerges from the impersonal Brahman !


As per the ancient Rig Veda...

Prajñānam brahma - Brahman is pure consciousness (Aitareya Upanishad 3.3 of the Rig Veda)

This implies that Brahman or Spirit is of the nature of pure consciousness.

Nirguna Brahman is pure consciousness of an impersonal nature.


Saguna Brahman is pure consciousness of a personal nature.


Paramahansa Yogananda states thus: "The word 'God' means the manifested, transcendental Being beyond creation, but existing in relation to creation. Spirit existed before God. God is the Creator of the universe, but Spirit is the Creator of God."

Here Spirit stands for Nirguna Brahman, while God stands for Saguna Brahman. Nirguna means attributeless , formless and impersonal. Saguna means with attributes, qualities, form and personalized nature.

Nirguna Brahman is pure consciousness of an impersonal nature, while God as Saguna Brahman and the jivatman or soul are pure consciousness of a personalised nature, with the Jivatman in bondage due to karma. This bondage, when hacked off through spiritual exercises and meditation, results in the soul or jivatman being purified of karma and regaining its original state as pure consciousness.

In the yogic philosophy, the Shivalingam as Saguna Brahman is considered the first form to arise when creation occurs, and also the last form before the dissolution of creation.

The Shivalingam is considered as the greatest personification of Saguna Brahman, and was worshipped by the likes of the Avatars Rama and Krishna themselves.

An oval shaped stone is worshipped as a symbol of God or Shivalingam in Shaivite temples. The Vedas and Shaivite scriptures consider the Shivalingam to a be a cosmic pillar or point of light. Another name for the Shivalingam is Jyotirlingam with Jyoti meaning light.

As per the monotheistic religious sect called the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, the form of the Shiva lingam denotes God as a point of light.

I have created a thread in this regard showing the correlation between God and light in various world religions.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...d.php?t=127748

The Prajapita Brahmakumaris associate the Shivalingam with Jehovah, Allah and Ahura Mazda of the other monotheistic religions.

The Prajapita Brahmakumaris is also the only spiritual organisation in the world run by women leaders, administrators and teachers. They have teaching centres in almost every country around the world where they teach 7 day courses on yogic philosophy and meditation free of charge.

Originally Posted by Honza

Finally Hinduism has no objective God who has the last say on any matter. Everything is ones OWN self in Hinduism and not an objective reality in its own right.

So I have learned that I AM. But I cling onto my Western understanding of others and a separate and objective God.

So, as mentioned earlier, the Shivalingam can satisfy your religious understanding of a separate and objective God, which would be more easier to focus and meditate upon.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

This is so...it just cannot be done.

Hinduism is more than just dry philosophy...of trying to understand the concepts therein through rationality, even though rationality is the basis of Hinduism.

It takes a "heart knowledge" or an experiential feeling, which ONLY a Hindu can understand and therefore, you have nothing to worry about Hinduism or the precepts therein if you are not a Hindu...and if you are, you will understand what I am saying and where I am coming from.
Aum Namah Shivaya

Agree Big Time about it requiring 'heart knowledge', but as far as needing to be a Hindu to understand...

I came about that understanding through a decade of obsessively digging into consciousness and from many different aspects and disciplines - religions (both Eastern & Western), spirituality, philosophy (both Eastern & Western), neuroscience, psychology and physics - and it slowly marinating over the years and decades. I know it's one heck of an odd combination but for me they all contain at least one, if not several, signposts all pointing in the same direction.

For me the keys that unlocked the damn and released the floodwaters was a combination of Buddhist meditation and Advaita Vedanta philosophy.

This coming from someone who grew up in a second generation Italian American family and attended 12 years of Catholic school.

"Earth, moon, stars and sun revolve inside me" ~ Baba Muktananda

And everyone else too because at the core we're all one in the same. That timeless and boundless sea of infinite silence and incomprehensible intelligence and creativity.

[handy guy]

it can easily blow the mind in trying to make direct correlations across Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, etc.. The main point of the Upanishads is that the Self is not a thing or form (or a thing of the mind or a form of the mind) All particular beings/souls have forms of some kind or another, including the refined forms of the Gods and if same identify as those forms then that is not the freedom of the "Self" or true "I" which is beyond any particular identities including even that of the gods. A Self realized Master put this way, "The Self is the Soul of souls" which btw. and to me in no way is in the denial of souls. (a problem with some interpretations of Buddhism that can lead to nihilism) Good fortune to you...

[handy guy]

duplicate?

[Altair]

Originally Posted by handy guy

it can easily blow the mind in trying to make direct correlations across Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, etc.. The main point of the Upanishads is that the Self is not a thing or form (or a thing of the mind or a form of the mind) All particular beings/souls have forms of some kind or another, including the refined forms of the Gods and if same identify as those forms then that is not the freedom of the "Self" or true "I" which is beyond any particular identities including even that of the gods. A Self realized Master put this way, "The Self is the Soul of souls" which btw. and to me in no way is in the denial of souls. (a problem with some interpretations of Buddhism that can lead to nihilism) Good fortune to you...

These have exactly been my understandings of various eastern scriptures/concepts, where 'soul' is no form or thing, doesn't change as it has no desires or need to ''grow'' into something. It is the temporary identity that seeks to grow closer to 'soul', but it's understood that eventually that part must be shed too. Everything that does grow, changes or takes form is matter.