How do you Forgive and let go?

It's easy to pretend it's resolved by looking at it as simple cause and effect but it's never that simple. The worst case is claiming "you brought it on yourself by existing" but that isn't useful in assuaging hurts.
(To me it comes down to practicalities in the end.)
Even our laws and judiciary attempt to ascribe blame, itself sometimes turning into a complicated process (occasionally riddled with injustice). Forgivable situations and the people involved are individual. Taking the case of rape. At knifepoint it can hardly be blamed on the victim provided they weren't doing anything to incite it. But for females absolutely drunk of a weekend night the issue is moot.

Forgiving is a peculiar thing in a way. Why should anyone think they can forgive?
Why should anyone feel entitled to forgive?
To make themselves feel better?

How do you 'pluck from the memory a rooted sorrow,
Raze out the written troubles of a brain....
And with some sweet oblivious antidote
Cleanse the stuffed bosom of that perilous stuff
Which weighs upon the heart?'

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Looks like it's just a difference in the way we live. It's rarely an issue as I'm not often put on a spot where forgiving is needed. If something affects me badly I might think of retribution - it does rebalance after all.
If it doesn't affect me too much then it won't matter for long. I get this retribution thing from early adolescence when I had good reason to despise my parents over a few isolated incidents and was glad of a chance of some equalisation. Long in the past now.

The reason people seek retribution is because they haven't resolved the pain that the actions of another have triggered in them - if they had, they wouldn't feel the need of retribution. And it might feel momentarily satisfying to exact revenge, but in reality that pain is still there, under the surface (it can be hard to detect because it tends to be buried under a lot of negativity in the form of anger, resentment, denial, etc. - all just unconscious attempts to not feel the pain).

What does seeking retribution actually achieve? Does it lessen your feelings of animosity towards the one you adjudge to have wronged you? Does it make you feel any more loving or compassionate? Does it diminish the underlying pain even one iota? Or does it simply generate more pain and enmity in the collective consciousness?

Don't disagree with what you say, subject to it depending on our individual makeup. Some may be prone to burying pain and as you say, retribution doesn't help them too much although it should give them some sense of just-desserts but there are those who just feel better knowing that some moral justice has been done. Things have evened out. If that doesn't assuage some hurt then it hasn't been enough. So yes, it reduces animosity, should eliminate it.

Doesn't mean every slight needs retibution. It's a matter of what's necessary to let them back into ones firmament if they once had a place there. If they're sorry and genuinely contrite then that's ok to me.
I'm not one to be a doormat though.

[froebellian]

Learning to forgive and let go is a lesson that all souls learn at different levels, and it's not easy. In time you may find that you will miss the things you lost or the people that are no longer around, but you will have memories of them.

You have to find your own way of coping with it and then accepting that forgiveness takes time. Words are one thing, but forgiveness is a process whereby you mourn, accept, and then let go. It can take decades for some, but being able to forgive doesn't mean you are a better or more spiritual person but that you are able to come to terms with what has happened more readily.

Forgiving isn't about being a doormat. It's not about condoning either.

Forgiving is a decision to no longer let yourself be defined by pain and anger. That is what you 'let go' of, so that you can grow into a better place.

That is the utility of forgiveness.

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Don't disagree with what you say, subject to it depending on our individual makeup. Some may be prone to burying pain and as you say, retribution doesn't help them too much although it should give them some sense of just-desserts but there are those who just feel better knowing that some moral justice has been done. Things have evened out. If that doesn't assuage some hurt then it hasn't been enough. So yes, it reduces animosity, should eliminate it.

Doesn't mean every slight needs retibution. It's a matter of what's necessary to let them back into ones firmament if they once had a place there. If they're sorry and genuinely contrite then that's ok to me.
I'm not one to be a doormat though.

Maybe we'll have to agree to differ, my sense of it is that there is always pain at the root of the desire for retribution, though as I say it might not always be easily detectable on first inspection. I appreciate your perspective though, it's given me something to ponder.

With regards to your second paragraph, I agree that certain conditions need to be met if we're to allow back into our firmament the one has betrayed our trust in whatever way. Though forgiveness is still possible even if we deem that those conditions haven't been met.

Kioma and froebellian, I fully agree with the points you both make and I thought you expressed your points very well.

Originally Posted by Kioma

Forgiving isn't about being a doormat. It's not about condoning either.

Forgiving is a decision to no longer let yourself be defined by pain and anger. That is what you 'let go' of, so that you can grow into a better place.

That is the utility of forgiveness.

Depends entirely on your usage. "Forgive" can be both a transitive and intransitive verb though I can't think of its intransitive use. Maybe if you just say "I forgive" with no actual or implied predicate but is that feasible? Forgiving someone something or forgiving something is its common use so maybe it's just a quirk definition in spiritual circles where the object is effectively an abstract (i.e. it matters not how they react).

As I see it, what you describe is "letting go" - rendering an issue no longer relevant to your emotions (presumably) so you no longer feel the pain. Your interpretation is no less valid. Like I said up there, it's how you run your life.

If you really have never seen someone become a doormat by forgiving someone something they later do again I'd be very surprised. I have. Several times.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Kioma

Forgiving isn't about being a doormat. It's not about condoning either.

Forgiving is a decision to no longer let yourself be defined by pain and anger. That is what you 'let go' of, so that you can grow into a better place.

That is the utility of forgiveness.

What if you aren't defined by pain & anger?

I believe that some of these ideas were promoted by monks who did nothing all day but contemplate existence. Retribution could be as simple as finding out who the culprit is & holding them accountable.

They maybe your trusting friend to your face, how can you begin to understand unless you seek answers. The friend might have awful debt or drug problems that you are blind to or they may feel empowered by getting away with it & hurt someone far more vulnerable because of it.

Negative may come from doing nothing, who knows?

If the theft eats away at you then perhaps it is became your subconscious knows something ...

Your lesson maybe that you are too trusting or that there were warning signs that you ignored but the niggling feeling isn't necessarily just anger related.

The victim in any situation has suffered - let's not forget that its only human to not wish to suffer & to naturally question why ..

.

Originally Posted by A human Being

Maybe we'll have to agree to differ, my sense of it is that there is always pain at the root of the desire for retribution, though as I say it might not always be easily detectable on first inspection. I appreciate your perspective though, it's given me something to ponder.

With regards to your second paragraph, I agree that certain conditions need to be met if we're to allow back into our firmament the one has betrayed our trust in whatever way. Though forgiveness is still possible even if we deem that those conditions haven't been met.

I've no problem with that. In spiritual circles we can't always expect to agree. In that, I'm a bit of a loner here though I do take notice of others' views.

But.... thank you for the response.

Originally Posted by knightoflenity

What if you aren't defined by pain & anger?

I believe that some of these ideas were promoted by monks who did nothing all day but contemplate existence. Retribution could be as simple as finding out who the culprit is & holding them accountable.

They maybe your trusting friend to your face, how can you begin to understand unless you seek answers. The friend might have awful debt or drug problems that you are blind to or they may feel empowered by getting away with it & hurt someone far more vulnerable because of it.
.

Agreed. I tried to venture such views through the thread. It's possible in trivial instances although how d'you go about it? Is standing there saying "I forgive" likely to ameliorate pain and anger? I described a situation in an earlier incarnation of this subject of one of our zumba girls raped which was enough to drive her into seclusion, but then finding she had been given a potential death sentence, given HIV. She as good as lost the will to live.
I can't think how any amount of "I forgive you" is going to assuage her anger and pain and restore her to a happy, bubbly socialite.