The 'no God' spirituality.

[Honza]

Is it true that there are many people who do not actually believe in God who are spiritual? Maybe here lies the crux of the difference between religion and spirituality? Religion is a firm faith and belief in God. Spirituality is a spiritual practice which aims to help oneself and the human race (but God is not a necessity here).

I find that many people here at SF talk about spirituality but they often fail to include God. There are all sorts of methods mentioned which help this or that in the spiritual sense; but God is somehow omitted.

This is what strikes me about much mysticism - particularly Eastern mysticism. It talks of reaching enlightenment but it somehow circumnavigates talk of God.

I have faith and am a firm believer in God's existence. I'm not talking pure consciousness here or I AM; but rather a living breathing God. Much like a 'super-person'.

I think this may be the reason why I struggle with Eastern mysticism and the New Age.

[secretscribe]

I guess it varies from religion to religion. In Hinduism mythology and God as a character in a story is of central importance, and in Buddhism most of that disappears.

[Baile]

I've been on a spiritual path for 40 years. And I have never believed in God.

[Honza]

Originally Posted by Baile

I've been on a spiritual path for 40 years. And I have never believed in God.

That is the kind of thing I was talking about. We will never be able to agree on spiritual matters because of the difference between our paths. But we can agree to disagree.

[jimrich]

Before entering this discussion or encounter, I'd want to know what your definition is of: god, spirituality, religion, belief, faith, spiritual practice and a few other words and phrases so we are talkng about the same thing. I'll start.........

Originally Posted by Honza

Is it true that there are many people who do not actually believe in God who are spiritual?

I will only speak fofr my self here. I consider myself to be "spiritual" in that I believe in and know of certain spiritual "things". I do not rely on "belief" about a god but my "god" is very different. To me, god is the basic living force or essence of every manifested thing and condition in the Appearance or cosmos. Much of what I want to say invites a lot of semantic problems and confusion so, it's kind of difficult to speak of religion and spirituality without a well defined, common language which I find is rarely held by those who discuss the esoteric or their beliefs
So back to god. For now, I know there is a god. God is the underlying energy or life within all that there is - including inanimate object like rocks and dead things, etc. God has been labeled: Infinite Consciousness, Awareness. the Source, the Absolute, the Self, Life, emptiness, Nothing, Aliveness, Wholeness, Isness,This, That and on and on. I like to say "namelessness", implying that god is un-nameable or ineffable. This may seem INHUMAN and heartless but that's just someone's concept clashing with anothers concept. I could fill a few pages about "god" but on with the show..For me, "spiritual" is about anything that is not consumed by material or psychological features and problems such as: fear, greed, lust, gluttony, ego, Neurosis, war, theft, lying, cheating, drinking, and other base or materialistic activities and conditions. Spiritual folks can also be materialistic and visa versa so I have no absolute values about what is and what isn't "spiritual". I just see spiritual as a higher or finer state of consciousness and interest or goals in life. So I would not include the standard or traditional notion or concept of "god" in with what I currently consider spiritual but rather a spiritual god along with other spiritual concepts and beliefs or knowledge. The god that I currently bow to includes and IS all that there is, including what is and is not spiritual.

Maybe here lies the crux of the difference between religion and spirituality? Religion is a firm faith and belief in God. Spirituality is a spiritual practice which aims to help oneself and the human race (but God is not a necessity here).

To me, religion is an innocent, unquestioning belief in something - usually things said by an authority figure or a book whereas "spirituality" is an inquiry into and a KNOWING about things which may or may not come from an authority figure or a book. Religion is about faith and trust. Spirituality is about proof via direct, personal experiences. They both have the goal of god consciousness or contact so it probably just comes down to which path someone wants to take. Its said that all roads lead to Rome (god).

I find that many people here at SF talk about spirituality but they often fail to include God. There are all sorts of methods mentioned which help this or that in the spiritual sense; but God is somehow omitted.

It's my guess that the word god has been so over used and abused that many folks want something fresher and less troublesome than the worn out term: god. I know I do. I just love the Asian style of giving god a lot of different names and characteristics but even those become tiresome and meaningless over time.

This is what strikes me about much mysticism - particularly Eastern mysticism. It talks of reaching enlightenment but it somehow circumnavigates talk of God.

I see a lot of "talk of god" except that they don't always say "god" but have a wide assortment of terms for what is called god here in the West.

I have faith and am a firm believer in God's existence.

OK, and do you personally KNOW that god exists? Can you say that you personally KNOW god? If yes, what kind of proof can you offer? This is not a challenge ...just a simple, innocent question. I KNOW there is a god but I cannot prove it to anyone else. The god I know of has let me know that it exists and I am satisfied with what I currently know even if it is not explainable or can be proven.

I'm not talking pure consciousness here or I AM; but rather a living breathing God. Much like a 'super-person'.

I am OK with that. My "god" is every person and every thing that exists.

I think this may be the reason why I struggle with Eastern mysticism and the New Age.

To each his own. My god does not demand that anyone accept or acknowledge it but it will gladly accept anyone's love and friendship.

we can agree to disagree.

I don't see how agreeing or disagreeing applies here. I don't need you or anyone to agree with me and I don't need to agree with you or anyone to have
a meaningful discussion. IMO, this is about SHARING - not agreeing or disagreeing. I share my knowledge and experiences here and gladly accept the sharing of others knowledge and experiences. It's a trading of ideas, concepts, life experiences and knowledge.
Thanks for sharing...........
jim

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Honza

That is the kind of thing I was talking about. We will never be able to agree on spiritual matters because of the difference between our paths. But we can agree to disagree.

Sure. Which is why I said "I don't believe in God," and not "There is no God." It leaves others free to believe whatever they wish, without me telling them they're wrong. That way we can discuss without having to agree, or be right. I don't need to be right because the question makes no difference to my spiritual growth. My spiritual path is my inner, moral self-development. I don't think about "God" at all because it doesn't affect my spiritual path. It makes no difference to my spiritual development whether there is a god or not.

[canute]

Anybody read 'The song of mosses' with an open mind?

I will name the name of god. the rock is perfect ,,,, the bit where the rock burns down mountains with fire from below (not quoted)

sounds like the third rock from the sun, once one get's that Idea into ones head, the books of mosses make a lot more sense(unlike my prose!), on the second day,(i was taught that this whole joint was created in 24 hours and man first stood at three and a half minutes to midnight), the great waters? clouds and ground water , the firmament he called heaven is then what we call the biosphere. When I ask a question and drop coins on the table I get straight answers to straight questions 100% accuracy where verifiable, who am I talking to ? well god of course, my best mate. It really confounds the atheists and believer's alike , they would fight over the matches if i was ever tied to the stake!

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Baile

I don't think about "God" at all because it doesn't affect my spiritual path.
It makes no difference to my spiritual development whether there is a god or not.

I did not know this about you. I missed it somehow.
Out of curiosity, do you think of or consider or believe in some sort
of, I don't know how to put it...a consciousness or an intelligence that pervades all that is?
I don't know why I ask? I find people and their beliefs or experiences interesting, I guess. Thanks.

[sky]

Originally Posted by*Baile

I don't think about "God" at all because it doesn't affect my spiritual path.
It makes no difference to my spiritual development whether there is a god or not.


Great minds think alike and Buddha is included ....

[shoni7510]

The topic of God is interesting. First we wonder if there is God and if yes, what is he and there is no common answer. Then we worry about how we should relate to him activily through a religion or passively where he remains in the background. I believe that God is Everything and Nothing and it matters not how we relate to him. As for being spiritual and God the relationship is implied not in the forefront like with religion.