GM Science...so God's creation isn't good enough?

[Podshell]

Also most reports of aliens relate to Greys and their activities which could point to a genetic disaster.Why are they so interested in our DNA? Why the embryo and hybridisation stuff? Are they failed GM future humans?

[Fae Rei]

I think you've been watching too much of The X Files.

[Podshell]

Not seen many of those Fae, but the one I did see on the Greys didn't scare me, not like some of the supposedly genuine cases, some of them are quite terrifying, especially when you realise they can creep in at night when you are asleep.

[Honza]

Not familiar with the 'Greys'.....who are they?

[sky]

[quote=Honza]Not familiar with the 'Greys'.....who are they?[/QUOTE

There Whites gone off colour

[Lilyth Von Gore]

As a scientist, I'm all for genetic modification.
We as a species cannot sustain ourselves with organic food. Too many of us, not enough space, over-farming land and rendering it useless. We have to modify plants to be resistant to disease and to be able to grow anywhere so we can feed our ever growing population.

[Touched]

The truth is, evolution is no longer in the hands of 'nature'. Man has eclipsed any other force in shaping the earth and what is in it.

It started a long time ago. Wheat is actually a hybrid of three types of grass. The modern chicken. The Holstein. The Dachshund. Nature didn't do that. Rivers and lakes. Deserts. Whole forests decimated - and whole forests planted. Whole mountains flattened, and the atmosphere itself changing.

And now we are coming to understand genetics. That we will eventually take the evolution of Man itself into our own hands is inevitable. Yes, there are a whole list of pros and cons to that. Mistakes will be made, that is unavoidable - but the potential gain is almost literally limitless.

The primary point I would like to bring however is about the divide between what is 'natural' and what is not. On the one hand, I agree that Man commanding evolution is a definite break and landmark. On the other hand, to say what Man is doing is 'unnatural' is to somehow say that Man is outside of nature, which is ridiculous. We are all in and from the same 'nature' - and in nature the only constant is change. We still, no matter how we try to set ourselves apart with our intelligence, come out of nature, and are bound by those laws of nature which science truly defines - not just our attitudes and prejudices.

No matter what we do, we ARE evolution, both the effect and now the cause, but still following 'natures way', quite literally, by definition, no matter by what is seen as the 'immediate' agency. It really is more than a little bit humbling and awe inspiring to be alive at this moment in the human experience, yes, even with the difficulties and challenges. I really do feel there is something humbling and awe inspiring to witnessing what is potentially the beginning of something on a galactic scale.

[Within Silence]

Man cannot separate himself from nature any more than the sun can separate itself from light, at least not without suffering disastrous effects to himself. And if he chooses to do this, he'll eventually learn not to through the suffering that must ensue. Everyone must pay for their sins, and everyone is guilty of all the good they didn’t do. And don't think I am excluding myself from this, I am on the same mysteriously flying sphere somewhere in outer space just like you. ;)

Separation is the original sin, the great fall remember? what is to “fall away” but to “separate from.” Nature is man’s God/Goddess as long as he’s on this earth, and all the beliefs against this truth are as useless as one believing that it’s not supposed to be raining while they’re standing in the pouring rain. You’re free to believe what you wish, but it changes not actuality one bit. Thus, it may be wise to treat nature as the Great Divine Mother she is instead of raping and pillaging her, instead of trying to make her into something she isn’t. But man is so hubris, like a spoiled child who disrespects its own parents, only to one day come crawling back begging for mercy after having realized through great suffering just how ignorant it really was. Humanity seems to be on the same path, which, upon reaching its extreme everything reverses direction, and humanity is reaching the extremes of separation.

It seems that man has become so arrogant that he's forgotten that his vegetable garden is more important than himself, for without it he dies, yet without him the garden lives, as the plant kingdom pre-seeded (pun intended) man, as the support system must be in place prior to that which is dependent upon it. Thus, destroy the support system and that which is dependent upon it parishes along with it. Alter the support system and that which is sustained by it is altered. Pollute the support system and that which eats it becomes polluted. Toxify the support system and that which eats and breathes it becomes toxic. This is what the statement: “You reap what you sow” is pointing to. It’s all very simple really, radically simple in fact, but man is not intelligent enough to see the simple, and he is ignorant enough to make it complex.

Man cannot usurp nature as its God/Goddess, because the effect cannot rise higher than the cause, the apple can never usurp or do without the apple tree. And the tree needs the earth, and the earth needs the water, and the sun and all the micro-nutrients which are all dependent upon everything else. In other words, the apple and the apple tree are ONE!

What is man tampering with genes but nature learning about itself.
What is neuropsychology but the brain studying itself.

This is what man misses, he believes there is something separate from nature (himself i.e. human vs. nature) studying nature, this is how far he's devolved/separated himself from original nature. The reason man will never find that which he's searching for is because he's it, and if he tries to separate it from its source he destroys himself, because he's it, it is part of himself. Thus, he's hell bent on controlling that which controls him, trying to create that which created him, trying to govern that which governs him, trying to make better that which is already perfect in itself. Thus instead of fighting against it, he needs to become one with it, instead of seeing himself as separate from it and rule over it, he needs to return to unity with it and work together with it, as these would only benefit himself. Shall the child try to give birth to the parent? Shall the fish attempt to live outside the water? But nature is impatrial and so it doesn't stop the fish from being ignorant and attempting to live outside the water, it says "go for it" and watch what happens when you fight against your own nature! Thus the more he tries to improve nature the more he ruins it, the more he forces it to do that which is beyond its original natural capacity the greater he risks ruining himself. But such is life, and man is free to do as it desires.

It is through suffering that we learn how to not suffer.
It is through destruction of the old that the new is born.

[Busby]

Originally Posted by Honza

You are totally missing the point that I keep making. Animals are subject to NATURAL SELECTION. Hence only the strongest and fittest survive. No deformed, half blind animal will live long enough to breed. But people are different; disabled and half blind people live long and pro-create - hence their genes get mixed into the gene pool. The next generation will also have deformities and eyesight problems. If this carries on for thousands of years then the entire race of people will have weak genes which give them bad eyesight, disabilities etc.

Animals are only fit because the weak die. In people the weak do not die; they have children. Then bad genes spread like a wildfire.

I think the problem here is that you do not understand genetics!

Were we to go back a couple of hundred years we'd get the shock of our lives just going for a walk. People had horrible diseases, many were deformed, many suffered from insufficient vitamins causing scurvy or bow legs, many were blind, had open sores, terrible skin ailmets, badly healed-broken limbs - and so on.
Now you want us to believe that nature doesn't need help. We, at least many of us, live in a healthy world where most illnesses are due to over-indulgence of those things we know are bad for us. Nature set us up to exist from almost nothing, a few worms and some leaves and we lived for twenty-five years or so - and that was the lot. In the middle ages things started to get better, but not very. But today things are very different. And, we have to face it, - we don't know what evolution intends. We don't even know if genetics really has much to do with our future.
Modern medicine seems to improve our lot and not leave us to the whim of nature. I'm an old man, well over three score years and ten, still fit and well, as many of us still are, not many of past generations could say such a thing, my parents had no teeth at forty and both were dead at sixty.

Clearly, and hopefully, were a god to be involved in the genetic development of things on this planet everything would be perfect. But it, the Absolute, leaves all of us to get on with it. In the end it doesn't matter anyway. We are going to get there no matter what happens.

[Within Silence]

[quote=Within Silence] Everyone must pay for their sins, and everyone is guilty of all the good they didn’t do. And don't think I am excluding myself from this, I am on the same mysteriously flying sphere somewhere in outer space just like you. ;)[/QUOTE]

FYI-^^^that was supposed to be "shockingly" funny by the way, not as serious as it may sound. It was intended to awaken the reader, send a little tickle into your hear to get one thinking about the world we're creating. This quote is about the evil done by lack of action and was taken out of context from one of Voltaire's books. I was pointing to the evil/sin we humans do like not standing up for mother earth as best we can, which we are all guilty of. Thus I think its important to see that we not only harm the earth and ourselves by what we do to it, but also by what we don't do and don't say about what we're doing to it. Hence the evil of lack of action. So, sorry if it came off as harsh. Like I said, I'm as guilty as everyone else and fall woefully short of the good I could be doing.