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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #41  
Old 14-04-2012, 02:06 AM
cresthill
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by res
I feel compelled to raise this issue in regard to people that will encourage accidental suicide. Meaning people that encourage others to take risks to better their chances at dieing sooner in hopes of returning to gods loving arms and this place called heaven where people skip everywhere they go around eating cotton candy and giving out hugs when you arrive at the pearly gates.

I have seen people encouraging this within these forums which reminds of a certain groups that encourage people to carry bombs into public places in some sort of sacrificial rite that will ensure their entry back in to gods house and carry out gods apocaliptic vision.

Do people actually realise that they are advising someones mother/ father, sister or brother, son or daughter? what if it turns out it is their own son ,daughter or mother or father that they encourage to take risks and succeed. Do they consider the persons age, mental health and responsibilities to the children that have been brought in to this world by them? I think not and i feel that a line should be drawn and that people that encourage suicide in any form should be banned from associating with what could be minors and unbalanced persons maybe even you own family in these forums.

They say that the greatest deciet that ever was, was the devil convincing the world that he didnt exist. If he did exist no one would follow him toward evil and rather he would lead you toward a lie. Could these people that lead others toward merrygo rounds and lollie pops handed out by supermodels with wings in the heavens be acting on evils behalf and the real deciet is that there is no heaven for those that have the slightest intention of taking their own life or maybe no heaven at all.

What actions can we take as responsible adults to protect the impressionable innocent souls on this site against people that will assist them in certain tragedy. Especially in this forum on death and the afterlife?

Do any moderators or admin have any suggestions? Is there a duty of care?

Do any of you fellow SF-ers have any suggestions?
blessed are we in so much as god is non judgemental so any one who committed suicide is loved by god same there still his kids but if any one leaves earth plane early will have to returne to complete there journey in learning experience those people who encourage others in the way you talk about are creating carma for them selves very dangerous
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  #42  
Old 14-04-2012, 03:44 AM
CatChild
Posts: n/a
 
I felt like commenting here as well- I am not really commenting though about the advising of SF members but rather my personal thoughts on suicide anyway-

I think when a Human Being feels they are no longer 'living' life, the least painful thing is to end it in whatever definitive way they choose to. Life for some people slowly chips away at their life force anyway in the forms of stress, grief and heartache.

Surviving ISN'T living. Thriving is.

I am not saying I advocate for suicide- I am saying I advocate for Choice because each one of us knows what truly works and doesn't work.

Those who say the Human Beings who commit suicide are selfish etc are only stating their wishes and needs to not have to miss anyone- or hear of loved ones being left behind in despair. That makes Perfect sense. I guess I can see both sides and know it's not my place to say what someone should Literally do with their life.

A lot of the time it's actually about a lack of choice or control in one's life.

I saw the mention of all the things a person would end up missing out on if they weren't living- things like sex, love and puppies. Agreed, these things are worth living for, but what if these things just Cannot fill the void of bring enjoyment to another. My father's one of the saddest Human Beings I know. His spirit has been broken for as long as I've known him. I know though that he'd die for me or for anyone in our family in a second, because he values our lives more than he does his own. He can spend time with puppies, family and have sex with my mom, but what if all of those things brought him less of a feeling of being alive, than whatever's been giving him the feeling of slowly dying?

I wonder how many people really Think about what Life and Living means to those who are with us right now. I think that perhaps, I have spent time thinking about many things- and the meaning of life and death have most certainly been hot topics in my own mind throughout my lifetime. I guess I don't really want to see anyone take their life. It doesn't scare me, but I can't help but feel for those who are left behind. It seems to be a topic that my logic desperately wants to pick a side with, but the logic is definitely split and divided for what is both best for the sufferer and for everyone else involved.

We have talked about this type of thing as a family. It is our consensus that we will support the decisions of the family members- as death is as personal as life is. My parents have told my sibling and I, that when they are unable to care for themselves anymore, they will take a walk into the woods and do not wish to be helped. To me, this is the equivalent of anyone who has signed a DNR paper due to poor physical health. That in itself is being allowed to have the right to die, if something is gripping the life force of your physical body. In my mind, emotional, mental and spiritual dis ease/pain should be given the same honor and respect as the physical.
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  #43  
Old 14-04-2012, 05:25 AM
res
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly1
This thread is about members on this forum, giving advice to vulnerable people speaking of suicide....We on the forum don't truly know anyone on here,(unless of course we are friends in the flesh or family to them)...so we can be told anything by anyone without a way of actually knowing anything about them....to give such advice as to condone suicide to anyone on a forum is grossly irresponsible......telling someone you are contemplating such an act is a cry for help, not for encouragement to do it....... It is anyones choice of course to go through with the act (as it well maybe their path), but it is not our right to encourage this act in anyway.....that is my firm belief on this matter.....
I offer you my condolences for the sad losses in your life.....Peace xx

It does seem that we have drifted away from the essence of the issue.

Starting this thread i was concerned with people encouraging suicide in anyway shape or form based on some members personal experience and spiritual beliefs that there is an attractive afterlife awaiting all of us.

Seems that the thread has drifted toward 'if it is valid for people to have the choice to end their life early'. This confuses the issue for me and leaves me wondering if some members are challenging that encouraging suicide in any way shape or form is acceptable.

The whole suicide issue is very complex and i would like to debate it in other threads though i hope that we get this thread back on track so that others can clearly see what the masses have to say on this one very important subject , which is:

Q) Is "encouraging someone to end their life early" in any way shape or form acceptable?
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  #44  
Old 14-04-2012, 06:55 AM
Trieah
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by res
Q) Is "encouraging someone to end their life early" in any way shape or form acceptable?

You're asking for a definitive answer to something that is so subjective and circumstantial, that there is no one definitive answer.

What you should be asking for, is a set of guidelines that pertain to this message board. And how the members of this message board should conduct themselves when replying to the topic of suicide on this message board.

But just how strict do you want to make that code of conduct? Would you take away another person's right to speak, or give their opinion? And just who is it that gets to decide if what was said was actually a violation, even if the person who wrote it meant something completely different then how it was interpreted? Should that person be banned, just because they were misunderstood? Should every single person on this message board who even mentioned/mentions they either had or are contemplating suicide, be treated as some poor lost soul in desperate need of help? What if that person knows deep down inside, they'd never actually do such a thing, but they still think about it on occasion? Does that truly make them a desperate person crying out for help?

Um. . . , I do believe that in my first reply to this thread, I mentioned that I myself have contemplated suicide on and off for many years. But to be honest, if a bunch of people started attacking me with "don't kill yourself!!!" posts, that would drive me nuts, because I don't see myself as someone desperately crying out for help. Someone who gets tired of all the ** drama of life at times, maybe. Or someone who knows what I've got waiting for me on the other side, perhaps. But a desperate soul trying to make one last plea for help, I think not. Personally, I'd be far more irritated over people getting the wrong impression of me, then I would be grateful for their encouragement for me not doing something I already know deep down inside that I won't do (at least not with out a damn good reason).

And while we're on the subject. What happens when someone who admits to thinking about suicide as one of the possibilities for him to achieve a certain goal, such as crossing over into another dimension, but then eventually gets banned himself for reacting to his entire thread being deleted by one of the mods? This really happened on this very message board not too long ago. I actually got this person to start opening up to me via PMs, and was trying to help him be more interested in living in the dimension he was born into. But now, I can't even help him anymore because he dared to say "Shame on you" to the person who deleted his thread. Though I must admit, I only know his side of the story after he created a second account, just to tell me what happened before saying his good bye to me. But he's never been back since. Would banning a person who admitted he might eventually give suicide a try if all his other attempts to achieve his goal failed, not be considered irresponsible, regardless if he upset someone with the power to ban him?

By the way, is that the thread you've been referring to???
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  #45  
Old 14-04-2012, 08:24 AM
res
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trieah
You're asking for a definitive answer to something that is so subjective and circumstantial, that there is no one definitive answer.

Under what circumstances is it ok to encourage someone that they should end their life??? The key word is "encourage" and i would really appreciate if you would take the time to help me understand where you are coming from.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trieah
What you should be asking for, is a set of guidelines that pertain to this message board. And how the members of this message board should conduct themselves when replying to the topic of suicide on this message board.

That is the plan. This thread is to see if others share my concerns, a way to validate that i am not just getting over emotional and that my concerns are valid. That information is exactly what i have been asking for and thanks for sharing that Trieah.

I am only a very small fish in the workings of this forum and my suggestion for banning may be an over reaction in the eyes of the admin. I question this myself and maybe a warning system before banning is more appropriate. Ultimately it is up to admin, not me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trieah
By the way, is that the thread you've been referring to???

I dont know anything about that thread sorry.
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  #46  
Old 14-04-2012, 04:23 PM
Trieah
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by res
Under what circumstances is it ok to encourage someone that they should end their life??? The key word is "encourage" and i would really appreciate if you would take the time to help me understand where you are coming from.
First, you're going to have to narrow down your definition of "encourage". Because that can mean several different things right there.

Now, if you're talking about the kind of encouragement that Occultist spoke about, where people encourage others to jump off a building. Or who would come up to a person out of the blue and say something like, "Hey, I got a great idea. Why don't you just kill yourself and then all your problems will be solved." Then yeah, I would be more inclined to agree with you. Unless of course it was meant as a tongue in cheek type jest. I actually know quite a few people who have a more morbid but harmless sense of humor (myself included, but it's also a coping mechanism).

But, you've also been quite the advocate for encouragement in any way, shape or form, to be unacceptable. What of the supportive kind of encouragement that understands the severity of the full situation? Is having great sympathy for the person who is suffering far more then you could ever possibly know, really such a horrible thing? People like to say that those who commit suicide are just so selfish for taking themselves away from their family and loved ones. But, I've also heard of cases where people would say things like, "That person was so selfish for not letting their suffering loved one go, by making them linger on in pain to the very end."

Actually, my mom did that with her third husband. He was dying a very slow painful death due to liver failure. But she refused to let him go. Even telling me that if he died before they actually got married, she would lose out on everything they had over the 15 years they were only living together. So it was actually more important for her, to have her piece of security, then it was to let him go when he wanted to go. So yes, that kind of situation happens as well.

So, what about those people who have to live with excruciating physical pain for the rest of their life? Would you tell that person to just deal with the pain, or take such strong and addicting medications to mask all the pain their body is in, just so they can linger on a few more weeks, months, years with their excruciating physical pain? Would you not sympathize with what they are going through at all, simply because you can not relate to what they are going through? Or because you don't want to lose them for what ever reason you may have?

And what of those who's lives are so completely incapacitated, that the quality of their life is so greatly diminished that they're not really even "living" life anymore, just merely surviving it? What of those who are in such great mental anguish over losing their dignity by being so compromised? What of those who have been so badly injured that they would not last very long? If someone begged you for mercy, to help end their suffering, would you tell them, "Sorry, you're just going to have to live the last days of your life in excruciating pain. Or in mental agony"? Sure, there is always the possibility that they might actually pull through, especially if they are able to get the proper medical help. But what if there's no way to get that medical help, such as if there was a terrible car or plane accident out in the middle of nowhere, with no way of getting help?

Granted, you're probably not going to run into that kind of situation on a message board. But it does seem like you've been talking about any and all situations where this topic could apply to life in general.

So, there are far more situations out there, then just encouraging a postpartum depressed new mother to kill herself. In fact, there are as many different situations concerning how a person dies, as there are people in the world. I'm not trying to cloud the issue for you. But, you did ask me to explain my position on the subject.

As for those who believe they have already achieved all the lessons they came to Earth to learn, I would have to question them about how they know they've already achieved all those goals. And then I would have to question them on whether or not they might still be here, because they need to help spread what they've learned onto someone else who could benefit from their gained wisdom. As I'm not quite convinced that life is only about the lessons we have to learn. But rather as some kind of combination of that, and teaching lessons to others, as well as lending a hand in service. One never really knows just how influential or inspirational they can really be to another person. But, if one takes their own life, simply because they are ready to die before their time is truly up, then everyone else whom that person was supposed to influence, inspire, or even provide a random act of kindness for, has suffered a great loss which may never be regained. And it is that aspect, that I would bring up to a spiritually evolved person, contemplating ending it all.

So, in taking that stance, questioning someone to the extent that they must think of all the pros and cons, in a way, is also a form of encouragement. It just depends on how that person reacts to it, by finalizing whether it truly is worth it or not.
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  #47  
Old 14-04-2012, 05:08 PM
Occultist
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trieah
Ok, I have a serious question. Just how often does one encounter the scenario where someone is actually trying to encourage someone else to commit suicide? To be honest, I really don't think it happens anywhere near as much as this thread seems to imply it does. And especially not in the scenarios that have been brought up. Could it be that we're all just speculating too much on such a touchy subject?
I have several times when people jump from buildings others below have yelled Jump! and encouraged the person to do just that. It is a touchy subject I agree. But I still believe we shouldnt encourage people to commit suicide and if you read some of our threads on suicide people have encouraged it.
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  #48  
Old 14-04-2012, 05:10 PM
Occultist
Posts: n/a
 
Trieah: many of the people below who encourage people to jump was joking and giggling they never assume they will perhaps? That still doesnt make it right does it?
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  #49  
Old 14-04-2012, 05:15 PM
LadyTerra
Posts: n/a
 
Greetings Everyone:

It is my believe--concerning underage participants of SF--that the responsibility lies with their parents.

Parents should be involved with the online participation of their children and have frank and open discussions with their young ones--regarding the SpiritualBeliefs of their own family unit.

I (personally) would not allow my 14 year old to visit message boards of any kind--because people are apt to post their individual views.

I raised (5) children and was completely involved in their music, television, movie, video game, and internet choices--until they came of age and left home.

That being said--I have read the entire thread (in question) and still maintain that (IMO) no one has advocated suicide.

Many have chosen to live lives and pursue careers that place them outside the general idea of safety and prudent lifestyles.

Our Firefighters, Police Officers, and Military Personnel--to name a few--place their lives and the futures of their children in jeopardy--in the line of duty--everyday.

Some would see this as a death wish.

How about people like Evil Kenievel? He could definitely be classified as an adrenaline junkie and yet he was a person who was considered to be a public attraction and I can remember the whole family crowding around the Tv. whenever he would perform one of his "Death Defying Feats".

The point I am trying to make here is that anyone of these careers could be seen as suicidal in nature and it is up to parents to do the job of policing their children and instilling their own perspective and values in them--until they are old enough to decide for themselves.

It is up to the Moderators of SF to decide what constitutes the encouragement of suicide and draw the appropriate boundary lines--then the rest of us will have to abide by their decision as long as we wish to remain as members of this wonderful and enlightening Forum.

I have made many connections and friends in my (3) plus years here. I have been able to offer kindness, friendship, and assistance to some. I have received the same from others.

Concerning the point of this thread--I still maintain that no one has been encouraged to harm themselves in any way--in my humble opinion.

Peace and Love on the path of forming your own opinions...

Blessed be...
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  #50  
Old 14-04-2012, 08:04 PM
Trieah
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Occultist
I have several times when people jump from buildings others below have yelled Jump! and encouraged the person to do just that. It is a touchy subject I agree. But I still believe we shouldnt encourage people to commit suicide and if you read some of our threads on suicide people have encouraged it.

Fair enough. Though now I wonder which is greater, the amount of times you've seen people encouraging it, or the amount of times you've seen people discouraging it?

To be honest, I've come across more people who actually discourage suicidal tendencies in others, then I have seen people actually encourage it. So perhaps my blindside on this matter is that I don't see this as such an out of control subject as it may sound, since I rarely come across that kind of situation. But, that is not to say that the concerns being brought up are unfounded.

And now, with the added information from Lady Terra, I have to wonder if this "encouragement" isn't just a gross misunderstanding by other people, and the person who actually said such things never intended it to be taken that way. It's not unlike all the other post on this message board where someone asks a question about something they experienced, and gets back a whole slew of diverse opinions from other people who are going by their own personal interpretation of what that other person's experience was.

How many times have we seen people asking questions about the conduct of their spirit guide, only to be told anything between "It's a perfectly legitimate thing for a spirit guide to do" to "It's an outrageous thing for a spirit guide to do, and therefore it must be something evil out to fool you"? How many times have we seen mini arguments pop up over a complete misunderstanding of what someone actually meant, after someone else took offense by assuming the very worst of that person? How does one know for sure that other person only had the best of intentions in mind? How does one convince others that they've only been misunderstood in their meaning? Or how can they even further explain themselves at all if they are instantly banned?

Yes, it is a touchy subject indeed. All of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Occultist
Trieah: many of the people below who encourage people to jump was joking and giggling they never assume they will perhaps? That still doesnt make it right does it?

You're absolutely right. It doesn't make it right. And those people who encouraged it used very poor judgment. And if that person actually did jump to their death, that's something those who were only joking are going to have to live with. Assuming they were only joking around in the first place, and didn't really want to see someone kill them self. Sadly enough, there really are people so desensitized out in this world who actually enjoy that sort of thing. Does make me wonder just how much they would still enjoy it, if it happened to someone they actually cared about though.
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