Ascension

[peteyzen]

I humbly bow to your greater wisdom Nitiananda

Originally Posted by peteyzen

karma is dependent on one thing and that is our intent. Karma isnt something that is sometimes produced, it is constant, every single intent produces karma. The skillful way to be , is to understand this and to endeavour to create karma skillfully. Karma is simply a boomerang as you intend, so you create a returning energy.Some small karmas can be burnt off using spiritual practices, but larger karma has to be paid.The only exception to this is by divine intervention and that too has to be earned.

In the original Sanskrit, 'karma' is translated to 'action'. Later on the moral component was added and nowadays.... well it's got out of hand, frankly. In Sanskrit 'kamma' is translated as 'behaviour' but what you're talking about here - kinda - is Kamma-Vipaka, basically the results of kamma but it's a lot more 'technical' than that. You don't really create Kamma, it happens as a result of your intentions so even non-action has consequences. If you do something because you're helping out a fellow Spirit then it'll work in your favour. If you're doing it to achieve the Spiritual high ground it ain't gonna happen. That's about vibrations. "Paying karma" is the mentality that spawned and propagates the misconceptions of karma, and the more you think about it the less sense it makes. The Universal Law of Karma has become reward and punishment mentality - be nice or you won't go to heaven.

Originally Posted by Nitiananda

Therefore, in my opinion, to advance in practice you better go through "Baptism with fire and water" in order to eradicate bad karma

What makes 'good karma' good and what makes 'bad karma' bad? For all the great minds in this forum nobody has yet been able to tell me how to tell which is what. Take your best shot.

I've had the discussions and they usually boil down to judgement.

[peteyzen]

To be truthful greenslade we are saying the same thing. I am saying that intent creates karma, not action. And I say that our every intention is constantly creating karma that will produce our future. I speak of "skilful' karmic c creation, not good or bad. We aren't so far apart in our perceptions.

Originally Posted by peteyzen

To be truthful greenslade we are saying the same thing. I am saying that intent creates karma, not action. And I say that our every intention is constantly creating karma that will produce our future. I speak of "skilful' karmic c creation, not good or bad. We aren't so far apart in our perceptions.

Karma and kamma are two different things and the law of karma isn't what it's portrayed as. Karma is looking at two sides of the same coin, you come into one Life as a victim and another as a perpetrator, that way there's a balance of experience. Karma has nothing to do with intention, Kamma-Vipaka has, and is the result of intention of action. Another way of putting it is the reasons you take an action. If you take an action with the intention of being 'holier than thou' or a better person, Kamma-Vipaka will kick in either way. The 'skilful' will be whether you're actually Spiritual or you're just telling yourself you are.

I'm having a fair bit of trouble with this ascension stuff; encountered it on a brief weekend course then elsewhere earlier this morning and can't seem to separate it from "spiritual development" with mostly the same aim and some ways the same path but in different words. Pre that course I looked stuff up on the web and as usual it wasn't helpful.

I think one problem is it's still based on the old hierarchical stuff. Ascension=going up? Why? What's up there that isn't in the deepest recesses?

The other is that its master/chela structure seems more like a stab at religion. Allows no room for consensus. That course didn't welcome me. Its leaders didn't like questions. One of them was like that blonde pseudo-shrink in Wayward Pines, all mind games and brainwashing through feel-good rewards in the good old limbic. The way it was painted to me was a kind of spiritual free-masonry. Much around "group" with its pecking order.

I'm always curious, please understand, because there may be things to learn but if it's a quasi-religion I'll avoid it.
.

[peteyzen]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Karma and kamma are two different things and the law of karma isn't what it's portrayed as. Karma is looking at two sides of the same coin, you come into one Life as a victim and another as a perpetrator, that way there's a balance of experience. Karma has nothing to do with intention, Kamma-Vipaka has, and is the result of intention of action. Another way of putting it is the reasons you take an action. If you take an action with the intention of being 'holier than thou' or a better person, Kamma-Vipaka will kick in either way. The 'skilful' will be whether you're actually Spiritual or you're just telling yourself you are.

With respect that may be your definition of Karma and kamma, but generally they are interchangeable words for the same thing. I could bore the **** out of people by posting endless definitions to back my statement and no doubt you will. So, karma has everything to do with intention. secondly, essentially as I said, skillful use of karma is understanding that your intention creates whatever you intend, to come boomeranging back to you. If people delude themselves or dont examine their thoughts , then that is unskilfull use of the law of karma. So, essentially we are saying the same thing. Which I said previously

[Jyotir]

Karma and kamma are essentially the same thing. They refer to the same principle, regardless of errant interpretations or incomplete or misconceived definitions.

For practical purposes in discussion of karma: Intention IS action. There really is no difference, just a matter of degree, since occultly, 'energy follows thought'.

What ultimately determines any manifestation of karma is the Will of the Highest, which is the truth-consciousness of existence. It determines the generalized 'law' and subsequent outcomes, but also allows for any specific 'modification' of law in compassionate response (higher law) to the limited free will of individuals in consciously aspiring to that very truth-consciousness in and through earthly action (intent) that is deliberately authentically spiritual.

~ J

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Karma and kamma are essentially the same thing. They refer to the same principle, regardless of errant interpretations or incomplete or misconceived definitions.

For practical purposes in discussion of karma: Intention IS action. There really is no difference, just a matter of degree, since occultly, 'energy follows thought'.

What ultimately determines any manifestation of karma is the Will of the Highest, which is the truth-consciousness of existence. It determines the generalized 'law' and subsequent outcomes, but also allows for any specific 'modification' of law in compassionate response (higher law) to the limited free will of individuals in consciously aspiring to that very truth-consciousness in and through earthly action (intent) that is deliberately authentically spiritual.

~ J

The term "truth consciousness" stood out to me so I Googled it and came across Swami Amar Jyoti.
I said to myself that this is either a sign or just a coincidence lol.
In any case I ordered a book that caught my eye.
Does your avatar name have anything to do with this?
I kinda hope so because I really value your posts and I feel like I found some something good in this website of his

[lemex]

Originally Posted by peteyzen

intention creates whatever you intend, to come boomeranging back to you.

I don't agree and actually see this as one of karmas dogma. Where act mirrors intention there is no difference. But what of a person who has a first thought but does not act on the intention even opposite to it. The thought was there but not done. Maybe ones intention is as vague as to be a better person and thus is learning. It is too incomplete and unyielding.