There exists nothing but faith

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by deztini3

Theres one thing i´m afraid of in this life, and thats material existence without anything spiritual.

There exists no certainty about if there is a spirit world, only hope.

How do i not know if everything related to this subject isnt a conjuration of the mind?

How do you know if your faith hasnt simply clouded your reason?

How do you know if all the things that you think you have seen through meditation or other things is real? How do you know if it isnt just something that your mind has created from imagination gathered from things you have read about the subject? If it isnt just something that your mind created because of your faith that it exists?

Is there any reason for a spiritual world to exist?

Is it just something that people create to ignore the sad reality that there is no purpose.

Is it simply the nature of being conscious, to believe in a higher purpose?

I have thought about purpose many times

And i have reached the final conclusion that, if our purpose is to grow spiritually, then that purpose was given to us by a higher being(god)

That god created values of what matters to us and what doesnt matter to us.

What matters to a person that has realized the true meaning of life(growing spiritually), is a value created, and that value cannot be changed, thus it is nothing special, only a value, a value that was created to matter to us.

When you think things throughout, they simply end with pure reason, and that reason tells me that there is no place for a higher purpose, its simply something that we created, it is simply what is the nature of being conscious.

And even if there was a true purpose(spiritual purpose) then that purpose was based on logic, a system, values..

Something decided what we should value as high and what we should value as low, and the highest value the human mind could comprehend, is to be a true loving being, a spiritual person of love and wisdom. There is no free will, everything is determined no matter what.

We created the spiritual world with our mind to tell ourselves that there was a purpose in life, that we lived with a purpose greater than simply procreating.

But we ignored why we wanted to create the spiritual world. We created the world because we were afraid that everything would end after death, which it unfortunately will, and even if it wont, even if we will become spirits, then we will already know that the purpose that was created for us was determined, we never had any grip over our own destiny, so it is even pointless to look forward to anything.

Thanks for reading, i´m trying to express my view on this as best as i can, i may have done it better, but i hope you got the point.

There's nothing wrong with not knowing. Have you ever listened to this woman called Unmani?
Look her up on line if you'd like. She talks about the beauty in not knowing.
Blessings, James

[deztini3]

Originally Posted by Silvergirl

Believers can only give you anecdotal stories of our experiences that are subjective.

It's true that each individual has to come upon SOMEthing that turns their head and it's totally unique in both timing and why, how, etc. it happens that way for you. Sometimes it's just cumulative and we make the all-uncertain judgment call ~ it's not something you can measure in a beaker, that sort of thing, y'know. You're a skeptic and we'd waste our breath telling 'our story'.

If you can 'live' with the 'knowledge' that there's nothing in the great beyond, then why sweat it? The way I see it is, there's either spiritual existence forever or there's sweet oblivion after our bodies die. I don't see anything wrong with either.

Theres absolutely no oblivion if there is no spiritual existence, just nothingness.

And trust me, i wish i was as certain as you and others that posted in this thread, that there is absolute spiritual existence after death, but i have simply yet to discover any true reason to believe it. I really wish that there was a greater purpose than to just die and become nothing, theres nothing i am more afraid of than dying.

Thats why i continue to seek evidence for me to believe further in spiritual things.

I have never heard a spirit, i have never felt a spirit. Yet i have called and wished for a sign, but theres simply nothing there.

I´m a really troubled person, because the only question i wish to have answered, has no answer.

I simply cant be happy living in this uncertainty.

And the only answers i see from people is "look inside you"

I know what you mean, but theres nothing to look at there, except the endless echo of the questions that i ask the air around me.

[Silver]

You haven't looked very hard in this forum. There are tons of stories about people seeing spirits or second hand stories, I have a few in here myself. Somewhere, take your time, read more stuff!

[deztini3]

Originally Posted by Silvergirl

You haven't looked very hard in this forum. There are tons of stories about people seeing spirits or second hand stories, I have a few in here myself. Somewhere, take your time, read more stuff!

Like i said, theres nothing but stories and claims. There will never be any data that can proof the existence of spirituality completely. Its all about faith.

You may choose to believe or not believe, and your belief is based off your faith, and your faith is based off your fear of nothingness after death.

I still have faith, because i admit that i´m scared of nothingness after death.

I will continue to seek evidence throughout my life to justify my faith.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by deztini3

Like i said, theres nothing but stories and claims. There will never be any data that can proof the existence of spirituality completely. Its all about faith.

You may choose to believe or not believe, and your belief is based off your faith, and your faith is based off your fear of nothingness after death.

I still have faith, because i admit that i´m scared of nothingness after death.

I will continue to seek evidence throughout my life to justify my faith.

Nothing but stories. If you have a story about testing cars, and it's a cool story wouldn't you be hurt if someone was bored with it? Gosh. Heart felt stories whether it's about the cosmos or cars or spirits. That's what we are, a fun collection of interesting tales. The best memories many if not most of us have are storytellings.

Our beliefs are based on so many variables, deztini3. I grew up going to Sunday School every week. But there are stories, some of them second hand, people I know, don't skeptics listen to interesting things, read interesting books? Hey, I used to be afraid of nothingness after death. I think a lot of the time, growing older and more mature gives us a different outlook. That's what happened to me. Life's been sorta tough sometimes for me (lost my 22-year-old son last year on Valentine's Day, went in his sleep). I decided in recent times that if there's nothing, then it will be a well-deserved rest from all the woes and problems. And I won't be alone! (Either way.)

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by deztini3

Like i said, theres nothing but stories and claims. There will never be any data that can proof the existence of spirituality completely. Its all about faith.

You may choose to believe or not believe, and your belief is based off your faith, and your faith is based off your fear of nothingness after death.

I still have faith, because i admit that i´m scared of nothingness after death.

I will continue to seek evidence throughout my life to justify my faith.

You are afraid of nothingness after death, how do you feel about life?

Blessings, James

[Lightspirit]

Originally Posted by deztini3

Thanks for the replies, but my main point is that, there is no reason to so strongly believe that there exists anything beyond material existence.

If someone can give me strong reasons to believe that there exists a spiritual purpose, then you have my attention.

I admit that i have experienced things that seemed unnatural, but at the same time i witness 10 times more things that indicate that there exists no justice in this world.

Youre a good person? Here, have cancer. Its caused by genetics, no matter what you were in your former life.

Denzin. Your mind is a by product of our modern times as is mine.




We have grown up n a culture that uses evidence based reason to measure things.


Sometimes you are going to have to just go with things and jump in the back seat and go along for the ride without the road map and GPS.


Inside all of us there is a sense of something else besides the physical. Most primitive tribes have a spiritual awareness of something greater than the physical.

it is a common thing with humans. An inbuilt awareness. In our modern times the recognition of it is ridiculed and trained out of us by our current learning methods.

There is more to our existence than the physical.


I was playing in the esp thread this week and a girl on here wrote in that thread things i have and things about me nobody but my immediate family knows- specific named things not generalisations.

How can that be? I have no answers except there is another level of reality around us our current learning does not understand yet many of us are able to access it.

I think this is a spiritual part of our being. I think this mysterious part of us is connected with God.

[NightSpirit]

Originally Posted by deztini3

Theres one thing i´m afraid of in this life, and thats material existence without anything spiritual.

There exists no certainty about if there is a spirit world, only hope.

How do i not know if everything related to this subject isnt a conjuration of the mind?

How do you know if your faith hasnt simply clouded your reason?

How do you know if all the things that you think you have seen through meditation or other things is real? How do you know if it isnt just something that your mind has created from imagination gathered from things you have read about the subject? If it isnt just something that your mind created because of your faith that it exists?

Is there any reason for a spiritual world to exist?

Is it just something that people create to ignore the sad reality that there is no purpose.

Is it simply the nature of being conscious, to believe in a higher purpose?

I have thought about purpose many times

And i have reached the final conclusion that, if our purpose is to grow spiritually, then that purpose was given to us by a higher being(god)

That god created values of what matters to us and what doesnt matter to us.

What matters to a person that has realized the true meaning of life(growing spiritually), is a value created, and that value cannot be changed, thus it is nothing special, only a value, a value that was created to matter to us.

When you think things throughout, they simply end with pure reason, and that reason tells me that there is no place for a higher purpose, its simply something that we created, it is simply what is the nature of being conscious.

And even if there was a true purpose(spiritual purpose) then that purpose was based on logic, a system, values..

Something decided what we should value as high and what we should value as low, and the highest value the human mind could comprehend, is to be a true loving being, a spiritual person of love and wisdom. There is no free will, everything is determined no matter what.

We created the spiritual world with our mind to tell ourselves that there was a purpose in life, that we lived with a purpose greater than simply procreating.

But we ignored why we wanted to create the spiritual world. We created the world because we were afraid that everything would end after death, which it unfortunately will, and even if it wont, even if we will become spirits, then we will already know that the purpose that was created for us was determined, we never had any grip over our own destiny, so it is even pointless to look forward to anything.

Thanks for reading, i´m trying to express my view on this as best as i can, i may have done it better, but i hope you got the point.

We all go through asking these questions only to realise they create more questions. Whatever is real enough to you...ExiSts!

You will believe whatever you want. What others believe or don’t is really no consequence to the belief of many. If one is impelled to challenge others, this is really probing what they believe. Those who are really comfortable w/ thier own beliefs seldom have the need to challenge others.

BE comfortable w/ whatever you choose to believe. Others are!

Originally Posted by deztini3

Theres absolutely no oblivion if there is no spiritual existence, just nothingness.

There's not just a nothingness. You discover your true self, and you start to Remember All. Your truths just get deeper and deeper after enlightenment. It's not a nothingness. There is a knowing beyond thought.