Does Christ lead to God's victory?

[Honza]

My point is that if God won we would all start winning with Him. Whereas if I won then we would not. God's victory would initiate the victory of everyone. My victory would only initiate the victory of me.

God is all. So how is all to win? Only by God's victory. I highly doubt that Christ was God because His victory did not lead to the victory of one and all. He came two thousand years ago but the earth and the human race are not saved.

Now if God had won two thousand years ago it would all be over by now.

Originally Posted by Honza

My point is that if God won we would all start winning with Him. Whereas if I won then we would not. God's victory would initiate the victory of everyone. My victory would only initiate the victory of me.

God is all. So how is all to win? Only by God's victory. I highly doubt that Christ was God because His victory did not lead to the victory of one and all. He came two thousand years ago but the earth and the human race are not saved.

Now if God had won two thousand years ago it would all be over by now.

I think a question to ask myself is if my victory only initiates a victory for me, then is it really a victory at all? If I go to war with and slay all those who disagree with me in any way, then what sort of victory would I have won?

As far as God's victory goes, I don't really think I am qualified to say what the victory would look like or whether the battle plan is going as intended. About the best I could do is envision what I think victory would look like if I were God and had won, and I can't really expect my limited and finite mind to get that right. Instead, rather then try to judge for myself whether and when God's victory will be achieved, or even what that might look like, I must rely on my faith that God is good, and even though it may sometimes seems so to me, God is not failing.

God is eternal, what percentage of eternity is two thousand years? What is the difference between two thousand years ago and now to a being that does not know time. How can I know whether Christ's victory will lead to victory for all, and just how much "time" it might take? In the mean time, perhaps Jesus's victory of love, over fear and hate, can inspire me to win a few of my own such battles in the present, and I might consider that as me winning with God.

[jojo50]

question!, did Jesus say that he was “I AM” or is that the sayings of man? This is what Jesus said ,(John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent). Jesus also said this (John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believe in him should not perish, but have everlasting life). Jesus told us he that someone else SENT HIM, not himself. As well as he showed that there was someone else who is the “ONLY TRUE GOD.” and he wasn't referring to HIMSELF, because he included “ and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”

Jesus was NOT and is NOT the “I AM” of the Bible. This “IAM” later, gave his name to Moses, (Exo. 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them). (English “Jehovah” and Hebrew “Yahweh”). Jesus later said that he told his Apostles God's name ,(WEBV), (John 17:6 I revealed your name to the people whom you have given me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me. They have kept your word). Also Jesus NEVER spoke of HIS WILL being done, it was ALWAYS the WILL of his Father, (John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which had sent me).

Jesus was sent to die for our sins, so that we might live ,(John 3:17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but rather so that through him, the world might be saved). Because Adam cost us our lives through his disobedience, which brought on sin ,(Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned). Jehovah God will give us a chance to be saved, so that we may gain eternal life.

He will do this by means of his Son Jesus ,(Rev. 19:11-16 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS).

he will rid this world of satan, (Rev.12:12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens, and you that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabited of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he know that he hath but a short time). wickedness, (Psa. 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off; But those who wait on the Lord, They shall inherit the earth). and ALL those who chose to live a way that's NOT pleasing to his Father ,(Matt. 7:21 Not every one that said unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that do the will of my Father which is in heaven). Though Jesus will be Victorious in doing his Father's WILL.

Victory will Rightfully belong to his Father. Why?, because it was his Father, Jehovah God, who's WILL was to make mankind the way he originally plan. Which was to live in peace and love. After ALL is done, Jesus would return ALL Power back to his Father. And once again, be in subjection to God, (1Cor. 15:28 Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere). Jesus is King for now, but Jehovah God was, is, and will always be the Rightful King. peace

[Honza]

Interesting!

[Morpheus]

Why did you leave out the most revealing scripture about these things jo-jo ?
The jews listening took up stones to stone Him to death.
He asked them, for which good work are you wanting to stone me for?
They responded not for any good work, but because you make yourself equal with God !
John 10:33

He clearly identified Himself with the Almighty.

When Peter asked, He stated, that anyone who has seen Him, has seen the Father.

The Bible clearly states, "God is Spirit".
But, as long prophesied, He became incarnate in Jesus Christ.

In time and space.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jojo50

question!, did Jesus say that he was “I AM” or is that the sayings of man? This is what Jesus said ,(John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent). Jesus also said this (John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believe in him should not perish, but have everlasting life). Jesus told us he that someone else SENT HIM, not himself. As well as he showed that there was someone else who is the “ONLY TRUE GOD.” and he wasn't referring to HIMSELF, because he included “ and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”

Jesus was NOT and is NOT the “I AM” of the Bible. This “IAM” later, gave his name to Moses, (Exo. 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them). (English “Jehovah” and Hebrew “Yahweh”). Jesus later said that he told his Apostles God's name ,(WEBV), (John 17:6 I revealed your name to the people whom you have given me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me. They have kept your word). Also Jesus NEVER spoke of HIS WILL being done, it was ALWAYS the WILL of his Father, (John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which had sent me).

Jesus was sent to die for our sins, so that we might live ,(John 3:17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but rather so that through him, the world might be saved). Because Adam cost us our lives through his disobedience, which brought on sin ,(Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned). Jehovah God will give us a chance to be saved, so that we may gain eternal life.

He will do this by means of his Son Jesus ,(Rev. 19:11-16 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS).

he will rid this world of satan, (Rev.12:12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens, and you that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabited of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he know that he hath but a short time). wickedness, (Psa. 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off; But those who wait on the Lord, They shall inherit the earth). and ALL those who chose to live a way that's NOT pleasing to his Father ,(Matt. 7:21 Not every one that said unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that do the will of my Father which is in heaven). Though Jesus will be Victorious in doing his Father's WILL.

Victory will Rightfully belong to his Father. Why?, because it was his Father, Jehovah God, who's WILL was to make mankind the way he originally plan. Which was to live in peace and love. After ALL is done, Jesus would return ALL Power back to his Father. And once again, be in subjection to God, (1Cor. 15:28 Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere). Jesus is King for now, but Jehovah God was, is, and will always be the Rightful King. peace

' did Jesus say that he was “I AM” or is that the sayings of man? '



Yes according to the Bible written by Man he did say he was I AM



My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

A lovely little Prayer

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Honza

My point is that if God won we would all start winning with Him. Whereas if I won then we would not. God's victory would initiate the victory of everyone. My victory would only initiate the victory of me.

God is all. So how is all to win? Only by God's victory. I highly doubt that Christ was God because His victory did not lead to the victory of one and all. He came two thousand years ago but the earth and the human race are not saved.

Now if God had won two thousand years ago it would all be over by now.

So, I've spoken about how time is irrelevant compared with a greater truth and reality, Honza. The timeless.
We however we are ensconced in, "space/time". Aren't we.

What will you do with with the prophesies in Revelation then, concerning the events yet to come in our future timeline, and including Christ's return?
Ignore and dismiss them?

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by sky123

' did Jesus say that he was “I AM” or is that the sayings of man? '


Yes according to the Bible written by Man he did say he was I AM

Let's see:


Jesus said:

"I am the bread of life."

"I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture."

"I am the good shepherd."

"I am the light of the world."

"I am the resurrection and the life."

"I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."

"I am the way, the truth, and the life."


But, I do not know where Christ claimed to be the I AM. Where is that mentioned in the Bible? Of course I doubt I will get an answer.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Why did you leave out the most revealing scripture about these things jo-jo ?
The jews listening took up stones to stone Him to death.
He asked them, for which good work are you wanting to stone me for?
They responded not for any good work, but because you make yourself equal with God !

Jesus was accuse by the Jews of claiming to be God. But the charge could not 'stick'. If a person is accused of something does not automatically make the person guilty of the charge.

Jesus was later arrested and executed, not for claiming to be God but for sedition.

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Let's see:


Jesus said:

"I am the bread of life."

"I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture."

"I am the good shepherd."

"I am the light of the world."

"I am the resurrection and the life."

"I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."

"I am the way, the truth, and the life."


But, I do not know where Christ claimed to be the I AM. Where is that mentioned in the Bible? Of course I doubt I will get an answer.

Read the bible