Questioning to whether AP and LD are the same..

The title roughly sums up the following post.
I want to somewhat debate if they are both the same as some people believe or if they are different as other people believe.

For explanation on my part when first starting out at attempting conscious AP I read a lot of people going about that they are both the same thing. Taking this idea to thought I though I would use Lucid Dreaming as a spring board for Astral Projection in several different ways.

The first way and few attempts at this were once realizing that I was in a dream and becoming lucid I would set my self aside the dream typically in a meditative position and demand to AP. This I tried during a few first attempts under the idea that they were different and that I could spring board from one to the other, in these attempts needless to say nothing happened the dream would continue for a short time or I would wake up instantly.

After a few of these previous noted attempts a friend posed the idea or notion that a lucid dream and astral projection could just be the same thing. So under this idea I attempted a few other tests.
One test once realizing that I was in a dream or possible projection I would request to go to my friend the one that posed the idea. I received his rough permission to do this as I am not the typical person that would mess about with someones privacy unless dire circumstances demanded it. As our schedules differed he would be at work when I attempted this so I knew what my destination was to be. So I tried a few attempts of this and needless to say this did not work either. Upon requesting to go to where my friend was I would be pulled rather quickly like a subsonic flying towards what I would hope my destination would be. Each time I could roughly make out trees buildings and such as I was quickly flown by but moving fast enough that is all I know them to be trees, plants, buildings etc but no real identification on what place was. Each time this occurred I ended up else where than my wanted destination or I woke up in mid flight.
Only one time did I end up relatively close to the intended destination. Though I did not end up at his work I ended up at his house. However his house was not there, in this dream it was daylight the floor plan of his house was there it was his yard but like if a tornado took the walls and roof off the house.
So I preceded to look about partially wondering if what I done had a successful outcome. Looking at the floor plan this was his house so I let this dream / possible AP continue. As I went up close to where his house was supposed to stand a figure that resembled my friend walked up and started to talk I took caution as mentioned above my friend was supposed to be at work so who ever this figure was was an imposter in my mind. The conversation started averagely with greetings and how are you's but began to take an unwanted dark turn so I came to the conclusion that this was not my friend and that my plans failed so I quite promptly woke up and noted the time. Later that day my friend called on his break I told him the rough time that this "dream" occurred and he confirmed he was at work at that time and I told him of the happenings.

A third set of tests was done by just controlling things as some people do in dreams. Personally I do not think one has the power or ability to control things in an astral projection like they could in a lucid dream aside from flying or transforming ones self. I am talking about things like closing large chasms of fire, making it rain then stop raining, flying into space then grabbing the earth and shaking the water off of it, controlling people about that are in the dream.

So personally from a conclusion of tests I deem that they are completely different, though I would not say that it is impossible to use one as a spring board to make it to the other I just have not been able to succeed at this yet.

Personally no success still trying to AP somewhat willingly. Had a few close calls when waking up in the morning with weird sounds/vibrations that a hand full of people go through similarly.
Yet still met with failure to separate to another conscious, AP etc etc.

Wondering what other peoples thoughts about this could be.
Whether or not someone believes them to be the same or not.

[astralsuzy]

You will get different answers from different people. To me astral projection and lucid dreaming are different. Astral projection is when you are aware that you are leaving your body.
Lucid dreaming is when you are already out of your body. You are aware that you are dreaming.

[Humanb]

Originally Posted by Havardr Novak

So personally from a conclusion of tests I deem that they are completely different, though I would not say that it is impossible to use one as a spring board to make it to the other I just have not been able to succeed at this yet.

This happened to me a couple of nights ago when i became lucid, the first thing i did was wake myself up mentally and i was vibrating really intensely and i left my body but was scared and re-entered it. (My first successful attempt.)

[skygazer]

Originally Posted by astralsuzy

You will get different answers from different people. To me astral projection and lucid dreaming are different. Astral projection is when you are aware that you are leaving your body.
Lucid dreaming is when you are already out of your body. You are aware that you are dreaming.

yes, the devil is in the details, as they say, but it's a detail that most fail to recognize.

[skygazer]

Hi HN, I feel it is important, to ask yourself why are you interested in ap, is it for entertainment purposes, for the extra sensory abilities they provide or is it for spiritual learning and growth? because based on what you experienced it seems you are being put through a kind of 'test' to determine where you will align.

Originally Posted by skygazer

Hi HN, I feel it is important, to ask yourself why are you interested in ap, is it for entertainment purposes, for the extra sensory abilities they provide or is it for spiritual learning and growth? because based on what you experienced it seems you are being put through a kind of 'test' to determine where you will align.

A little back story here..
Back.. about 2 years ago around November if I remember correctly. I started getting the vibrational stage in the middle of the night and it happened quite frequently for like 2 weeks straight almost every night. Of course first thoughts through my mind the typical "omg I may be dying".. would wake my self up immediately and stay awake for an hour or 2 before even attempting to sleep again. Started doing vast and vasts amounts of research into sleeping disorders, strange dreams, just anything I could come across things like that. And I would get pointed to insomnia, sleep apnea 9 times out of ten.
And then one day I tell my above pre mentioned friend about this and he is like hey astral projection your conscious is trying to leave your body. So he gives me some info on it and I also look else where, so now I have tons of books on the stuff.
Ever since that month it has not happened as frequently which is disappointing. Every now and then about once to twice a month the vibrations occur when waking up but have not made it passed that simply because they take me by surprise when they happen mostly. I may have had 2 instances where I made it out but they were rather short nothing more then like getting out of a car walking around it and getting back in.
But I deem all that at least those first 2ish weeks wake up call simply because I had no interest in such things before hand. Like possibly I started to stray from what I was meant for and that it was a wake up call.

But over all I want to AP for most of the reasons you put.. I am averagely a jack of all trades as is mostly because I like to learn new things.
So I would like to learn all sorts of info especially if its something I can use to or part with others that can help make the human endeavor more bearable because if you look at the stat things are in now one would understand.
Spiritual learning and growth is of course on my list because if one cannot be learn and grow himself how can he teach and guide others.
Possible some extra sensory abilities because some people say I would make a good shaman or soul healer and I do have a slight interest in that me but that is not on the top of the list.
Entertainment purposes ehhh if they happen they happen but that is not my goal but that does not mean I wont enjoy a swim at the beach or a good movie if chances such things come along.

[skygazer]

I get it. I'm not suggesting that one reason is better than the other, only that your superconscious self/soul may have a plan for you, and if you override the plan, well, it sends detractors your way until you get the point.

I happen to be a flying junky and if I had it my way it would be all I'd do. :)

[Astral Explorer]

You experience the same bodies and dimensions through dreaming and astral projection and so in my opinion they are the same. What is important to me is that I am in another body and another dimension, the process which happened prior to make that happen seems unimportant. But the lines that determine what is a lucid dream and an astral projection are incredibly blurred. I have had projections that I entered a conscious state already in another body and dimension no differently than one would in a lucid dream and I have had lucid dreams where I maintained a conscious state as I fell asleep and as I shifted into another body and dimension just as one would through astral projection. So in the end what is the difference? Where is the line that determines an experience is a lucid dream or an astral projection? The only line that exists is the one created by Humans with an incessant need to categorize everything which in the end limits them and their potential learning. Why waste your time trying to figure out if your dream was a projection or your projection was a dream? All that does is take away from the time you could spend having more experiences and/or learning from the experiences you are having. Everything doesn't need to be categorized nor does it always fit perfectly into some man-made box. Anything we can experience through dreaming we can experience through astral projection and anything we can experience through astral projection we can experience through dreaming. What category an experience falls into and what it is doesn't matter, the actual experience itself does.

You dont need a reason to AP man, not yet...
People are too focused on reasons, which does nothing but build a bigger wall around your personal prison. We are ALL multi dimensional, the switch is just off and if you start setting requirements and stipulations before even exploring the sheer curiousity of it all then you have done nothing but build yourself another prison.

The question...
"why do you want to AP?"
The answer...
"because I can!"

You will have plenty of time to figure the rest out, at your own pace, without pre determined expectations :)

Originally Posted by skygazer

I get it. I'm not suggesting that one reason is better than the other, only that your superconscious self/soul may have a plan for you, and if you override the plan, well, it sends detractors your way until you get the point.

I happen to be a flying junky and if I had it my way it would be all I'd do. :)

Thinking about it that is probably better put for my main reason wanting to AP, to get in touch with that super conscious and figure out what that plan is.

Originally Posted by CNC

You dont need a reason to AP man, not yet...
People are too focused on reasons, which does nothing but build a bigger wall around your personal prison. We are ALL multi dimensional, the switch is just off and if you start setting requirements and stipulations before even exploring the sheer curiousity of it all then you have done nothing but build yourself another prison.

The question...
"why do you want to AP?"
The answer...
"because I can!"

You will have plenty of time to figure the rest out, at your own pace, without pre determined expectations :)

This actually rings quite well with me. As of lately I have been like forget about goals or reasons and I want to do it because I can.
I do believe its possible to AP and not have a reason, doing it just because one can that is what originally what went through my mind when I first began learning about it.
After some time I began gathering reasons / possible wanting needs to AP because for some people I think having another valid reason aside from because they can helps them AP so I have been down this road.
After sometime though that the arrogant side is coming out from not having a successful AP that my mind is going back to I should be able to do it for no other reason than because I can.
So it still sticks with me that I should be able to do it because I can and no other reason.