Jesus was a rebel

[Kine Lea]

Originally Posted by Amilius777

Jesus was a rebel to the man-made systems, to the illusions of this world, a rebel to the Satanic governing disordered Empires, a rebel to the material limitations, [ ... ] but in the eyes of God, he was the perfect obedient peacemaker, truth speaker, and doer of the Divine Will.

Luckily I am not a rebel. However I have been reading Mark's Gospel with a growing awareness of an evident discrepancy in the way we interpret ancient narrative. The Jesus story is a mixture of spiritual history ... and fiction. The fictional content being necessary in order to condense the crowded events that really happened.

If you think on how we write and read books in our modern age as to how scrolls were written and read in ancient times, the obvious restriction on materials and storage space for example, it should come as no surprise there exists a codex within Mark's Gospel that tells a differing story to the traditional Christian interpretation.

[Morpheus]

The Almighty gave the perfect law through Moses.
The Jewish lawyers and leaders added laws upon laws to it, out of religious superstition. Regulation upon regulation.
About which Jesus said, that they put burdens upon people that they themselves couldn't carry!

He also stated that the world hates Him because He testifies that it's deeds are evil.

[Amilius777]

I actually don't think the Jesus story has any fiction

If anything there is even more to the story that is missing. The Gospels were not just attempts they were incomplete stories about Jesus. They are mainly about the Good News that he brought.

They didn't know Jesus personally but what was remembered about Jesus was his person as "the Christ". Jesus the man from Jesus the Christ are the same but different. Jesus the Christ began his ministry at 30 years old.

The healings recorded are only the ones recorded, same goes for the exorcisms and miracles. The reason they are repeated is because those were the only oral accounts available to the writers.

I know that is contrary to popular belief but what's been very interesting about Biblical Scholarship is that every few years scholars and archaeologists keep finding Relics that not only throw their skeptical research off a cliff but proves that the stories are real. Just recently they found evidence that not only did a King David exist but everything about Him and more has surfaced.

They always said "Eh he probably was based on a guy who was based on another guy who was seen as a king who may have ran a small little kingdom, not like the story told in the Bible". Welp. That hypothesis can go right in the garbage since they found relics proving David and his story's existence.

This is going to keep happening until many decades from now they find more evidence that Jesus was not only a holy man 2,000 years ago but a person who was worshipped as God or a god while he was alive and not something the RCC made up 3 centuries later.

I don't subscribe to Christianity as a religion but as a spiritual path.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Amilius777

I don't subscribe to Christianity as a religion but as a spiritual path.

That was me from age 28-48. Then it hit: Belief in any of the "spiritual" Jesus tenets I followed at the time, was still religion. Religion isn't about which specific tenets you follow, it's following tenets period. I sincerely appreciate your posts, they are full of wisdom. But they are also full of all kinds of religious belief-tenets. You are a Christian esotericist, and a student of esoteric Christian religion. You study "spiritually." But that's not what a spiritual path is, not what you think you're describing anyway. And I know you, you will argue this because of your certainty of belief, which is in itself a confirmation of sorts with regards to what I'm describing here. But I can guarantee you in a decade, or sooner or later, you will understand what I'm trying to tell you here. You cannot follow a spiritual path, and still believe Jesus anything. The spiritual path is the path of neither believing nor denying, which is one reason why it's also called the Middle Path. Religion is the path of the outer god-directed belief. The Middle Path is the path of the inner self-directed action.

[Kine Lea]

Originally Posted by Amilius777

I actually don't think the Jesus story has any fiction

If anything there is even more to the story that is missing. The Gospels were not just attempts they were incomplete stories about Jesus. They are mainly about the Good News that he brought.

That's OK, Amilius. I never really expected you to grasp my meaning.
The way I see it is that you're turning your back on the Transfiguration in favour of the Crucifixion.
A sad misinterpretation of Good News.

[neil]

Originally Posted by Kine Lea

That's OK, Amilius. I never really expected you to grasp my meaning.
The way I see it is that you're turning your back on the Transfiguration in favour of the Crucifixion.
A sad misinterpretation of Good News.

Kine lea..i do not respond to very many posts, and I only read this part of your posts, and wanted to respond.

"You are absolutely correct", transfiguration of the soul is the single most important thing that a soul being can do for themselves. And they can start whilst they are still in the human flesh.

It can only be accomplished by, recognizing that, only we our selves can start the ball rolling, by recognizing that, it is the reception of gods very essence, flowing into a soul, to such a degree, that a soul being has been transformed or reconstructed into a christed being....DEVINE.

AND IT IS GOD CREATORS, SINGLE MOST PRECIOUS GIFT, to all souls,....
if only all soul being's could realize that fact, & what it takes to receive god creators gift, and then honestly desire for it in truth, to be apart of us, in sufficient quantity, in order for it to have transformed us from a mortal being, & into an immortal being.

↑↑↑ The true sense & meaning of fully receiving the holy spirt... (THE HOLY SPIRIT....GODS ONE AND ONLY SON, WHOM GOD IS WELL PLEASED IN)...& HERE I AM NOT REFERING TO JESUS, AS BEING THE "HOLY SPIRIT" because jesus is the son of man..ONLY.

Yes the holy spiritual essence of god creator, "TRANSFORMING" us, is the way the soul was designed to eventually be...DEVINE.

And "no soul being" can be a rebel, once they have a resonable quantity of the "HUMBLING" holy spiritual essence of god creator within them....AND JESUS HAD SUFFICIENT QUANTITIES OF GODS GIFT, TO SUCH AN EXTENT, THAT TRANSFORMED JESUS, INTO THE MOST HUMBLEST MOST UNDERSTANDING DEVINE CHRISTED SOUL BEING, ON EARTH... "EVER".

HE WAS NOT A REBEL.....HE WAS AND STILL IS, FULLY AT EASE WITHIN AND WITHOUT OF HIMSELF, KIND AND CONSIDERATE, WITHOUT A REBELLIOUS PERSONALITY.

He could only be that way, and once a person has started to receive gods very essence for themselves, they will truly start to realize, that fact.

SINCERELY NEIL....SMILES.

.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Kine Lea

The way I see it is that you're turning your back on the Transfiguration in favour of the Crucifixion.

How does one turn their back on something that doesn't exist?

Also, is it possible to turn one's back on something that permeates every aspect of creation? Because everywhere you turn, you're facing it.

Human-analytical quandaries and the problem with 'deny or believe' spiritual tenets.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Estelwen

In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.

The Bible is a mystery wisdom manuscript. "Ate the consecrated bread" is occult-speak for ingesting a whole new wisdom and knowledge; making it of the body and not just the mind. Mind-knowledge is the old path, the Pisces Age path. The path of religion. It was once good enough to have a priest tell people what they needed to believe. No more. Now the individual must consume that knowledge and bring it into the body and the will. The individual has become the priest, and now partakes of knowledge that only priests once "ate."

The time of the priest, and the tenet, and intellectual understanding has come to an end.
It is now the time of experiential wisdom; knowledge derived from individual deed and action.

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by Baile

The Bible is a mystery wisdom manuscript. "Ate the consecrated bread" is occult-speak for ingesting a whole new wisdom and knowledge; making it of the body and not just the mind. Mind-knowledge is the old path, the Pisces Age path. The path of religion. It was once good enough to have a priest tell people what they needed to believe. No more. Now the individual must consume that knowledge and bring it into the body and the will. The individual has become the priest, and now partakes of knowledge that only priests once "ate."

The time of the priest, and the tenet, and intellectual understanding has come to an end.
It is now the time of experiential wisdom; knowledge derived from individual deed and action.

Baile,

This separation from the priests began, in earnest, with the reformation and the printing of the Bible. So this has been ongoing for the past 500 years. The possibility that eludes you is that experiential wisdom can, in many cases, simply confirm scripture. As for experiential wisdom, it is necessarily filtered to some extent by the ego. It, of course, can only convince yourself. A total reliance on the total truth of experiential wisdom can only result in a partial understanding of the truth because the experience of everyone, taken separately, cannot achieve a consensus. There can be no sharing of the truth if we are convinced that the only truth is that which we have experienced for ourselves. In other words, individual truth is essentially worthless. For example, under your standards, phenomena such as NDE's, miracles, etc. are without validity unless you have personally experienced them. This seemingly would also apply to the discoveries of science because they were achieved by others than yourself.

[Kine Lea]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Baile,

This separation from the priests began, in earnest, with the reformation and the printing of the Bible. So this has been ongoing for the past 500 years. The possibility that eludes you is that experiential wisdom can, in many cases, simply confirm scripture. As for experiential wisdom, it is necessarily filtered to some extent by the ego. It, of course, can only convince yourself. A total reliance on the total truth of experiential wisdom can only result in a partial understanding of the truth because the experience of everyone, taken separately, cannot achieve a consensus. There can be no sharing of the truth if we are convinced that the only truth is that which we have experienced for ourselves. In other words, individual truth is essentially worthless. For example, under your standards, phenomena such as NDE's, miracles, etc. are without validity unless you have personally experienced them. This seemingly would also apply to the discoveries of science because they were achieved by others than yourself.

I heard a funny coincidence this week while attending the last Bible Group meeting before Lent. The vicar told us about an amusing news item. The Church of England had had a national vote concerning the status quo and whether things should change, or should things remain as they are. The clergy voted in favor of change, but the majority vote is always with the bishops. The head bishop of England voted that things should remain as they are, and regardless of how the other bishops felt they sided with the head bishop as a show of loyalty ... except for one bishop who voted YES. Naturally everyone was very interested to know who this rebel was, (the vicar's words, not mine), and it turned out to be our very own bishop of Coventry.
When asked why he opposed the head bishop he replied that he never intended any rebellion (again, the vicar's words, not mine), and it seems he had accidentally pushed the wrong button, voting Yes when he had meant to vote No! Important as this was he had to make the statement public and in the newspapers.

And on that note I might say that this thread has been very illuminating. Often I've wondered about my own thoughts on the Jesus rebellion thing and have now come to the conclusion that I just see things in an alternative light, and now understand that I'm simply not a Crucifixionist - and will leave it at that.

On a personal note, our Bible Group read up to Mark: Chapter 14, with the last two chapters held over to be resumed after Easter - without me. Not being a Crucifixionist it now seems apt that Jesus had laid a curse on the fig tree before entering Jerusalem. A curse that withered the tree; witnessed by all on their leaving of the city. Just like the man with the withered hand healed on the Sabbath, a demarcation line was drawn that speaks volumes.