Ask A Vegan

[Debrah]

Originally Posted by Tobi

Your dog will be okay Slayer. My own dog showed me that, when little else could. And...might even be beside you at times. Because animals have Souls.
Yeah I know, it doesn't stop us really missing them. Missed my girlie today so I did, while walking on a perfect Spring day on Earth which we would have shared once. But she showed me how happy she is where she's gone. It took me absolutely by surprise too when that happened years ago!

In one of Robert Monroes books, he talked about meeting a little brown dog, who spoke to him and whom, he said, looked forward to moving 'up' because it had been 'good' at what it had been in its last life.

All life evolves, we are all part of a great continuum of life and death and rebirth and life again, over and over as we grow towards uniting in the end with the Source. The rocks, the trees, the oceans, the animals, all are part of this System, part of the Source. As so many ancient belief systems say, We are All One.

I also, look forward to a cuddle with my little Lucy and a few others, when we meet again

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by Tobi

Your dog will be okay Slayer. My own dog showed me that, when little else could. And...might even be beside you at times. Because animals have Souls.
Yeah I know, it doesn't stop us really missing them. Missed my girlie today so I did, while walking on a perfect Spring day on Earth which we would have shared once. But she showed me how happy she is where she's gone. It took me absolutely by surprise too when that happened years ago!

That better be true, but I'd like to think so as I may have had a visitation dream of my dog several days after his passing.

[Debrah]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

FYI I am a dog owner myself, or at least was because he died almost 7 years ago and here and then I still have a hard time getting over his death. You don't have to believe it if you don't want to, but I don't have to prove myself to the likes of you because I know better. I give not a single care in the world if you still suspect me to be an animal torturer or some sadistic staff member in an animal slaughterhouse.

So what? The slaughter of animals for food happens for thousands of years already dating back to prehistoric times, and is not likely to stop anytime soon. So what are you going to do about it? Animals get slaughtered and eaten, wether by other animals or by humans. That's life, and life ISN'T fair. And trust me when I say so, I can write an entire book about why life isn't fair. If you insist on blaming all the world problems on us meat eaters be my guest, but know that I will NOT stop eating meat because of some hardcore vegans crying their eyes out of their sockets. I respect your food of choice, but in return I ask you to do the same.

And for Christ's sake let me repeat it again once more before this escalates even further; even though I eat meat, I am still AGAINST animal cruelty and unncecessary suffering in slaughterhouses.

I have no doubt that you loved your dog. But loving one species doesn't change the fact that you are providing a market for the brutalized bodies of others and they suffer just as much as that dog you loved.

Pointing at the behaviour of bygone years is really not much of an argument because humanity used to do all kinds of things without any hesitation but now we don't accept them because we've grown and evolved to realize what a horror was being done. Hanging, drawing and quartering your enemies used to be an event that amounted to entertainment for the mindless masses. Slavery was acceptable, burning people at the stake, sending little children up chimneys to clean them, with a rope tied around their waists in case they died and little bodies had to be dragged out....all acceptable once upon a time. But we learned, we grew, we evolved and we don't do those things anymore.

And we are still evolving, both physically and more importantly, spiritually, as more and more people are beginning to see the horror of how we treat animals. For a number of reasons, food companies are beginning to either develop their own lines of plant based protein foods or the big companies like Tyson are buying into companies that are already producing those kinds of foods. And the numbers of vegans and vegetarians is growing daily. In Canada, pig meat sales is down 31% since 1999, beef down 19% and polls are showing that the veg'n numbers are up and growing around the world.....The writing is on the wall. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle26373758/

Life isn't fair you say? And who makes it unfair to the animals? You do. You're not responsible for all the worlds problems, the wars, the abuses of terrible people, unfair politicians, etc., but you are responsible for what the animals endure. The fact that you can ask me to respect that choice of yours all the while talking about humane slaughter, etc., and with the plethora of video evidence of what goes on for those animals from birth to death, only tells me that you just don't get it and that it's only words to you. That would be like the guy who enjoys kicking his dog and watching it cringe and scream, asking you to respect his choices.

I guess the good thing is that as more and more women are beginning to see what humanity is doing to the animals, they are raising their children with a new ideal, new appreciations for ALL the animals and a willingness to extend mercy. And as those children grow up, they will happily eat foods that didn't come at the terrible price of misery and suffering and they will raise their children likewise and meanwhile, food production will continue to change according to the new paradigm. And one day, you will be like the dinosaurs, a part of a past that all the animals will be happy is gone.

I've spent ten years as a vegan, following this stuff, watching the videos, reading the articles on not only the cruelty but the effects on the environment and on human health and your diet is indefensible from every perspective. It just is. And you can be as angry as you want and curse and splutter as you are reading this, it doesn't change anything about the issue. What we do to animals in food industries, entertainment industries, medical industries, clothing industries is beyond acceptable. And we have the knowledge and technology now that we don't have to do it.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by Debrah

I have no doubt that you loved your dog. But loving one species doesn't change the fact that you are providing a market for the brutalized bodies of others and they suffer just as much as that dog you loved..

I tend to divide domestic animals in two seperate areas: companions or livestock. To me slaughterhouse animals are nothing more than livestock, wether you'll hate me for it or not. Like pets, they should be taken care of very well and their slaughtering should be humane. But in the end, they're still just livestock.

Pointing at the behaviour of bygone years is really not much of an argument because humanity used to do all kinds of things without any hesitation but now we don't accept them because we've grown and evolved to realize what a horror was being done. Hanging, drawing and quartering your enemies used to be an event that amounted to entertainment for the mindless masses. Slavery was acceptable, burning people at the stake, sending little children up chimneys to clean them, with a rope tied around their waists in case they died and little bodies had to be dragged out....all acceptable once upon a time. But we learned, we grew, we evolved and we don't do those things anymore.

Even though those kind of things have decreased in the modern era, you must've buried your head in the sand if you think we're not doing those things anymore. Maybe not in the civilised Western world, but familiar stuff is still happening in dozen of other parts in the world...

And we are still evolving, both physically and more importantly, spiritually, as more and more people are beginning to see the horror of how we treat animals. For a number of reasons, food companies are beginning to either develop their own lines of plant based protein foods or the big companies like Tyson are buying into companies that are already producing those kinds of foods. And the numbers of vegans and vegetarians is growing daily. In Canada, pig meat sales is down 31% since 1999, beef down 19% and polls are showing that the veg'n numbers are up and growing around the world.....The writing is on the wall. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle26373758/

Hate to break it to you, but eating animals will not die out anytime soon, wether you believe it or not. There are still plenty of people like me who like to eat meat.

Life isn't fair you say? And who makes it unfair to the animals? You do. You're not responsible for all the worlds problems, the wars, the abuses of terrible people, unfair politicians, etc., but you are responsible for what the animals endure. The fact that you can ask me to respect that choice of yours all the while talking about humane slaughter, etc., and with the plethora of video evidence of what goes on for those animals from birth to death, only tells me that you just don't get it and that it's only words to you. That would be like the guy who enjoys kicking his dog and watching it cringe and scream, asking you to respect his choices.

lol take a look at my profile... I work in a cheese factory, not in an animal slaughtehouse. Therefore, I am NOT responsible in any way for what kind of suffering animals endure, thank you very much. So now you can quit trying to inflict guilt upon me and convert me to vegan side, because it won't happen.

I guess the good thing is that as more and more women are beginning to see what humanity is doing to the animals, they are raising their children with a new ideal, new appreciations for ALL the animals and a willingness to extend mercy. And as those children grow up, they will happily eat foods that didn't come at the terrible price of misery and suffering and they will raise their children likewise and meanwhile, food production will continue to change according to the new paradigm. And one day, you will be like the dinosaurs, a part of a past that all the animals will be happy is gone.

*yawn* cute story. But I'm too old for fairytales.

I've spent ten years as a vegan, following this stuff, watching the videos, reading the articles on not only the cruelty but the effects on the environment and on human health and your diet is indefensible from every perspective. It just is. And you can be as angry as you want and curse and splutter as you are reading this, it doesn't change anything about the issue. What we do to animals in food industries, entertainment industries, medical industries, clothing industries is beyond acceptable. And we have the knowledge and technology now that we don't have to do it.

I am not the angry one here... You seem more frustrated than me with your futile attempts to make me feel sorry and change my mind from eating meat.

[Lucky 1]

Originally Posted by Debrah

You supplement your diet too. It's just that you use the broken tortured bodies of helpless animals to do it.

When I said supplements. ....I refer to artifical man made vitamins. .....meat is food not a supplement.

I also don't participate very much whentit comes to buying commercially produced meat.....I go out and kill it and process it myself. ....I have two big deep freezes full of venison. ....elk....fish caught out in the gulf...etc.

About the only meat we buy is chickens because anyone who's raised chickens knows there too nasty a bird to have around the house.....

[Debrah]

You're still supplementing because you can't make that vitamin in your body or from the sun.

And by the way, I had a couple of rescued chickens and while I wouldn't have let them in the house, they have great personalities and are endlessly curious when you have them hanging out around the yard.

[Debrah]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

I tend to divide domestic animals in two seperate areas: companions or livestock. To me slaughterhouse animals are nothing more than livestock, wether you'll hate me for it or not. Like pets, they should be taken care of very well and their slaughtering should be humane. But in the end, they're still just livestock.



Even though those kind of things have decreased in the modern era, you must've buried your head in the sand if you think we're not doing those things anymore. Maybe not in the civilised Western world, but familiar stuff is still happening in dozen of other parts in the world...



Hate to break it to you, but eating animals will not die out anytime soon, wether you believe it or not. There are still plenty of people like me who like to eat meat.




lol take a look at my profile... I work in a cheese factory, not in an animal slaughtehouse. Therefore, I am NOT responsible in any way for what kind of suffering animals endure, thank you very much. So now you can quit trying to inflict guilt upon me and convert me to vegan side, because it won't happen.



*yawn* cute story. But I'm too old for fairytales.



I am not the angry one here... You seem more frustrated than me with your futile attempts to make me feel sorry and change my mind from eating meat.

I read your comment and all I see is justification for doing something that doesn't need to be done, is harming the environment and when all is said and done, gives your health in general, a worse outcome when it comes to heart disease, diabetes, obesity and various cancers.

And by the way, Portugal just made it law that vegan options have to be available in prisons, schools and hospitals. China has also made it known that they will be working towards their population cutting meat consumption by 50% by 2030. Germany has banned meat at public government functions. Three US hospitals are actively promoting vegan diets to patients and the Oakland California school board has already replaced two or three of their meat inclusive dishes with vegan offerings and have seen a cost savings and have measured the amount of carbon reduction that their change has engendered. And the UN is urging the world to switch to a meat/dairy free diet. So whether you like it or not, changes are happening and while I'm pretty sure it won't happen in my lifetime and maybe not in my children's lifetime, it will come.


https://www.theguardian.com/environm...meat-free-diet


And you're right, I am angry when I think about how helpless animals are abused and mistreated and mutilated from birth to death. I find it quite bizarre and amazing that people will call themselves 'animal lovers' and then participate in the most horrendous treatments by providing the market for the products. Cognitive dissonance I guess. I'm guess that if I came along and kicked your dog down the stairs and broke its leg and then walked away (before he passed on), you'd be pretty angry too. Sadly you don't offer that same consideration to other species.

And don't get me wrong, I look back on my own past meat consumption and admit that even I called myself an animal lover. I didn't understand either, but one day my awakening began and it continues to this day and I'm at the point where I offer to other creatures what I would hope for myself, mercy, kindness, consideration for their needs......

[Tobi]

It's true that all species are capable of emotion and thought; of feeling happiness, and pain, mental, emotional and physical. All species are capable of feeling love care and kindness too and responding to it.
They also know on some level, when they are being denied a natural life and they certainly know most acutely, when they are in the slaughterhouse environment.
Birds, though not mammals, are also capable of all those things. I can only presume fish most likely are too, though I have not been able to really observe and study fish and their responses.

I think though it's good to be informed, and certainly to know what meat eating involves, deciding whether or not to eat meat has to be a decision which comes from the Heart. Very few times words -especially someone else's -will move the Heart. Only an experience will.
The honest thing about a hunter is that he/she is fully aware of what is happening every moment during the hunt and preparation of the meat. A hunter is never absent from the reality of what is happening.

[Lucky 1]

[quote=TobiThe honest thing about a hunter is that he/she is fully aware of what is happening every moment during the hunt and preparation of the meat. A hunter is never absent from the reality of what is happening.[/QUOTE]


Well said Tobi.... I am a life long hunter....to me the hunt is sacred and a fulfilment of 200,000 years of homosapiens genetic heritage as hunters.......it is truly who and what we are as a species.

The hunt is literally "the circle of life"........seeing a consumed carcass in the woods either by animal or human is a reminder that all things die including us......

The deer eat the plants.....we eat the deer....and when we die our bodies fertilise the soil that grows the plants that the animals eat....the circle of life

These days hunters and enviromentalists are pretty much one in the same...No one knows and loves the animals and appreciates the wild places like those who walk the woods and hunt. ....


To draw a bow and loose an arrow at game is a feeling of aliveness that a non hunter cannot know

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by Debrah

I read your comment and all I see is justification for doing something that doesn't need to be done, is harming the environment and when all is said and done, gives your health in general, a worse outcome when it comes to heart disease, diabetes, obesity and various cancers.

I agree that too much meat isn't healthy, but it's just another case of making a mountain out of a molehill. We humans are and WILL always be omnivores, nature designed us that way wether you like it or not. Humans have much shorter digestive systems than herbivores and don’t have the specialized organs to digest cellulose, the main fiber in plants. We've been eating meat for thousands of years, and blaming every new illness and health problems on eating meat makes no sense. Meat doesn’t raise your risk of cardiovascular disease or diabetes, the main reason for those false claims is that meat just happens to be high in saturated fat. And there are plenty of people who live 'healthy' as vegans but nonetheless catch some nasty illness or even get cancer anyway.

And by the way, Portugal just made it law that vegan options have to be available in prisons, schools and hospitals. China has also made it known that they will be working towards their population cutting meat consumption by 50% by 2030. Germany has banned meat at public government functions. Three US hospitals are actively promoting vegan diets to patients and the Oakland California school board has already replaced two or three of their meat inclusive dishes with vegan offerings and have seen a cost savings and have measured the amount of carbon reduction that their change has engendered. And the UN is urging the world to switch to a meat/dairy free diet. So whether you like it or not, changes are happening and while I'm pretty sure it won't happen in my lifetime and maybe not in my children's lifetime, it will come.

As I said, the consumption of meat has been happening since the dawn of civilisation so I have my doubts it will ever disappear. It's the same thing with smoking which is getting more and more boycotted while there are many people who will always keep smoking no matter under what circumstances. We simply won't accept any changes forcefully shoven down our throats by PETA hippies and grass eaters who think they can decide for us what we should and shouldn't eat.

I'm guess that if I came along and kicked your dog down the stairs and broke its leg and then walked away (before he passed on), you'd be pretty angry too. Sadly you don't offer that same consideration to other species.

What in the...??? Comparing those two things are just plain stupid... Kicking a dog downstairs for no reason is animal cruelty and not to mention, unnecessary while killing an animal (in a HUMANE way) for food at least serves a purpose... Tell me, can you not see the difference between the two or do you simply not WANT to see the difference because it's not right up your alley? I personally think it's the latter.