Why so much pain?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

This is a world full of immense horror that most of us are shielded from... This is much different than the idea that the universe is perfect, it's just us that cause the suffering. That idea leaves little room for compassion.

Just in case you can relate to a spirit-based perspective, Seawolf:

From Ch.2 of The Bhagavad Gita:

That which is not, shall never be; that which is, shall never cease to be. To the wise, these truths are self-evident.
The Spirit, which pervades all that we see, is imperishable. Nothing can destroy the Spirit.
The material bodies which this Eternal, Indestructible, Immeasurable Spirit inhabits are all finite. Therefore fight, O Valiant Man!
He who thinks that the Spirit kills, and he who thinks of It as killed, are both ignorant. The Spirit kills not, nor is It killed.
It was not born; It will never die, nor once having been, can It cease to be. Unborn, Eternal, Ever-enduring, yet Most Ancient, the Spirit dies not when the body is dead.
He who knows the Spirit as Indestructible, Immortal, Unborn, Always-the-Same, how should he kill or cause to be killed?
As a man discards his threadbare robes and puts on new, so the Spirit throws off Its worn-out bodies and takes fresh ones.
Weapons cleave It not, fire burns It not, water drenches It not, and wind dries It not.
It is impenetrable; It can be neither drowned nor scorched nor dried. It is Eternal, All-pervading, ...

And from Matthew, Ch.6:

Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? ...

Ex-peer-iences of 'pain' and 'loss' are passing things.

[Starman]

The vast majority of people in this world are simultaneously victims of horror and perpetrators of horror at the same time.
When we buy products that are made in places like China we may be contributing to slave labor or some other horror,
and China is not the only country.

I went to Afghanistan last year for 3-weeks to do some work with Doctors Without Borders and the resilience of refugees
who we were trying to serve astonished me. Most of them from war-torn Syria, and most of them did not complain about
their situation. Most had lost someone, or even their whole family, due to war.

I saw the same thing as a U.S. Army combat medic during the Vietnam War. Children playing and laughing in bombed out
cities or villages with such a joy-filled spirit in the face of such adversity. People in the western world will cry if they stub
their toe, or consider it a major travesty if they don't get to watch their favorite T.V. show. Personally I think people in
western societies are over diagnosed for what they think ails them. People in so-called "third-world" countries do not have
the luxury of diagnostic labels and pharmaceuticals like they do in the west. There are many who would gladly exchange
their suffering for the suffering some say they are having here in the U.S.

I have simplified and downsized my lifestyle and that invites less for me to have to take care of. A Buddhist saying "own
no possessions that none may own you" is applicable; as what we own owns us; we give what we own, material goods
and even other relationships, our time, attention, and often our money or other resources to maintain or repair, etc.;
in this way we are owned by what we say is mine. If we embrace simplicity in living it often alleviates suffering;
also volunteer work with those less fortunate can remove perceptions of our own suffering.

People in developed nations generally live longer than people in underdeveloped nations, but people in developed nations,
like the U.S., Japan, Switzerland, etc., take their own life and commit suicide much more than people in underdeveloped nations.
This was cited in the U.S. Surgeon Generals Report on Suicide. If this report is correct, why do you think people in rich nations
commit suicide more than people in poor nations? Maybe it is because our expectations are greater and subsequently our
disappointments are greater. It is all just an illusion, a plastic fantastic illusive kaleidoscope; an ongoing unfolding drama on
the stage of human life; detachment helps.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Starman

I went to Afghanistan last year for 3-weeks to do some work with Doctors Without Borders and the resilience of refugees
who we were trying to serve astonished me. Most of them from war-torn Syria, and most of them did not complain about
their situation. Most had lost someone, or even their whole family, due to war.

It seems to be true that people who suffer alot of trauma are more resilient. I've noticed that in myself, that I can handle alot of pain, and it's due to being traumatized throughout my life. But this shouldn't give the impression that it's a good thing. There's nothing good about living all your life feeling like your world is going to collapse at any moment.

Sometimes animals can be traumatized and then their whole body shakes. Then afterwards they get up and move on as if nothing happened. But humans seem to store our trauma in our bodies. It 'leaks' out through attracting abusive people in our lives, addictions, self-harm, isolation, anxiety, depression, etc. Time does not heal trauma either, that's a myth.

Trauma and abuse are neglected subjects in this world for something that has such a huge impact on our lives. The ignorance about it in this day and age is astounding. It may be that it's too hard to face, but I also think TPTB may benefit from this ignorance. Healthy people that can think and feel for themselves is not good for the machine.

[Starman]

Time may not heal trauma but working on the cause of your trauma does help to alleviate it. I’ve had a lot of trauma in my life as well; Vietnam and going blind for 5-years was just the tip of it. I have done a lot of work on myself, and continue to work on myself; self-help and self-management, sometimes with the help of a professional, slowly filled in the holes in my life. Everything in our existence is based on touch and it is important for us to get in touch with ourselves. The sensation of touch is feeling and the largest organ in the human body is the skin, which transmits the sensation of touch from the outside, but we can also feel and be in touch with our inner state of being.

Spiritual development, meditation, journaling, and reflective thought on my issues, especially from my childhood, helped me when I applied what I had discovered. The spiritual journey, especially doing quiet meditation on a daily basis, takes our attention into ourselves and we encounter all that we have stuffed down in ourselves. But in quiet meditation we grow, or become aware of, our inner light, and that light fills in the torn areas and strains which we may have in our being. In meditation going deep inside we come across all that we have stuffed inside ourselves, all that we have hid from or grapple with.

At age 70 it has taken me most of my life, working on myself from a young age, to get to where I am today, and as I stated I am still doing the “Great Work.” The Great Work of humanity is the work of self-transformation, it is the work each individual must embark on, and lots of people don‘t want to do the work. They make up excuses, etc. Because doing the work means I have to face those things which I may have hid from; like pain, shame, or intense feelings which crop up every now and then.

After awhile we may come to realize that in the spiritual journey all I have to do is let go and spirit will do the work for me; but most people do not know how to let go. They hold on to their pain like it was valuable to them. I went into the mental health profession so that I could get some tools to help work on my own mental and emotional issues, and along the way I was able to help others, and I learned a great deal from my patients; they did more for me than I did for them.

Healing is possible if a person persists. If necessary there are natural healing methods to assist in the process. A person has to do their own research and write things down; write down their feelings and thoughts so that they can get them out and on paper to later review; look at remedies that address causes and not just symptoms. People should know themselves better than anyone else and part of knowing your self is knowing what works for you and what does not work for you.

There is so much out there today that is useful in healing your self; and no one has tried everything, but people do give up on themselves. Good and bad are not as irrelevant as how do you feel and what do you do when unpleasant feelings come up. Everything which we do is based on feelings, and some may say that they don’t feel anything but all that means is that they feel something which they call “nothing.” We should take an interest in ourselves enough to make working on ourselves a life-long endeavor. Believe me, I have had my portion of hell, and I didn’t like it. Trauma is nothing more than an alteration in your own energy and it takes study and research to understand this; that is research on your self; you should research you.

Unconditional love; like what we have deep within us, heals all wounds, so the bottom line for me is that I have to allow myself to be loved, and that starts with learning to love myself. Because we do things to ourselves that if someone else were to do to us we would want to call the police and have them arrested. We beat ourselves up and then blame it on “the world,” or someone else. People, generally, do not want to take responsibility for their lives; but when you are in the presence of spirit your responsibility is minimal and you just sit back and enjoy the ride. Many of us have never consciously been in the presence of spirit and don't know what is meant by that but if you constantly do inner work, energy work, on your self eventually that presence is revealed.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

It seems to be true that people who suffer alot of trauma are more resilient. I've noticed that in myself, that I can handle alot of pain, and it's due to being traumatized throughout my life. But this shouldn't give the impression that it's a good thing. There's nothing good about living all your life feeling like your world is going to collapse at any moment.

Sometimes animals can be traumatized and then their whole body shakes. Then afterwards they get up and move on as if nothing happened. But humans seem to store our trauma in our bodies. It 'leaks' out through attracting abusive people in our lives, addictions, self-harm, isolation, anxiety, depression, etc. Time does not heal trauma either, that's a myth.

Trauma and abuse are neglected subjects in this world for something that has such a huge impact on our lives. The ignorance about it in this day and age is astounding. It may be that it's too hard to face, but I also think TPTB may benefit from this ignorance. Healthy people that can think and feel for themselves is not good for the machine.

Some paragraphs from post #163 in the thread "Awareness "Speaks" which I think have a bearing on what you said and so may be of interest to you, Seawolf:

The human being suffers far more than other animal species upon your planet, for humans have deep and complex psychological thought processes that other animals in your world do not possess. Most animal species other than human are very psychologically strong, although having much simpler thought processes. If humans were to create extensive damage to the planet as to severely reduce the population, many species of your planet would still survive and quickly learn to thrive without humans, even receiving help from benign extraterrestrial forces. In fact, many species would even welcome the situation that there were less humans upon the planet to cause further damage!

We are not negating the seriousness or severity of the destruction that has occurred and that which still occurs, we are simply offering a less fear-based take on the events of your world as we perceive them. Your conclusions on the state of your world are based upon observations you have made that fit within the parameters of a range of consciousness that you are attuned to based upon your beliefs. Were you to alter those beliefs, you would perceive your world accordingly to a different parameter of consciousness.

Much of what humans perceive as "reality" is heavily influenced by fear-based thinking, making you great exaggerators of what you perceive as "evil," yet the animal species of your planet literally live within different states of consciousness which are much more aligned with their intrinsic natures. Human consciousness is far more transparent now than it has been for many, many millennia, which automatically means that humanity is actually less prone to self-destruct. The fear of self-destruction is more apparent and less buried within unconsciousness, making it easier to acknowledge and heal.

yes. pain be case-sensitived aliked personal we got to get privilaged.

[Seawolf]

Thanks Davidsun and Starman! Yes, getting in touch with our feelings and body is so important. Eventually emotions can be unfrozen and healed. The most powerful practice I've found to help with psychiatric disorders is from the book Sacred Therapies, which is kundalini yoga sets for specific disorders. It covers most of them.

I've searched a long time for things that actually work, and this has been the best so far. Doing the exercises daily combined with having a good therapist experienced in treating trauma is pure gold. :-)

[Starman]

Good for you Seawolf, it also took me awhile, after much searching, to find what works for me,
and I have also put myself in psychotherapy many times.

From the book Graceful Passages:

LETTING YOURSELF BE LOVED,
From “Lessons From the Heart," By Lew Epstein

No one has ever prepared us for this experience,
We think it’s the end – no,
It’s another beginning.
It’s knowing that you are loved,
It’s not easy, letting yourself be loved,
Because we’ve learned to judge ourselves,
We’re always judging ourselves.

But I’ve learned to listen that I was loved. I am loved!
But then I would forget that I was loved.
Those were the most painful times for me…
Forgetting that I was loved.

So you’ve let yourself be loved while you’ve been here.
And you judged yourself.
And you’ve forgotten that you were loved,
And you became alone…but you will always be here.

You are blessed, you are forgiven, you are an angel.
You have to listen that you are loved and you have to forgive all the time.
Thank you for letting me love you, thank you for letting yourself be loved.

[Joyce]

[quote=Starman]

The vast majority of people in this world are . .

Such a great post! You have articulated precisely how I feel about every point you've made!!

I also feel quite strongly about how people become so wrapped up in all the words of great masters that many can't/don't translate them into everyday life, too well; today we have far too much "stuff" cluttering our hearts and minds. In my humble opinion, this is, in great part, creating strange and detrimental behaviors today.

And thanks again starman; just read your post on Letting Yourself be Loved