An Eye for An Eye. - Spiritually !

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

If I had my life over, I would have definitely made different choices, knowing what I know now and I spent years resenting the choices I DID make, until God said "I only gave you what you wanted at the time and not what you needed...I had other plans for you, but you didn't want to listen..."
.

I know that you like brutal honest.
So, I will give it to you.

In this life, your soul wanted to experience the life that it had created.
Even you get a chance to do it over again in this life, as you are in the current human physical form, you would follow the same path.

If you were expecting "unconditional love" or something similar from your marriage and your children, that is your human attachment and expectation, .... not valuing your experience, the most important in your journey.

Regret does not exist in soul journey.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Ziusudra

I know that you like brutal honest.
So, I will give it to you.

In this life, you soul wanted to experience the life that it has created.
Even you get a chance to do it over again in this life, as you are in the current human physical form, you would follow the same path.

If you were expecting "unconditional love" or something similar from your marriage and your children, that is your human attachment and expectation, .... not valuing your experience, the most important in your journey.

Regret does not exist in soul journey.

Thank you for your honesty and allow me to be candid in return.

If your aforementioned scenarios did eventuate, would killing or torturing those who did so to you or your loved ones change anything? If a religious zealot killed your loved ones, would killing them, or blaming the religion or God bring them back?

It may bestow a sense of satisfaction, but what is that compared to love?

If I didn't know, of course I would have made the same choices, but knowing what the outcome would have been, would have swayed my decision making process somewhat...and that I can be assured of...but the fact is that after all is said and done, it DID happen, and resenting my choices won't get me anywhere NOW, will it? so all I can do, is live the rest of my life as IF it never happened, even though it did...and to live the life I should have continued with, before I became distracted by selfish desires.

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Thank you for your honesty and allow me to be candid in return.

If your aforementioned scenarios did eventuate, would killing or torturing those who did so to you or your loved ones change anything? If a religious zealot killed your loved ones, would killing them, or blaming the religion or God bring them back?

It may bestow a sense of satisfaction, but what is that compared to love?

If we are talking about forgiveness here, Forgiveness is unnecessary, as I stated on my previous posting.
I agree.
Revenge will not change the event that is already passed.
But the question again is, considering the degree of the crimes, do you really think that "Enlightenment" will prevent you from hurting/killing those who committed such crimes towards you and your love ones. - Let's say that you are given a chance to carry out your revenge. You are given a weapon. Those criminals are naked w/o weapons and tied up helplessly in a locked room.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

If I didn't know, of course I would have made the same choices, but knowing what the outcome would have been, would have swayed my decision making process somewhat...and that I can be assured of...but the fact is that after all is said and done, it DID happen, and resenting my choices won't get me anywhere NOW, will it? so all I can do, is live the rest of my life as IF it never happened, even though it did...and to live the life I should have continued with, before I became distracted by selfish desires.

Regret is pointless since the choices probably were predetermined by your soul.
If it is in your destiny per your soul's creation, you will live the life that you now wish.
Keep in mind, your life is not your own. Our physical form is just a vehicle for our souls.

[Ziusudra]

I hate keep making duplication.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Ziusudra

If we are talking about forgiveness here, Forgiveness is unnecessary, as I stated on my previous posting.
I agree.
Revenge will not change the event that is already passed.
But the question again is, considering the degree of the crimes, do you really think that "Enlightenment" will prevent you from hurting/killing those who committed such crimes towards you and your love ones. - Let's say that you are given a chance to carry out your revenge. You are given a weapon. Those criminals are naked w/o weapons and tied up helplessly in a locked room.


Regret is pointless since the choices probably were predetermined by your soul.
If it is in your destiny per your soul's creation, you will live the life that you now wish.
Keep in mind, your life is not your own. Our physical form is just a vehicle for our souls.

In as much as I go on about being a vigilante against human stupidity, that is only a pipe dream...It is me, expressing my sheer and utter disgust...and I probably WOULD pull the trigger on those who have been convicted of placing sewing needles in strawberries, but then again, I am FAR from being "enlightened" but I also realise that dragging my vibration down to their level won't solve anything either...in fact I honestly believe that this is what they hope to achieve by doing such heinous crimes in the first place....to kill a killer, means that they have "won"... We would hope to be "better" than they are, but we can see we are just the same underneath, when push comes to shove.

Even though I don't really show it much, I am a compassionate person deep down and although I am not a forgiving person, I cannot take responsibility for the death of another human...no matter how much I would like to.. because, contrary to popular belief, I am NOT God...and if Karma is meant to bite them in the ar$e, it will...Just as it has bitten me..

Also, because I cannot remember it, doesn't mean it did not happen...for example, my father is a pedophile who raped and abused me (and nine other children)... I pointed a loaded shotgun at him once, but didn't have the guts to pull the trigger...If I did, I could have saved a few other children the misery that I went through....I regret that decision as well...but now, he's gonna die in solitary confinement in Long Bay Jail...However, maybe last life, or another, I raped him as a child? who knows eh?

Maybe my daughters were my parents in another life and I told them to sod off when I was 16 and left home never to be seen again...who knows eh?

Maybe this "eye for an eye" thing has been playing out since time immemorial, but we are all none the wiser and believe that "this life" is the only one that either exists or even matters?

Food for thought anyway.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Interesting perspectives ...

Love cannot be a pretended emotion. To emote love, we need to ascend. Once love enabled, no doubt the exalted energy dissolves all lower aspects within it but surely that does not mean that we allow ourselves to be bitten by a rabid dog. Unless we cannot resist the event.

So we shoot the rabid dog but not as revenge or fear... just a task that needs to be done. Clinically. Why not? What’s love got to do with it?

If oppressed and finding ourselves powerless to resist, we have no choice but to reconcile ... accept. If we do have a choice, why would we allow ourselves to be abused... on matters of consequence? For day to day trivialities we may ignore the jibes and taunts of the lesser evolved or let us say those who tend to create discord knowing that each acts according to his or her own state of consciousness but to sacrifice oneself needlessly on matters of significance hardly seems advisable.

[Chanine]

Originally Posted by Dan_SF

Ah now i would not fall again to answer in the Christian forum, for here, in the Spiritual section, my answer is more appropriate.

In the past, (some 2~3 years ago), i have had these same thoughts coming up.

"An Eye for an Eye, A tooth for a Tooth." - from the Bible, obviously. (German language, if anyone wants to know all the details)

Why were it coming up, i do not know, it seemed to be totally random. And by selftalk iv always explained it to myself like this:


Restore the Eye or the Tooth, to the one who lost it.

That's the only valid solution, which would go with God's thinking. (read: which would please the Lord)

We all experience the loss of our godself and restoring the eye or tooth is referring to the returning to sitting at gods feet, an eye for an eye tooth for a tooth is referring to unity..seeing through the illusion that we are separate from God, it is often misinterpreted as revenge on another person even the act of revenge indicates unity and love as it's a reminder that we are often lost from our true self which is unconditional godself

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Interesting perspectives ...

Love cannot be a pretended emotion. To emote love, we need to ascend. Once love enabled, no doubt the exalted energy dissolves all lower aspects within it but surely that does not mean that we allow ourselves to be bitten by a rabid dog. Unless we cannot resist the event.

So we shoot the rabid dog but not as revenge or fear... just a task that needs to be done. Clinically. Why not? What’s love got to do with it?

If oppressed and finding ourselves powerless to resist, we have no choice but to reconcile ... accept. If we do have a choice, why would we allow ourselves to be abused... on matters of consequence? For day to day trivialities we may ignore the jibes and taunts of the lesser evolved or let us say those who tend to create discord knowing that each acts according to his or her own state of consciousness but to sacrifice oneself needlessly on matters of significance hardly seems advisable.

I believe it is a case of ethics or morality over love, because we believe, as humans that a "rabid human" would have more individual rights than a "rabid dog" and under what circumstances would those rights be forfeited? It is also the same arguments those against capital punishment use to justify their position.

I mean, I could understand a parent killing somebody who killed their child even though I disagree with it personally, but when something like this starts, it isn't difficult to get on the "slippery slope" argument either.

For example, the more stray dogs there are, the more chance that a child is going to get bitten by a rabid one....so, the council does their "risk assessments" does their "harm minimisation" strategies...and decides to do a massive cull of ALL stray dogs...and of course, the animal rights activists will raise a big hoo hah about that, until council says "well, if you love them SO much, take them all home to live in YOUR house" so the animal rights activists build shelters for them...but the government gives them no funding...So what can they do?

With the global population reaching 8 billion and a lot of parents with severe mental illness and drug/alcohol abuse are having 4-6 children and leaving them on the streets (a LOT of that goes on around here) my thoughts have also been turning lately to the whole eugenics movement that was started during the first half of the last century and popularised by Adolph Hitler.

Why should people be allowed to have children on welfare, just to get money from the government so they can buy more booze and drugs and not spend a cent on their kids? It is a huge problem over here...also, in India where you come from and where I spent a lot of time during my youth, I hear that female infanticide is rife because poor parents cannot afford the dowry....Why not just sterilise all children born to poor families? Why not sterilise the mentally handicapped? castrate those with a history of violence against women? make the "right to breed" financial based? or intelligence tested somehow? I can see, in the not too distant future, something like this happening...along with putting to sleep all persons over 60 and physically/mentally disabled people because they are a burden on society...The future of mankind, as a species would eventually need to depend on this...like Soylent Green.

This is what I spend a lot of my time thinking about and arguing the ethics of it with myself...It is not that I agree nor disagree with any of this, but in another century or two, with people popping out babies like rabbits, it wouldn't matter if anybody does anymore...would it?

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

If we want to get serious, "being a doormat" is a personal judgment call. It says "I don't have to stand here and take this" and they are also right, they don't...but that discrimination (viveka) then needs to come into play when it comes to allowing their ego to be trodden on (or not) vs not being personally interested in whatever another has to say or do without feeling victimised by it...but at the same time, thanking them for their opinions or contribution.

you are playing piecemeal with the emotions... I can feel this which means I get to do this and this and this or I can feel that which means I get to do that and that and that or I can feel this other thing which means I get to do... hm which shall I choose to feel today? And by the way i will only choose to feel things that seem pleasant, from whatever my current point of view is. So don't bother me with anything else because everyone knows if it isn't pleasant it is worthless.

That kind of attitude is why people are said to live in the dark... because to the extent you avoid learning about a wide swatch of reality just in the name having things be pleasant (to whatever definition you've become accustomed to), you are very much keeping yourself in the dark.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Ziusudra

But the question again is, considering the degree of the crimes, do you really think that "Enlightenment" will prevent you from hurting/killing those who committed such crimes towards you and your love ones. - Let's say that you are given a chance to carry out your revenge. You are given a weapon. Those criminals are naked w/o weapons and tied up helplessly in a locked room.

I'll butt in here lol - I've thought sometimes it might be nice to smite those mine enemies, and I've had opportunity to think way out of the box on that too... personally though I think it would be a bigger lesson for me to NOT smite them and then have to live with all the people making rude noises because I didn't do the expected thing in response to meanness presented. I think there may be a beautiful gem hidden therein... and I'm into collecting them these days