My Recent Ascension Upgrade

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

It's not my self-esteem issues, as I have no self-esteem and I don't plan to keep on 'shunning people'...it's just easier for me to let them do what they do without my involvement, but that doesn't mean I won't hang around and 'be there'.

Case in point...human beings talk so fast to each other when conversing and if I want to join in, I find there's not enough space in between their words...they can even inhale and talk at the same time! and I cannot 'get a word in' and I try to talk at the same time others are talking, but they just talk over the top of me anyway...hence why I like internet forums so much. I have even tried saying "excuse me" very loud...in the end, I just walk away and let them do whatever they do.

Why do I stand at the back of the class? because 3-4 women are all trying to do just one task, telling each other how they would do it if 'they were the other' and in the end, I am just like "go for it...stage is all yours" and I just don't want to get into the whole 'melee' and the 'thick of it' because it's not my personality to do so and that has nothing to do with a low self-esteem. Some are just 'people people' and some are not, but that also doesn't mean we should exclude ourselves from humanity because of it either.

However, we've had this discussion before and if it makes any difference, all I can say is "I shall consider it and take it on notice".

You keep giving examples where you are joining into something other people are doing. If you are the teacher things are different. People are listening to you, waiting for you to speak. What you say is revered, listened to deeply. When you are teaching or leading you are not fighting for control, control is yours without question. If people get crazy then you bring them back to center. Maybe you dont have much skill in doing so, I didn't have much of a skill at it to begin with either but after about 3 months I was practically an expert at it. Not being good at it now is not a reason to not learn something. Nobody starts out good at something difficult, everybody is a beginner at some point.

Try not to compare the results about joining a discussion about football or cooking with sharing what you know about spiritually enlightening your life. Clearly they are different, so why would you think comparing them is a good idea?

If you are in a spiritual place and sharing spiritual teachings with other spiritual people, do you honestly think they would be interrupting each other, trying to play ego games and be recognized as the most spiritual? well, maybe a few young students will, and perhaps the older students will let these kids play games but the games won't be tolerated for long.

In other words, it might be too difficult to "join in" to other peoples discussions because you were not meant to join in. you were meant to LEAD discussions, to teach and create environments where certain types of discussions can be had. discussions that are more evolved than cooking and football.

I like to think about it like this "what you are meant to do is what you already spend all your time doing". what do you spend your time doing, mostly reading spiritual texts and practicing spirituality. so it follows that your life path might very well involve teaching others what you have come to discover. Also, nobody just starts out teaching. they start out sharing, then they share with a few people, maybe take some lessons on teaching or sharing, then they slowly develop the skill until they are sharing with multiple people at scheduled times under certain conditions. In other words its a progression, its not just something you choose to do one day and go out doing the next.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by shivatar

You keep giving examples where you are joining into something other people are doing. If you are the teacher things are different. People are listening to you, waiting for you to speak. What you say is revered, listened to deeply. When you are teaching or leading you are not fighting for control, control is yours without question. If people get crazy then you bring them back to center. Maybe you dont have much skill in doing so, I didn't have much of a skill at it to begin with either but after about 3 months I was practically an expert at it. Not being good at it now is not a reason to not learn something. Nobody starts out good at something difficult, everybody is a beginner at some point.

Try not to compare the results about joining a discussion about football or cooking with sharing what you know about spiritually enlightening your life. Clearly they are different, so why would you think comparing them is a good idea?

If you are in a spiritual place and sharing spiritual teachings with other spiritual people, do you honestly think they would be interrupting each other, trying to play ego games and be recognized as the most spiritual? well, maybe a few young students will, and perhaps the older students will let these kids play games but the games won't be tolerated for long.

In other words, it might be too difficult to "join in" to other peoples discussions because you were not meant to join in. you were meant to LEAD discussions, to teach and create environments where certain types of discussions can be had. discussions that are more evolved than cooking and football.

Yes, maybe I just have to learn how to teach when I'm just totally uncomfortable with the whole idea and need to get over the discomfort before I can even begin to learn how...so where does one go then to learn how to teach if this does not come naturally?

Also, the reason I'm doing all this superficial stuff (like cooking class) is so I can try and meet other humans on their level...which begs the question, once I learn how to teach, where do I find people interested in being taught?

[Shivani Devi]

I like to think about it like this "what you are meant to do is what you already spend all your time doing". what do you spend your time doing, mostly reading spiritual texts and practicing spirituality. so it follows that your life path might very well involve teaching others what you have come to discover. Also, nobody just starts out teaching. they start out sharing, then they share with a few people, maybe take some lessons on teaching or sharing, then they slowly develop the skill until they are sharing with multiple people at scheduled times under certain conditions. In other words its a progression, its not just something you choose to do one day and go out doing the next.

Ah, I see you have added this as an edit.

So, in other words, just keep doing what I've been doing in regards to:

1. Exposing myself to more social situations but not necessarily involving myself in them.
2. Wait for God to place somebody in my path that requires teaching/healing/sharing when it happens and open up.
3. If it happens, that person will benefit from it and tell others and maybe more will come.
4. Repeat step 1
5. After a few years, a messiah is thus born..

I think I'm already doing it, but yeah...I need to go to a more 'spiritual setting' than a vegetarian cooking class or a yoga/meditation class or a Tai Chi class...any ideas?

[Shivani Devi]

I'm just looking at a lot of stuff online about 'being a spiritual teacher' to get a wider perspective on this whole issue:

http://www.spiritualawakeningprocess...l-teacher.html
https://www.elephantjournal.com/2013...-andrea-leber/

http://www.enlightened-spirituality....l_Teacher.html

I had to laugh at this one.....sounds like me:

Then there are: 2) The wild men/women or holy fools (avadhutas, majdhubs, masts, saloi, yurodivye, idiota, yu jen, mahasiddhas, et al.), within what is sometimes called the “crazy wisdom tradition.” These rather mysterious folks have spontaneously or deliberately gone beyond all societal conventions, sometimes simply because God-realization and liberation came for them in such an unusually powerful way that it blew out the circuits of normal psychological and social functioning. These wild ones, who usually display no regard for their own comforts and even many basic bodily needs (food, liquids, sleep, shelter, basic hygiene), are not usually known for any conspicuous "loving-kindness" on the conventional interpersonal level. They have been known to grunt at, scream at, punch, push, **** on, completely ignore and in various ways “abuse” those whom they encounter—yet with an unexpectedly quite positive, beautifully transformational affect on the recipients of such “holy abuse.” In other words, just as with the free beings of category #1, so also there can be a palpable, edifying sense of divine blessing (saktipat, kripa, baraka, wang, descent of the Holy Spirit, etc.) that is experienced by the recipient during or after the bizarre encounter with a “wild fool” of category #2. This blessing force brings with it an amazing sense of freedom, peace, equanimity, bliss, love, and nondual identity with the One and all beings.

I think I'm starting to 'get it' and just placing more trust in Shiva to bloody 'get on with acting through me' is the start.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

, as Jesus said "be IN the world, but not OF the world and not "turn on, tune in, drop out" ( fully realising of course, that without hermits, hermeticism wouldn't exist).

So, I went back to studying the Shaiva Agamas and the Spanda Karikas tonight and fully realised..."I'm ready now".

Not to toot my own horn too much but .. what did I say about Hermits the other day hahaha.

Originally Posted by Raziel

Well hermits have always had a place - on the outskirts - there must be a reason for that also.

Observation, recording perhaps?

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...ghlight=hermit

To be fair - your not going to remember with all of that going on anyway BUT if the statement were true it would naturally come to you again.

I'm so happy for you & especially the last statement & proud when I read about cooking class.

"be IN the world, but not OF the world" - what's almost amusing is that of EVERYTHING you comprehend spiritually this seems to have clicked only now.

Its all old Raz has ever tried to convey in our "disagreements" - in truth we don't disagree, we access the same universal truth from different levels.

Seems you forgot what life is like on the 8th floor having gotten to the penthouse

.

[django]

There's one holy man who's a particular favourite of mine, saint Seraphim of Sarov. He was a powerful healer, but only opened himself up to the world when he was told directly (by God) to 'open his doors' to the people in need. And then he did.

Making these sort of decisions for ourselves is unfortunately an ego decision. I was once told if I want to go any further as a healer I have to agree not to ever charge any money from anyone, and I haven't been told to open my doors yet either. I fully believe getting involved in any sort of healing or teaching will happen if it is meant to. In the meantime, I hope you enjoy your cooking classes for what they are.

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Ah, I see you have added this as an edit.

So, in other words, just keep doing what I've been doing in regards to:

1. Exposing myself to more social situations but not necessarily involving myself in them.
2. Wait for God to place somebody in my path that requires teaching/healing/sharing when it happens and open up.
3. If it happens, that person will benefit from it and tell others and maybe more will come.
4. Repeat step 1
5. After a few years, a messiah is thus born..

I think I'm already doing it, but yeah...I need to go to a more 'spiritual setting' than a vegetarian cooking class or a yoga/meditation class or a Tai Chi class...any ideas?

the idea is what you spend the big chunks of your life doing.

so if you have spent a big chunk of time this last week doing it, that doesn't compare to spending 1 hour a week for 50 years. do you get what I mean?

also, it's up to you where you want to direct your life. There was a time in my life that I didn't spend any time at all doing anything building or architecture related, but one day I stumbled across some pictures and fell in love, from that day on I began to spend a little bit of my time each day or each week learning new architecture things. Over time I developed a passion for it. In the beginning when I stumbled across those pictures and decided I liked architecture enough to invest time in it, if I had just said "well, i never spent any time doing this in the past, clearly it cant be part of my lives purpose." then i would have missed out. but because I was aware of a special connection when it happened I was able to foster it and develop it into a passion.

idk those are all fairly spiritual things. it can be trendy to be spiritual though so when you choose a class try to choose very advanced classes because beginner classes can be full of people who are doing yoga and tai chi because everyone is doing it, rather than doing it for spiritual benefits. same with vegetarian cooking

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I'm just looking at a lot of stuff online about 'being a spiritual teacher' to get a wider perspective on this whole issue:

http://www.spiritualawakeningprocess...l-teacher.html
https://www.elephantjournal.com/2013...-andrea-leber/

http://www.enlightened-spirituality....l_Teacher.html

I had to laugh at this one.....sounds like me:



I think I'm starting to 'get it' and just placing more trust in Shiva to bloody 'get on with acting through me' is the start.

I think you'd like for that to be true more than you deeply believe it is true.

Those wild people are like, people who poop in their hand then eat it. They are literally out of their mind. If you talk to them and ask for the weather they will tell you orange then hit you in the face. They speak another language, they are not in the realm of people if you get what I mean.

#3 sounds more like you
There is 3) a third type of genuine spiritual figure: the “good friend” (kalyana mitra in Buddhism) or spiritual teacher-mentor-counselor who may not be 100% established in spiritual freedom, fully awake and always lucid within the dream, yet such a one is nevertheless a very helpful, enlightening figure who empowers those s/he encounters. This person does not try to “role-play Guru” by presuming to be fully awake or take full responsibility for the welfare and direction of disciples. This friend-teacher just serves as much as possible, sharing from the heart the clear wisdom, caring compassion and gratitude for Divine grace that has served him/her thus far on the pathless journey HOME to full, free Awareness. Such a person may actually be quite a gifted teacher, healer or catalyst for fellow sentient beings, truly empowering them with certain wonderful breakthroughs, strengths and gifts. Some persons may even become fully awake through their association with this type of teacher-healer who is not yet 100% free and awake.

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Yes, maybe I just have to learn how to teach when I'm just totally uncomfortable with the whole idea and need to get over the discomfort before I can even begin to learn how...so where does one go then to learn how to teach if this does not come naturally?

Also, the reason I'm doing all this superficial stuff (like cooking class) is so I can try and meet other humans on their level...which begs the question, once I learn how to teach, where do I find people interested in being taught?

Practice is the best teacher.

What good is it to meet other people on their level if you don't plan to stay there? Why not just go to your own level and find other people who are also on your level?

practice first, you can worry about finding people interested in what you are selling once you know what you are selling. gotta catch the fish before you worry about cooking it.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by django

There's one holy man who's a particular favourite of mine, saint Seraphim of Sarov. He was a powerful healer, but only opened himself up to the world when he was told directly (by God) to 'open his doors' to the people in need. And then he did.

Making these sort of decisions for ourselves is unfortunately an ego decision. I was once told if I want to go any further as a healer I have to agree not to ever charge any money from anyone, and I haven't been told to open my doors yet either. I fully believe getting involved in any sort of healing or teaching will happen if it is meant to. In the meantime, I hope you enjoy your cooking classes for what they are.

Thank you...and exactly!

I went home from the library the other day in deep thought about all of this...I opened my heart up to my Higher Self and this is what happened:

Hi there, Shivatar, my dear...I think I have finally figured out what the problem is!

It is not so much an issue of self-confidence, as a total lack of any human experience whatsoever.

The skills I am lacking are not 'teaching skills', they are 'social skills' and to be a good teacher, requires both. It requires the assesment of another's individual needs and then a tailored program to meet those needs. It's not about fronting up and telling people what you know with the hope they'd actually be interested in hearing stuff that doesn't apply to them on some level.

Teaching spirituality isn't like teaching quantum physics where you go to university, get a degree...spend years in isolation perfecting your theories...get your Masters or Doctorate...then go on the 'touring circuit'. To teach spirituality requires an intimate knowledge of human emotions, human behaviour and basically how people are inside, so whatever you have to teach will be done in the most appropriate and loving manner, so as to resonate deeply. I lack that basic prerequisite for teaching and it's not a lack of confidence. I have spent most of my life in a cave and never learned how people 'tick', basically.

Whatever I have experienced and whatever happened to me...no matter how beautiful, desirable, great etc it was, it's still only a subjective experience. It's like when two people cannot speak the same language and try to talk to each other...either must learn the other's language or both must learn a totally different language first even before they can thus begin to describe what they are each talking about and I'm in the process of doing (or trying to do) just that by totally going against my grain to immerse myself in 'popular human culture' as much as it pains me to do so....yep and all the while fully realising what a stupid illusion it all is and all the never-ending frustration of hypocrisy ensues.

This is why I am reluctant to become a 'spiritual teacher' because I also feel that it's you, yourself who thinks that this is what I should be doing, totally contrary to whether I want to do it or not and for me, it's not about 'power' and it's not about 'control' and 'being heard/noticed' as all I have ever wanted, was just to be included as an equal and to have my say about 'cooking' or 'football' if I actually had any view on it....but yes, I also realise I wasn't meant to do this either because even when, on the rare occasion, there's a break for a few seconds and I speak my piece, it signals an automatic change of subject.

I also have a very difficult time 'owning' anything I do and seeing things as they relate to me personally or as a person. Even though I refer to myself through use of pronouns to make conversation easier, I don't have any sense of a 'personal self' in that I actually think of/refer to myself as 'being something' or 'doing something' and I'm trying to learn how to establish a sense of personal identity so that I can relate on some level with another being who has one and is already fully established in it and if that means I need to give up being 'spiritual' just so that I can be 'human'...that's how it must be and I fully acknowledge this, for I cannot exist as both.

I'm also aware, in regards that I'm drawn more towards being a healer...or a 'conduit for the energy' more than I'm a teacher...or a 'conduit for the knowledge' because for all I know...or all I can teach...it is severely limited and lacking when it comes to the transcendent love-knowledge which is totally 'heart based' and yet, I never learned how to extend this towards another human being and it wasn't something which automatically came with the territory as far as God-Realisation was concerned...well, not for me anyway...and not for those aforementioned "Mad Monks" either. lol

Having said that, yes you are correct, Shivatar in that I hold myself back a LOT and that has nothing to do with me having a low self-esteem or refusing to be a teacher when it is my 'calling'...but it all has to do with my total inability to judge interpersonal cues and situations.

I mean, I would love to rock up to a group all about yoga or meditation and go "hi, I'm Dianne and I'm into...blah blah". I've tried this before and it's always like "that's nice dear....so tell me, Carol (another person), what was the name of that Reiki practitioner you go and see again?" and it isn't like wearing my ochre robes and rudraksha beads in public raises any eyebrows either. Not once have I ever been stopped on the street by a stranger who makes any enquiries about it either and I'm like "meh...okily dokily then". I've even felt like wearing a badge; "attain Nirvana now, ask me how" but my Higher Self just laughs at that.

I also highly insult and offend without being aware I'm even doing it and I have had nobody to teach me proper social etiquette. All I know is that there's no cure/rehabilitation for this and the only alternative is total silence...and there's only ONE who can teach in total silence!

So, this is why I tend to get a bit 'defensive' whenever you raise the issue of me being a teacher and you are right...actions speak louder than words, but most are trained just to hear the words, but not see the actions and yep, it all boils down to just being yourself and being genuine and if people are meant to come and learn, they will...if not, they won't but there's no 'teaching' going on...there's just two or more existing within the same space and like Jesus said, it's also what tends to happen when two or more are gathered in His name and it seems that for all those who are not ready to 'learn', I am also not ready to 'teach'.

The only way out of it is to do some charitable work and assist those less fortunate or those who you are in a position to help on the material level and then introduce spirituality/religion as a later concept...how do you think Churches and the Christian faith grew to be what it is today? People will more likely listen when they have no alternative but to do so due to some hardship or another (as evidenced by the many attempts to indoctinate me into Christianity whenever I attend the Baptist Church's soup kitchen when I'm broke and hard up).

Basically, what I need to do is to totally work on my Vishuddhi Chakra (Throat Chakra) and also muster up all of the Shakti so that it exudes and radiates personal spiritual charm and charisma, where I could sit like Buddha in the corner of the room, say nothing and have people coming up to me. I'll do my Reiki Certificate and also get more proficient at Yoga, so I can place both feet behind my neck again and go "I bet you can't do that...muahahaha". I also noticed there's only one shaman within a 100km radius...well, only one advertising their services anyway.

I'll probably get more instructions with my next upgrade, or maybe the planet will blow up before then and save me the time and the universe will have no choice but to prevent my next human rebirth...however, I sarcastically jest.