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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Lifestyle > Vegetarian & Vegan

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Old 25-05-2019, 11:27 AM
Sapphirez Sapphirez is offline
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Originally Posted by edithaint
Ugh, there's more to it than homeostasis of OUR bodies. We are to Earth as microorganisms are to us, and just as you wouldn't want too much candida in your hoo-ha, our planet doesn't want too many of us. Earth says we shouldn't live into our hundreds, that's why she usually kills us through illness and "accidents" at some point past menopause. Monkeys living to 300 defies nature much more than eating meat does. But perhaps you're right about eating our food while still alive though, it would explain why many carnivores don't wait for their meat to die first. Although I would totally eat a 4 YEAR old cucumber. Pickled in vinegar and garlic, of course.

well of course there's a spiritual aspect to our existence here too. obviously in more ways than one but particularly here I mean as in agreement to us not necessarily needing to dwell here for hundreds of years. but perhaps in the grand scheme of things the average lifespan is a bit shorter than ideal, and of course the senseless suffering needn't go on as it does.
The thing about our population here is first and foremost, that I believe we are here to do good and make things better with our ingenuity and creativity, If people were coming together or individually contributing to the betterment of the world and honoring nature as we are supposed to, then there would be much less issue of the burden of population. The other thing is, apparently the entire world population could currently fit into a space less than the size of Texas, so overpopulation is a non-issue. The only issue is how mankind disrespects and destroys the Earth, and really that usually starts with the self and each other which also seems to stem from one's treatment of their own self and how they project their states outwardly. There are infinite magnificent things mankind can do, and infinite horrific things too.. It isn't a wonder that people are insane and cause harm to each other considering how much harm the average person does to themselves, generally because that is how they were raised and taught by the current society which is the issue.

Thanks for giving the point about eating food that is alive.. as for pickles well yes they are delicious (though I only get select ones that have reasonable ingredient lists because we do have to be aware of how much b s is added to food, and how unnecessary and detrimental most of it is) and foods can be preserved in certain ways that prolong their life and don't always totally compromise their integrity as a quality food. though you wouldn't want to eat a diet solely of such foods.. nevermind the fact that most processed foods today are preserved with citric acid which is actually almost always created from a black mold aspergillus niger which likely was crafted from a genetically modified host food but I digress..

I want to bring something up that is sort of relevant but controversial about carnivorous animals.. There's a man Flanagan who did some research with the pyramid shape, and was apparently able to reproduce some results that alleged inside the Great pyramid certain things occur. such as food being preserved, plants growing better, and blades not dulling and so on.. Aside from that, I'll just quote this section of the findings

"No extensive tests have been conducted on animals at this time. There are however, three cases of interest.

A friend of mine placed his pet cat in a pyramid once a day for 1/2 hour. The cat liked the pyramid and began to sleep in it. When the test was begun, the cat had been a voracious meat eater.

After 6 weeks, the cat stopped eating meat and starved rather than eat meat. Subsequent tests indicated that the cat had changed his diet and would only eat fruit and vegetables, cheese and nuts. The animal became a vegetarian! He ate raw vegetables and fruits of all descriptions; canteloupe, avocado, oranges, and watermelon.

The same thing happened to another cat as well as my own poodle."

There are people who have vegan cats even though we accept cats as obligate carnivores.. it's possible to raise healthy happy cats that don't need or want to eat dead or live animal meat. It isn't common but it's something to think about. I know that the Earth is a place of life and destruction and regeneration and all that so I know everything can't live forever or else nothing new would grow, but that doesn't mean our understanding of the current or past realities truly reflect the potentialities and possible ideals.

The thing about candida since you bring it up, and microbes in general, is that they serve a purpose. Unfortunately or not lol.. If we don't create an environment they can thrive in, they have no reason to populate us. Candida is systemic and doesn't just target a hoo-ha.. and candida is there to feast on waste and help the body be rid of it. If you have too much waste, excess sugar most specifically, the candida will thrive and have lots of candida babies who also have plenty to eat.. Candida is one of the known beneficial bacteria that gets out of control, but the truth is that all the evil seeming microscopic monsters (or larger worms which are much more common than thought or taught) are there for a reason. Almost all of them prefer an acidic environment, and feed off of waste that the body is unable to transmute into energy or eliminate via the ordinary routes.

If we have properly working lymphatic (waste management) systems and the body is functioning as it was designed to, there isn't an abundance of excess waste, high acidity only exists where it is supposed to, and the bacteria, viruses, parasites and such pathogens have no invitation and cannot be sustained in a healthy homeostatic environment. Most would run away from you rather than try to enter your fortress, but those that do near or pass the threshold are quickly dealt with accordingly.. But when the body is given too many things it doesn't want or need too many times, it just simply can't keep up and options are limited. That's when the body starts creating excess fat, cysts, tumors and other holding cells to isolate intruding toxins so that it can protect its vital organs and stay alive one way or another. These happen to also be abodes (and commodes lol) for many of the creepy crawlies and swimmers mentioned above. So knowing this line of logic and information, we have to think about what exactly a specific food or variation of a food (or other substance) does to the body and being. Is it going to be fodder for things you wish to evict? Or will it truly nourish the body and increase and strengthen the forces that work in your favor?

It isn't Earth that kills us off, its our own foolishness and failure to respect and honor it and our inextricable connection to it. There are ways we are meant to live and conduct ourselves, body, mind, soul, and beyond.. and there are ways we are not. Some of it's guesswork, but if we dig deep enough a lot of the groundwork has already been figured out for us, if we stop trusting the wrong sources and seek out the tried and true which we've been bred to disregard. It isn't the fault of most people that they hardly resemble humans anymore.. but it is our obligation to open our minds and eyes to see and learn the truth.. and then our mouths and hands to help each other. The real solution lies in making the truth a trend that eclipses the current rubbish of mainstream culture and brainwashing. Then we can have a world without all the resentment and negativity and unnecessary destruction and mutation.. because that's not who and what we are or what this world's supposed to be
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Old 25-05-2019, 02:57 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Please, can we recognize every species for what they are with their own needs..? There might be a temporary survival for a carnivore, feeding it on plants, but why would anyone do that? It doesn't matter what other animals do. Humans can choose, but the same cannot be said for carnivore animals. Experimenting or forcing them on a plant diet feels all wrong to me. Any vegan or vegetarian owning a cat or dog has to take responsibility there. I would never force a veg diet on a dog or cat..!!

The other thing is, apparently the entire world population could currently fit into a space less than the size of Texas, so overpopulation is a non-issue.

All these people will also need living space, resources, and land used for food production, so ''we all fit in Texas'' means little in the context of population issues..
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Old 25-05-2019, 08:48 PM
edithaint edithaint is offline
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Originally Posted by Altair
Please, can we recognize every species for what they are with their own needs..? There might be a temporary survival for a carnivore, feeding it on plants, but why would anyone do that? It doesn't matter what other animals do. Humans can choose, but the same cannot be said for carnivore animals. Experimenting or forcing them on a plant diet feels all wrong to me. Any vegan or vegetarian owning a cat or dog has to take responsibility there. I would never force a veg diet on a dog or cat..!!

All these people will also need living space, resources, and land used for food production, so ''we all fit in Texas'' means little in the context of population issues..

Thank you for addressing this for me. I've been cleaning my mother-in-law's bedroom all day, and I really don't have the patience for feline veganism or the "we all fit in Texas" spiel. There is much more to a healthy population than ingredient lists or the redistribution of wealth.
“You have evolved from worm to man, but much within you is still worm. Once you were apes, yet even now man is more of an ape than any of the apes.” -- Friedrich Nietzsche

"The universe is random. Not inevitable. It's simple chaos." -- Walter White

"Of course it is happening inside your head, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?" -- Albus Dumbledore
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Old 25-05-2019, 11:58 PM
Gem Gem is offline
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I wanted to make this stark contribution because people can get develop radical relationships with food, and with that obsessive association, create much harm with the best of intentions. I keep an ear to the ground following popular social media figures in the nutrition space, including the vegan space, which is rife with a disfunctional narrative about food.

Recently in Sydney a toddler was hospitalised after being subjected to the vegan beliefs of their parents. The Sydney press covered the story, and anyone can google "Sydney, baby, vegan, hospitalised" and read the dirt. I thought it only fair, though, to post the comments of a die hard vegan rather than post the general population view because vegans might think they are tainted with the same brush as the neglectful parents. I will link that video at the end.

As I said several times in the thread, I consider veganism to be a valid ethical standpoint and one way of having a healthy diet, but the general social narrative vegans are propagating about food is unsound, reflects an unhealthy relationship with food and presents an unacceptable risk of harm to those misled into its tenets.

On this thread we can hear the stories which sound elating and appealing, and I would like those stories to be true, but alas. However, I can speak about the facts of adequate calories and nutrient distribution til the cows are set free, but the truth of nutrition has no tantalising appeal in comparison to the spiritual sounding and more compassionate timbre of the vegan vernacular. Just realise these fantastic claims are just pulled outa thuin air and there is no evidence, no science, and let me be perfectly frank, no truth - and that delusional narrative stems from disfunctional beliefs that support toxic relationships with food.

The story I'm about to post in the video is not a remote case, albeit among the more extreme cases - there are so many cases of children subjected to their parents radical eating beliefs that become malnourished in the vegan community, with their little stick arm and legs and impeded childhood development. Of course the standard diet in the West is also driven by food delusions creating tremendous harm through childhood obesity and the related morbidity.

We have to be harder on the issue because harming children who are reliant on us is a terrible abuse, and the whole social narrative on food in society is creating an unimaginable scale of harm.

I suggest that vegans and omnivores alike who take an interest in the nutrition narrative subscribe to this channel. Listen to how she comments, how she talks about nutrients, and how she ensures her own children thrive sans animal products - because this what the truth sounds like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA9SZbtcFOs&t=420s
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Old 26-05-2019, 05:08 AM
JosephineBloggs JosephineBloggs is offline
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All these people will also need living space, resources, and land used for food production, so ''we all fit in Texas'' means little in the context of population issues..

It's because some people live in mud huts and others live in mansions. Some people are starving and others overindulge and waste food. Some families have four cars, other whole communities have no vehicle. etc etc
I salute the Divinity in you.
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Old 26-05-2019, 08:54 AM
hallow hallow is offline
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Originally Posted by Sapphirez
I enjoyed and appreciated your posts Debrah, thanks for contributing to this thread

lol says who? The human body is designed to maintain "homeostasis" indefinitely.. it doesn't just give up, it gets run down and overburdened and destroyed and that is when death occurs.. or even as with accidents death occurs when the body is moved in ways it's not meant to be, and what we consume internally and externally also "moves" the body, in ways it may want, which sustains life, or ways it doesn't, which is what contributes to disease, disorder, and death..

There are a lot of polluting outside sources, which is why it's even more important to control what we can internally and in our immediate external environments, and with the pollutive nature (or anti-nature) of the world today people can't be expected to live as long as they ought to, but there is logically and literally no reason why humans shouldn't live past 100 or even 200 years old in the ideal climate. Nothing says the body stops striving for homeostasis at 100 or 60 or 300 years. Nothing. Degeneration occurs because of outside forces and sources. But there are infinite ways for us to replenish our bodies, brains and beings.. Even "science" that once said you're screwed cuz your cells stop regenerating after a certain number, point, or age, has been reexamined as inaccurate. There are just ways to make the body thrive and ways to thwart its operations.

Creativity is the nature of the game. We are creative beings with a lot of potential and possibilities and modes of expression. for better or worse.... When people deviate too far from their nature, be it physical, mental, emotional or spiritual, etc., disorder and disease set in.. otherwise the body is constantly trying to reverse any damage and heals itself all the time when not interrupted or corrupted by other things. Cells regenerate and a lot of natural things and ways of life or activity can contribute to this greatly. It takes understanding of nature and human nature, and how to not fuff with nature cuz that is where problems arise and we need to remember we are nature. If we cook ourselves in the microwave or stab or shoot ourselves, and leave our bodies rotting for days or weeks, bad things happen.. similar things happen if we consume things that were treated or mutilated that way. I mean of course if we chew ourselves like we must chew raw food, or blend ourselves up in a blender obviously the results will be bad, but when we chew living food or blend it up and consume it as soon as possible, it's still alive.. Plants can be reasonably modified and still be alive for a while, but if you do that to animals they're dead so they're not of ideal use to the body.. and you wouldn't eat a cut up cucumber that's been sitting on the counter for four days, because it's too far deviated from its nature and not alive and well anymore.. but when it was first cut up it was still alive, because plant foods are magical that way. But if you cook it, it gets killed and has a more detrimental effect on the human body just as you'd expect and deduce using logic. I know that raw food isn't exactly being discussed here, but in fact it is an important key to the ideal vegan or any diet. And some plants are not meant to be the best food for humans or animals. It all depends but with modern science and increased spiritual understanding we can figure this all out relatively well

i understand you like eating raw foods because you feel that's the best for your body. Maybe your right. I honestly don't know. But there is just as sickness tied to raw foods as cooked. All most people pay attention to is the meat side of it. I read often of break outs of all kinds of illnesses traced back to raw foods of any kind. The meat packing industry is held to stricter standards then vegetable's. Lately here there's a huge recall of fresh veggie trays sold by a convenience store. People are getting sick from fresh pre packed and washed vegetables. It happens, nothing is perfect. No matter what you eat there's types of illnesses your body on it's own just can't kill the illness. Even if you eat and exercise perfectly your body will shut down eventually. Like wheat in the fall. There's a natural life cycle for everything nothing last forever. Not even mountains or oceans. And at the end what really matters? I don't think anyone will find it in a body cell text book.
If you believe in yourself. The rest will fallow
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Old 26-05-2019, 01:51 PM
Taking a Break Taking a Break is offline
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The advise of science nowadays is to not cook your vegetables too long and to not use high heat because of nutritious loss?.........I wander about the effects...
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