Should we even be spiritual while incarnated in the physis? And why do we incarnate?

Originally Posted by janielee

Without going back, I’m pretty sure that’s not true.

I don';t need to lie.

Originally Posted by janielee

But what is more revealing, IMO, is the way you took the objection to your assertion that there if real Masters didn’t have ego, they would be unable to function/live as a personal offence, and it couldn’t be true that these people don’t live from ego. The grudge, the resentment, the offence. [

I see it as that the ego become a tool, an interface of the Greater Self, and the tail no longer wags the dog.
Only those who have the Awakened Eye see this and live it, the rest of us not so much.

That you would choose only one definition has more to do with your need to feel spiritually awakened; when there is no problem, All is well.[/

And yes, there are many good people of this world who may not have learnt “spirituality”.

Doesn’t take away from any of it, but nor is that a Spiritual Master - as a SM has a very specific and transcendental insight and vantage including for many aspects of omniscience.

You see this not from the words they speak only, but by their approach to life, others, their reactions, their clarity and the ease with which such ones speak from Truth. Which doesn’t deviate from the teachings of the spiritual teachers of acclaim, so that’s nice. How consistent Masters and students of Truth really are at core...

Sure - I don’t see things the way you do hopefully you will be able to forgive the perceived offence to your good self



A nice radio bite, but (and here I go name dropping again, oh the shame!!) Rumi, Buddha, Jesus, Hafiz, Ramana Maharsri, Rinzai, Bodhidharma, Milarepa, Meister Eckhart - these are the compasses not because they do nice easy sound bites, but because they live and penetrated Truth (which has specificity) and manifest from the same core truths.

And it’s not stuff you just make up (although I appreciate it’s easier to turn spirituality into a self driven ego hobby and say whatever we like about it - how’s that for setting a test we mark for ourselves?) Every student’s dream, except what have you learnt except to stay in a place of offence?

JL

There's still no such thing as Spiritual by association.

Originally Posted by janielee

This seems relevant here

I don't know what you were trying to achieve with this but you didn't.

“The temple of the most high begins with the body which houses our life, the essence of our existence. Africans are in bondage today because they approach spirituality through religion provided by foreign invaders and conquerors. We must stop confusing religion and spirituality. Religion is a set of rules, regulations and rituals created by humans, which was suppose to help people grow spiritually. Due to human imperfection religion has become corrupt, political, divisive and a tool for power struggle. Spirituality is not theology or ideology. It is simply a way of life, pure and original as was given by the Most High of Creation. Spirituality is a network linking us to the Most High, the universe, and each other…”
― Haile Selassie I

As for the role the ego plays in all this, an ego often ignored and personified as the bad guy is not an ego understood.

Originally Posted by davidsun

Great 'retrieve' of J's post, JL!

I think I found it whilst posting here. Seemed relAvant!

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I don';t need to lie.

There's still no such thing as Spiritual by association.

Indeed there isn’t, Greenslade, and spiritual theories (no matter from whom) mean nothing when it comes to Truth lived.

This is the promise of the Ancients, and my encouragement to everyone to not settle for anything less than a joyful peace, a Light in the Heart. And the need to practice, have a sadhana, submit to Truth. The heart knows and peace reigns.

With gratitude to the Greats.

JL

Originally Posted by janielee

Indeed there isn’t, Greenslade, and spiritual theories (no matter from whom) mean nothing when it comes to Truth lived.

This is the promise of the Ancients, and my encouragement to everyone to not settle for anything less than a joyful peace, a Light in the Heart. And the need to practice, have a sadhana, submit to Truth. The heart knows and peace reigns.

With gratitude to the Greats.

JL

I've seen what your Truth is based on, you gave me links and I spent the time reading. It's still relative to one's own agenda. There are things that are far beyond the subjectivity and relativity of peace, sahdana. and Truth and have the purity that is undeniable. There are things that just ARE. But that takes an understanding beyond resonance.

We don't tell the Truth, we tell the Truth of ourselves.

Perhaps the greatest respect we can give to the greats is to embody their teachings and not use them as a way of demeaning others in order to gain an illusionary Spiritual acumen. To borrow from the Hobbits, Spirituality is as Spirituality does but that takes a Spirituality beyond the rules, regulations, power-plays and politics.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Perhaps the greatest respect we can give to the greats is to embody their teachings and not use [meaning abuse] them as a way of demeaning others [yes, GS!] in order to gain an illusionary Spiritual acumen. To borrow from the Hobbits, Spirituality is as Spirituality does but that takes a Spirituality beyond the rules, regulations, power-plays [including 'rebelliions' ] and politics.

Relating to this (I think), from my treatise:

Those who already believe that their and others’ soul constellations derive from and so are (potentially) ‘immortal’ aspects of the ever-ongoing Flow of Life Itself will also be able to more meaningfully consider what ‘steps’ towards becoming more expansively loving and joyful in relation to and with others it may be most appropriate for them to (next) take by framing and viewing what’s going on in and around them in the reincarnational and post‑incarnational perspective presented herein. In particular, folks may thereby just matter‑of‑factly engage with Life in ways that lead to their experiencing an ongrowing Flow of Love and Joy in relation to and with others around them simply by paying attention to, learning from and constructively responding to whatever is happening (or not, which they think and feel it would ‘better’ if it was) in their lives at any given point, without their feeling any existential ‘need’ or being in any particular ‘hurry’ to go ‘all the way’ in any regard in the context of their present Life-situation. Their assigning secondary status to [personal] pleasure-and-gain (and associated comfort-and-security) seeking desires and pain-and-loss (and associated stress-and-uncertainty) avoidance-motivating aversions when considering possible, and possibly competing, Love and Joy options (because such desires and aversions will then, of course, be ‘seen’ to just be the momentary pull and push corollates of one’s ‘local’ temperospatial ‘carnality’) will be sufficient to ‘guide’ their progression in this regard. The process spoken of herein as self‑transcendence (which requires that one embrace and choose, insofar as one is at any point able to, to do whatever one thinks will serve to optimize and augment The Flow of Love and Joy above and beyond considerations pertaining to any particular temperospatial ‘body’ or cohort of ‘bodies’) will, in due course, thus optimally☺ proceed to completion.

Woohoo!

[jay.kishan]

I think this can be as simple as. "Maybe we did not have anything better to do"

Can you see this life as a gift to you ? So that you can feel the physical, through your 5 senses and evolve naturally ?

Higher beings in Hindusim, which we call devtas, they know the reality, and yet it is said that the pleasure a HUMAN finds in finding peace, love and joy within is what they crave, because we know nothing.

My question is, Will you play a game you knew cheats of. If yes, how much ? wont you get bored?

This is the way reality is, if it will unveil itself to you, you'll lose interest in the physical.

You are not physical, yet given such a tremendous physical body, just to feel the pleasures and bounties of life. Which in other dimensions, you would've missed.

But then why spirituality ?
Well. its completely your choice. To live a life where you donot know how to control your thoughts and emotions, is completely your choice. But dont you think youll mess out this human experience if you donot know this basic fundamental thing that thoughts and emotions are completely OUR creation, if you dont do things consciously and the fact that this entire human experience comes from within.

Turning inwards and living a joyful life in which conscious decisions are made is what i think spirituality IS. If you think you dont need to be spiritual to enjoy life. Your choice

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by jay.kishan

I think this can be as simple as. "Maybe we did not have anything better to do"

Can you see this life as a gift to you ? So that you can feel the physical, through your 5 senses and evolve naturally ?

Higher beings in Hindusim, which we call devtas, they know the reality, and yet it is said that the pleasure a HUMAN finds in finding peace, love and joy within is what they crave, because we know nothing.

My question is, Will you play a game you knew cheats of. If yes, how much ? wont you get bored?

This is the way reality is, if it will unveil itself to you, you'll lose interest in the physical.

You are not physical, yet given such a tremendous physical body, just to feel the pleasures and bounties of life. Which in other dimensions, you would've missed.

But then why spirituality ?
Well. its completely your choice. To live a life where you donot know how to control your thoughts and emotions, is completely your choice. But dont you think you'll mess out this human experience if you do not know this basic fundamental thing that thoughts and emotions are completely OUR creation, if you dont do things consciously and the fact that this entire human experience comes from within.

Turning inwards and living a joyful life in which conscious decisions are made is what i think spirituality IS. If you think you dont need to be spiritual to enjoy life. Your choice

So you believe and think, Jay. Somewhat overlapping that, here's what I believe and think (from pg. 83-85 of my treatise though there's much more of relevance in there):

Psychospiritual communion in a Spirit of Love and Joy is what is most relevant to actualizing the kind of Life I speak of: Conscious affirmation and appreciation of intimately (via mutual recognition and empathy) shared thoughts and feelings, whereby and wherein one whole-mind-n-heart‑edly embraces and revels in the fact that whoever or whatever one is in the presence of is a wonderfully familial being-doing aspect of The Flow of Life Itself,* any differences between one’s own and others’ world*ly situations and/or conditions notwithstanding!

[Footnote*: It is because they have ‘spousally’ embraced The Flow of Life Itself that Cosmically oriented and committed individuals don’t think of themselves as being ‘alone’ and no longer feel ‘i’solated even when they aren’t with others who are especially ‘in synch’ with them, the way people who haven’t yet done so naturally do. As the apostle Paul testified: “I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from [The Flow of Life Itself].” (Romans 8:39); albeit, instead of the words I placed in brackets, he said “the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord” to express what he meant because of the particular way in which he conceptualized what said words reference.

Think about all that this actually means: Among other things, it means that even if you or others who you are presently mentally and emotionally Love‑and-Joy-relationally engaged with were to physically ‘die’ the very next instant, or even if you or they were to go on to ‘live’ and possibly ‘die’ dreadful (in terms of being physiosocially difficult, painful and/or deprived) ‘lives’ and ‘deaths’, then even if not in some future lifetime on this planet (let’s say, because it becomes uninhabitable), your souls could and would either (a) continue to your relational association by reincarnating together (in different ‘forms’☺ of course) in the context of another planet’s Life‑matrix if you and they so chose – that is, assuming you and they didn’t complete your incarnational ‘school’ curriculum and ‘graduate’ herefrom by way of fully realizing your Cosmic ‘I’dentity here this time around; or (b) continue your ‘association’ in completely psychospiritual realms – that is, assuming you and they did ‘graduate’ and so had no further purpose to fulfill by incarnating again; or (c) assuming you ‘graduate’ and they don’t, (so they continue to reincarnate) or vice versa, because there really aren’t any ‘rigid’ boundaries between physical and non-physical realms of Life (these are actually existentially interleaved), just engage across the apparent gap between these. In the latter case, disincarnate souls inhabiting purely psychospiritual realms (this also pertains to those that are presently just ‘between’ incarnations) may interact and communicate with incarnated folks in undetected ways (i.e. not consciously registered by locally focused brains) in their ‘waking’ lives, and incarnated souls may ‘trip*out’☺ and engage with disincarnate souls they have an affiliational affinity with in their ‘dreams’, albeit such realm-spanning interactions and communications may not be recognized for what they are because these are generally physical-brain translated into the ‘language’ of images and symbols and, in any case, lack of biosensory impression usually results in their quickly fading from brain-based memory upon one’s bodily ‘waking up’.

Those who ‘see’ what’s happening in this light will know that they as well as others don’t really ‘need’ to grasp for or hold onto anyone or anything in order to become and continue to experience being completely happy (that is, fully Love and Joy related) souls, and that there’s no really compelling ‘reason’ for them to ‘lament’ the worldly destruction, loss or inaccessibility of anyone or anything either, not to the point where they are completely unhappy at least. They will live knowing that they ever-continue to be munificently ‘gifted’ by, and, though there may of course be momentary lapses in this regard as a result of their experiencing physical and/or emotional pain, generally be very appreciative of and feel enormous gratitude for being included in, Life’s ever-ongoing Love and Joy Flow Process, and so whole-mind-n-heart-edly engage in generous sharing and unabashed celebration thereof no matter what!

Woohoo!

Originally Posted by davidsun

Relating to this (I think), from my treatise:

Those who already believe that their and others’ soul constellations derive from and so are (potentially) ‘immortal’ aspects of the ever-ongoing Flow of Life Itself will also be able to more meaningfully consider what ‘steps’ towards becoming more expansively loving and joyful in relation to and with others

This stopped being about Spirituality a long time ago, David. And to reference back to the question in the OP, the answer is quite obvious.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

This stopped being about Spirituality a long time ago, David. And to reference back to the question in the OP, the answer is quite obvious.
[/indent]

??????

I was bouncing off of Jay's post. The OP was:

Originally Posted by Siemens

We are souls that deliberately incarnated on this planet to make experiences that are possible only in the physis. Does it even make sense to lead a spiritual life, focus on spiritual themes, and practice spiritual techniques like meditation, when we, as souls, incarnated in the physis with the intention to experience the physis? Shouldn’t we rather be focused on material things?

Aren’t these spiritual activities things that we could do when we are dead and in the beyond? I mean, for what reason did we incarnate in the physis when we then orient ourselves back toward the non-physis were we actually came from?

Since we can be spiritual when we are in the beyond, wouldn’t it be much more plausible to utilize the material life for material experiences? Shouldn’t we here on earth focus on consumerism, worldly pleasure, ego, individualism, and occupational success - or why do we even incarnate?

What's your 'point'?