Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 23-12-2016, 04:22 AM
markings markings is offline
Guide
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 619
 
It is indeed a question of perspective, or world view.
The Two Flower Theory of Chinese Buddhism explains that very well.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 23-12-2016, 06:32 AM
Ground Ground is offline
Suspended
Ascender
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 993
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei
Things can certainly be experienced outside of the conceptual dualisms. A person can like the look of a watch without disliking the look of another watch... Well, that's where it gets interesting. Some people can't... I can, and people who experience life without a fixation locked within the scope of dualisms can.
Maybe what you call "outside of the conceptual dualisms" is just "outside of ordinary perception" without being non-dualism? At least from my perspective this would be the appropriate expression. So non-dualism from my perspective is still a different mode of consciousness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei
Avoiding entering a conversation of post-modernism, is it possible to experience something without not-appreciating something else? Not from my perspective, and not from the perspective of the worshippers of Shiva of ancient Vedic religions. You can simply enjoy things without initially feeling 'hungry' for them.
yeah there are many different modes of consciousness. But really I would not restrict modes of perceptions to the dualism of "dualism vs non-dualism". E.g. there are modes within dualism that do not experience objects as inherently being 'real' or 'true' or 'existent' and as a consequence conditioned attachments to or aversion against objects dissolve althought it is still dualistic perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei
But that escapes the point really. I like that clock though, not sure why. If i'm not sure why, is dualism relevant?
In this example dualism is relevant since you are experiencing the clock to be other than yourself and other than clocks your do not like as much as that clock.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 23-12-2016, 07:07 AM
WuWei WuWei is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 63
  WuWei's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
Maybe what you call "outside of the conceptual dualisms" is just "outside of ordinary perception" without being non-dualism? At least from my perspective this would be the appropriate expression. So non-dualism from my perspective is still a different mode of consciousness.


yeah there are many different modes of consciousness. But really I would not restrict modes of perceptions to the dualism of "dualism vs non-dualism". E.g. there are modes within dualism that do not experience objects as inherently being 'real' or 'true' or 'existent' and as a consequence conditioned attachments to or aversion against objects dissolve althought it is still dualistic perception.


In this example dualism is relevant since you are experiencing the clock to be other than yourself and other than clocks your do not like as much as that clock.

I'm not sure you understand dualism, or I don't. One of those.

or both or neither.


Quadism, isn't Dualism. Dualism can be dissected to, but I'm not dissecting in this topic. I'm looking at perceptions being guided by a dualistic mind set, or perceptions guided by a mind set that doesn't naturally capture things in basics and opposites.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 23-12-2016, 07:49 AM
Ground Ground is offline
Suspended
Ascender
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 993
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei
I'm not sure you understand dualism, or I don't. One of those.

or both or neither.
Since from my perspective dualism exists depending only on imputation and imputation is individual we may apply slightly different concepts ... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei
Quadism, isn't Dualism.
I do not know the term "quadism".

Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei
Dualism can be dissected to, but I'm not dissecting in this topic. I'm looking at perceptions being guided by a dualistic mind set, or perceptions guided by a mind set that doesn't naturally capture things in basics and opposites.
In my philosophical system there is perception and there are the psycho-mental effects of perception. But as soon as some X is perceived it is necessarily perceived as being different from non-X. Now this dualism can be perceived as being inherent in X and non-X or it can be perceived as being merely caused by imputation. But knowing that it is merely caused by imputation does not make the dualism "X <> non-X" go away, i.e. one is still able to differentiate between X and non-X but knowing that it is merely caused by imputation removes the psycho-mental effects of perceiving the dualism "X <> non-X" as if existing inherently.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 23-12-2016, 01:52 PM
Moonglow Moonglow is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 3,591
  Moonglow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei
I loved this response!

Does this represent my disliking of other responses?

Hi WuWei,

To answer the question would say your response just expresses that you loved the response I gave.

Whether you dislike or like the other responses is for you to decide or not.

In reading your responses to the other responses given, I get the feeling you enjoy the discussion. But that is just my take on it.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 23-12-2016, 05:30 PM
William 辰 William 辰 is offline
Knower
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 168
 
Two questions I have to non-dualistic people:

1) Can you tell me where both positive and negative emotions come from without using the word 'mind'? (for example physical [..] / non-physical [..])

2) Do you see yourself as being separate from 'lifeless objects'? Yes or no, and why?
__________________
Why follow trends when you've got style?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 23-12-2016, 05:43 PM
WuWei WuWei is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 63
  WuWei's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by William 辰
Two questions I have to non-dualistic people:

1) Can you tell me where both positive and negative emotions come from without using the word 'mind'? (for example physical [..] / non-physical [..])

2) Do you see yourself as being separate from 'lifeless objects'? Yes or no, and why?

negative emotions tend to be associated, very certainly with cortisol. For instance, if you have an over-active adrenal gland you will be experiencing physical stress which then translates into emotions later. There is also proof that physiological states between anxiety and excitement, what you would consider opposites - are identical, and it leads current neurology to the hypothesis that our physiological experiences are contextualised by our brain's neo-cortex activity and our personal memories, how we attribute those to certain physiological responses.

I am lifeless objects which have combined in such a way to create the experience of my body. Carbon atoms are lifeless, I am made out of those, but I'm not lifeless. Life is made out of non-life, and vice versa.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 23-12-2016, 06:34 PM
n2mec n2mec is offline
Seeker
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 37
 
Surprised, having a verbal or written dialog in the non existence, consciousness at play making something out of nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 23-12-2016, 11:12 PM
Ground Ground is offline
Suspended
Ascender
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 993
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by n2mec
Surprised, having a verbal or written dialog in the non existence, consciousness at play making something out of nothing.
Well next time you go shopping you certainly will buy something made out of nothing
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 23-12-2016, 11:40 PM
William 辰 William 辰 is offline
Knower
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 168
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei
negative emotions tend to be associated, very certainly with cortisol. For instance, if you have an over-active adrenal gland you will be experiencing physical stress which then translates into emotions later. There is also proof that physiological states between anxiety and excitement, what you would consider opposites - are identical, and it leads current neurology to the hypothesis that our physiological experiences are contextualised by our brain's neo-cortex activity and our personal memories, how we attribute those to certain physiological responses.

I am lifeless objects which have combined in such a way to create the experience of my body. Carbon atoms are lifeless, I am made out of those, but I'm not lifeless. Life is made out of non-life, and vice versa.

I see, thank you.
__________________
Why follow trends when you've got style?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums